Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Unification]

When one has had enough self created sickness, they may choose to get to work on themselves.

You have the poor lost sheep not realizing their latent potential or desire to change.

And there is great healing in that latent potential energy within.

 

[ChristineES]

Yet Jesus said he came to heal the sick. Not minister to the well.

You have the great shepherd not going after the poor lost sheep.

Regards
DL

The Bible states that when Jesus healed people, he would tell them, afterward, "Go and sin no more".

 

[MARCELLO]

How old are you and have you ever visited an old age home and spoken to so of the older residents?

I have and saw a number of old who hated waking up to another day of nothing but eating ****ting themselves and going to sleep to just repeat the same thing again the next day.

Sure, if one has a reason for waking up, it is great to wake up. Many wake up and pray for death on that day and every day from then on just so they can stop eating and soiling themselves day after day.

I like that Canada has passed a right to die law. I can see a good number of old taking that blessing.

Regards
DL

I am 40 and that means what? I am really scared of the moment that I die, it sounds horrible. I am a human and it is perfectly normal for me to be afraid of this.

 

[Greatest I am]

Here are a few verses speaking of repenting:

Mark 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Luke 13:5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

There are a lot more, and not just in the Christian scriptures but in the Tanakh, as well.

What do you read into the kingdom of heaven is at hand?

Let me give you the Gnostic Christian Jesus' take on it and we will compare your view.

Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Do you see God's kingdom or are you, to that Jesus, living in poverty?

------------

Those quote on repentance seem to contradict the ones I know best and that show that your reliance on a barbaric human sacrifice and the immoral notion of having an innocent man take your responsibility are not required.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Note that God has paved the way and will wait for all of us to be saved. Even those who would put their responsibilities on Jesus instead of keeping them and repenting for them.

You might wonder why you would take the immoral path when this moral one exists.

I urge you to, ---- 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

I am here to show you the good and have you drop your evil way if you feel like testing your way.

Regards
DL

 

[Unification]

How old are you and have you ever visited an old age home and spoken to so of the older residents?

I have and saw a number of old who hated waking up to another day of nothing but eating ****ting themselves and going to sleep to just repeat the same thing again the next day.

Sure, if one has a reason for waking up, it is great to wake up. Many wake up and pray for death on that day and every day from then on just so they can stop eating and soiling themselves day after day.

I like that Canada has passed a right to die law. I can see a good number of old taking that blessing.

Regards
DL

How are your bedside manners to them?

Sure, the physical body dying can be a blessing.

I am 40 and that means what? I am really scared of the moment that I die, it sounds horrible. I am a human and it is perfectly normal for me to be afraid of this.

Were you afraid of being born?

 

[Greatest I am]

When one has had enough self created sickness, they may choose to get to work on themselves.

You have the poor lost sheep not realizing their latent potential or desire to change.

What the lost sheep do or do not know or realize of their situation is of no importance to the great shepherd who says he will drop everything to go get the lost one. To him, his actions are what is important. Not just what a foolish sheep might be doing.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

The Bible states that when Jesus healed people, he would tell them, afterward, "Go and sin no more".

Eh. Yes.

And what was your point?

Scriptures say we are to forgive 7 x 70 times or some such thing. Jesus seems to think we will fall off the wagon more than once before fully cured.

Remember the longsuffering patience.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Regards
DL

 

[Unification]

What the lost sheep do or do not know or realize of their situation is of no importance to the great shepherd who says he will drop everything to go get the lost one. To him, his actions are what is important. Not just what a foolish sheep might be doing.

Regards
DL

Not everyone is a sheep, not everyone wants to be found or are ready to be found, not in this life. Him is not a skydaddy or "his" actions.

 

[Greatest I am]

I am 40 and that means what? I am really scared of the moment that I die, it sounds horrible. I am a human and it is perfectly normal for me to be afraid of this.

You missed the point. They did not fear death. They craved it.

Why do you fear death? if it leads to something good then good. If it leads to nothing, then that in a sense is also good as there is no suffering. If it leads to suffering then God is a prick and there is nothing you can do but kiss his *** on the way to hell where you can justly curse the prick forever.

Here is why I used that word. Just to have you hear this song. Check out the band.

Regards
DL

 

[ChristineES]

Eh. Yes.

And what was your point?

Scriptures say we are to forgive 7 x 70 times or some such thing. Jesus seems to think we will fall off the wagon more than once before fully cured.

Remember the longsuffering patience.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Regards
DL

Do you think we need to forgive those who are not sorry? I, personally, forgive people even if they are not sorry. I forgave a woman who threw a pair of jeans in my face because her card kept being rejected (I ran it three times). I assumed, since it was about 11 pm, that she was just tired. But are we required to forgive those who are not sorry?

 

[Greatest I am]

How are your bedside manners to them?

Not bad on the short term.

I think I would get quite depressed if I had to work in that environment on a steady basis.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Do you think we need to forgive those who are not sorry? I, personally, forgive people even if they are not sorry. I forgave a woman who threw a pair of jeans in my face because her card kept being rejected (I ran it three times). I assumed, since it was about 11 pm, that she was just tired. But are we required to forgive those who are not sorry?

Required?
No.

Well advised too?
Yes.

Closure is as healthy for the victim as the criminal or sinner.

To hold a grudge would certainly cause pain for a long time if we keep it inside.

That is why Jesus' forgiveness policy is a fail.

Scriptures say that forgiveness is the Lords but I say that the first dibs belong to the one hurt as his healing relies on his forgiveness. That is the Jewish way and as in many cases it is superior to what Christians get from the Jew written bible.

God does not need healing as he cannot be hurt.

Listen to that song above and see that God should be seeking our forgiveness and not us seeking his.

Regards
DL

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

No
As it's unlikely that this is the way things really are.
To suggest God exists is one giant leap to then go on and describe traits of said God huh .
Sometimes people in history have written bible passages thinking they themselves a God .
From the evidence I see God doesn't seem capable of making the distinction

 

[Greatest I am]

No
As it's unlikely that this is the way things really are.
To suggest God exists is one giant leap to then go on and describe traits of said God huh .
Sometimes people in history have written bible passages thinking they themselves a God .
From the evidence I see God doesn't seem capable of making the distinction

No argument.

The ancients may have known that and that may be why the Jewish verbal tradition can overrule the Jewish written one.

It is hard to see today but Jews and their Divine Council says that the never believed in a supernatural God.

That is why we Gnostic Christians favor their theology of the supremacy of man while Christianity gave their birth rite of freedom away for one of slavery to an invisible absentee God.

Regards
DL

 

[Thief]

god doesn't intervene though, god punishes after the fact, so god does stand back and watch.

I kinda thought.....we end up with others just like ourselves.

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?

 

[Thief]

Do you mean that God possesses sovereignty because he can punish us for breaking his rules, or is this ability something extra to his sovereignty ?
Do I ought to follow God's commandment strictly because he can punish me ?

and it is written.....
you are not defiled by what goes into your mouth...
you are defiled by what comes out....

that puts you on the pivot point.

 

[Sees]

No argument.

The ancients may have known that and that may be why the Jewish verbal tradition can overrule the Jewish written one.

It is hard to see today but Jews and their Divine Council says that the never believed in a supernatural God.

That is why we Gnostic Christians favor their theology of the supremacy of man while Christianity gave their birth rite of freedom away for one of slavery to an invisible absentee God.

Regards
DL

Seems about the opposite of Gnostic Christian worldview. Quite surprised you claim that title associates with the ideas you share here.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

Yes. God is the ultimate moral authority in the universe. In a sense, it is you being judged by You. You ask the question and it is YOU as the Judge. What could be fairer ?

 

[psychoslice]

Morals are only a human constructs, God if he did exist wouldn't be under any such thing, he would only do what he wanted to do and we have to except that, but for me we are free from that, as I don't believe in god.

 

[Etritonakin]

The longest unambiguously documented human lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France (1875–1997), who died at age 122 years,

I do not assume that most will be lost to hell. I read the scriptures that say that most will take the wide road to hell while only the few will take the narrow path to heaven.

If you are to use the Jewish Gehenna then do you also follow Jewish teachings that Satan, or Ha-shaitan is not evil but just God's best angel doing his work?

Regards
DL

Sounds like about 120 years then -as opposed to many hundreds lived by Methuselah, etc.... Maybe if it was 122 years, 164 days written in the bible, more people would believe it

I think you would benefit from reading other scriptures on the subject and merging them.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

I use the Gehenna used here....
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Satan chooses to do evil. The fact that God allows it temporarily for a purpose -and will eventually undo the evil -does not make it good.