Is it wrong if you want to know a partners or potential partner's biological/original gender?

[Poeticus]

Hold up...I was being sarcastic, homey.

It's all good, gurrl.

*puts pillows down for a moment*


Listen, you see this following girl?:

I would make love to her for hours non-stop Tantric style. Guess what, she's a trans-female.

But, I can't: because according to my religion, it is my Dharma to marry a female from my tribe. One night stands are also forbidden.

Does this mean that people shouldn't have sexual escapades? No. I will support their right to fornicate before my right to marry a female from my tribe in Gujarat, India. This is also my Dharma.

 

[DallasApple]

Do we educate? Or do we just stay quiet and let them keep thinking this? Are we afraid to stir the pot? Or can we keep educating and bringing awareness to the issue and for the equality of transgendered people?

I'm always a fan of education .I guess my mind does a "flip" though on this particular topic.Because I don't see someone choosing not to have sex with you as a violation of your rights.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Exactly.And ?If all that belief results in is him choosing to not engage in sex with a trans female and he minds his own business otherwise what difference does it make?

It perpetuates transphobia in the entire culture.

If a black man would refuse to have sex with white women because his personal belief is we are a different species..and ALL the belief results in is him living his personal life not having sex with white women ,why would we try and change his personal beliefs ?Who is he hurting in any practical meaningful way by not having sex with white women?

His position is one coming from ignorance. I don't support perpetuating ignorance and racism.

No matter how ridiculous his beliefs are and no matter how many people know we are the same species why does it matter if the only outcome of that he doesn't have sex with white women.

Well, apparently you're bringing in an example that doesn't happen as often, is not as pervasive, and is not as institutionally supported as transphobia. But I disagree that the only outcome is that he doesn't have sex with white women. I'm sure the man might be outspoken in his beliefs, votes his conscience, and mentors future generations, too. Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[Poeticus]

Remember though, the thread was about casual sex, in hind sight.

My b. I totally overlooked that. I thought we started talking about long-term relationships. Yeah. My b, homies.

If you do the one-night stand, you better be prepared for stuff hittin' the fan!

 

[DallasApple]

What do we call he cis hetero men that have no issue at all having sex with a trans female>>>>

Equal opportunity *****'rs

 

[Poeticus]

What do we call he cis hetero men that have no issue at all having sex with a trans female>>>>

Equal opportunity *****'rs

If I wasn't bound by certain promises that I made upon my initiation into my Hindu sect, I wouldn't give a rat's a** about having sexcapades with females like Jamie Clayton (the trans-gendered female in that photo above).

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My b. I totally overlooked that. I thought we started talking about long-term relationships. Yeah. My b, homies.

If you do the one-night stand, you better be prepared for stuff hittin' the fan!

Exactly.

 

[DallasApple]

It perpetuates transphobia in the entire culture.

How so if its only a personal belief that you do not try and convince others of?If you are fine if others believe differently?And the only action you take on that belief is an inaction .A.K.A not having sex with a trans female.

 

[Poeticus]

Let's do a consensus, folks:

Most of us agree that according to the facts provided by science, trans-females are females, correct?

Now, the following is what I have a problem understanding:

Is it wrong if you want to know a partners or potential partner's biological/original gender?

What does the OP mean by "potential partner"?

 

[michel]

Consider the following situation:

Two people are at a social gathering. One, call her Shirley, is an transgender woman, the other is a straight cis-male, call him Tom. Tom approaches Shirley, believing that she is a cis-female. They flirt and Tom takes Shirley back to his place where they end up in bed together, and eventually consent to intercourse.

Later on, Tom learns through a mutual friend, John, that Shirley is in fact a transgender woman, and was assigned male gender at birth. After that, Tom is angry, and refuses to approach Shirley. He claims he feels "violated" and was was “deceived”, and it was “unethical”, because if he’d known she was trans, he would not have consented to intercourse.

My questions:

1. Was Tom wrong to suddenly reject Shirley on the basis that she is transgender?
2. Should Shirley be obligated to tell Tom her birth gender before consent?
3. Is it wrong for cisgender individuals to only prefer other cisgender individuals, to the exclusion of transgender people?

If you could explain why you answered the way that you did, that would be helpful.

Also you could imagine the situation mentioned above in reverse, but I don't think the answer should be different.

I was thinking about how to answer your question; you'll have to excuse me for being naïve - I suppose that my personality type ( and age) have shielded me from much of the "world of transsexuals", but I smiled wryly when I thought that I could answer the question with the same answer that I would have answered had the question been:-
" Two people are at a social gathering. One, call her Shirley, is a married woman, the other is a single male, call him Tom. Tom approaches Shirley, believing that she is "unattached". They flirt and Tom takes Shirley back to his place where they end up in bed together, and eventually consent to intercourse.

Later on, Tom learns through a mutual friend, John, that Shirley is in fact a married woman. After that, Tom is angry, and refuses to approach Shirley. He claims he feels "violated" and was “deceived”, and it was “unethical”, because if he’d known she was married, he would not have consented to intercourse.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Consider men in general.

I think that would mostly depend on the culture we're talking about. I don't have enough info about this particular issue to suggest that men in the U.S. (if we consider that the hypothetical takes place there) would generally lean one way or the other.

And there you go again...
I am starting to lose hope on you.

Just to confirm: now you are saying that Tom is a bigot for refusing to have sex with a trans woman, right?

If it makes no difference at all and he considers being trans a reason in and of itself not to have sex with Shirley? Yes, I think that's bigotry.

 

[DallasApple]

Let's do a consensus, folks:

Most of us agree that according to the facts provided by science, trans-females are females, correct?

Now, the following is what I have a problem understanding:



What does the OP mean by "potential partner"?

A "potential" partner is someone you are considering "partnering" up with.I suppose either for 'just sex" one time all the way up to a life long mate.

 

[Poeticus]

A "potential" partner is someone you are considering "partnering" up with.I suppose either for 'just sex" one time all the way up to a life long mate.

So, in the case of a "potential" partner (long-term mate), it would be alright to want to know that "potential" partner's biological/original gender, correct?

I get the feeling that the OP messed up the name of the thread with what he wrote in the OP.

 

[Penumbra]

I'm always a fan of education .I guess my mind does a "flip" though on this particular topic.Because I don't see someone choosing not to have sex with you as a violation of your rights.

Unless I missed it, which may be the case, I don't see where anyone said it would be a violation of anyone's rights to not want to have sex with someone.

I feel like people are making very specific statements, and then others are kind of turning those statements into something entirely different, and commenting on those changed-statements, rather than confining themselves to the point that was actually made.

How so if its only a personal belief that you do not try and convince others of?If you are fine if others believe differently?And the only action you take on that belief is an inaction .A.K.A not having sex with a trans female.

Not much that can be done about that, but I wouldn't validate it by proposing that ethics have to based around their personal beliefs if those beliefs cannot be coherently explained.

 

[DallasApple]

So, in the case of a "potential" partner (long-term mate),

But a potential partner can also be someone you are thinking about just having sex for the night with..

The part that threw me off though..was if that is how the relationship what framed for this OP what difference does it make to Shirley that Tom "refused to approach her.I think the OP said they had met that night.IOW they had zero relationship before.And if it was a "one night stand" there would be no reason to ever approach her again anyway.

 

[Poeticus]

Anybody ever had a chance to watch Season 3 of Hung? Clayton is the one on the left:

Small picture, but Clayton is the one on the far right:

 

[Poeticus]

But a potential partner can also be someone you are thinking about just having sex for the night with..

I know, Dallas. I was just giving the side of long-term - that's why I put it in brackets.

The part that through me off though..was if that is how the relationship what framed for this OP what difference does it make to Shirley that Tom "refused to approach her.I think the OP said they had met that night.IOW they had zero relationship before.And if it was a "one night stand" there would be no reason to ever approach her again anyway.

Which is why I am confused now with the title of the thread along with what is being asked in the OP.

 

[DallasApple]

I feel like people are making very specific statements, and then others are kind of turning those statements into something entirely different, and commenting on those changed-statements, rather than confining themselves to the point that was actually made.

Well I have been the "victim" of that too in this thread.Sorry if I came off that way.

But to clarify why I said that..is Heather mentioned "equality" for trans sexuals and this thread is about men choosing not to have sex with trans sexuals because they are trans sexuals. And I guess when I think of equality I think more about equal rights.Like I have the right NOT to be raped..I have the "right' not to be refused of job just because I'm a female..(for the most part anyway like I can see not being hired because Im a female to be a male stripper LOL)...So I'm trying to incorporate what anyone choosing to not have sex with me (which is what this thread is about not me..but you know what I mean) has anything to do with some sort of violation of my rights or illegal discrimination against me.

Hope that makes sense and sorry if I came across and trying to put words in any one else's mouth.

 

[Poeticus]

I was thinking about how to answer your question; you'll have to excuse me for being naïve - I suppose that my personality type ( and age) have shielded me from much of the "world of transsexuals", but I smiled wryly when I thought that I could answer the question with the same answer that I would have answered had the question been:-
" Two people are at a social gathering. One, call her Shirley, is a married woman, the other is a single male, call him Tom. Tom approaches Shirley, believing that she is "unattached". They flirt and Tom takes Shirley back to his place where they end up in bed together, and eventually consent to intercourse.

Later on, Tom learns through a mutual friend, John, that Shirley is in fact a married woman. After that, Tom is angry, and refuses to approach Shirley. He claims he feels "violated" and was “deceived”, and it was “unethical”, because if he’d known she was married, he would not have consented to intercourse.

Penumbra,

What is your take on this? Just replace the race metaphor with the one described above.

 

[Penumbra]

Penumbra,

What is your take on this? Just replace the race metaphor with the one described above.

I already addressed marriage several times in this thread.