Is the Arab World's explusion of Jews news to you?

[Tumah]

I mean, I confirm my understanding that you've nothing about Jesus-Christ

Its a matter of debate among scholars. There is mention of a Yeshu (which fits the name Jesus) having some students, some of whose names are similar to the disciples. And he's hung on the eve of Passover. But there's some differences. So its either not the same Jesus, or the Rabbis had a different tradition than the NT about what actually happened.

 

[Flankerl]

If Islam is spread due to conquering, then Islam would have been dominant in Europe

Turns out white people are the Gods of War and left you behind in the dust.

 

[icehorse]

The Arabic/Islamic army in the 7th century opened the northern coast of Africa only Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco but you'll find Muslims in almost all over Africa til the far south.

I believe I've heard the word "open" being used before in this context. It's a transparent euphemism and I don't think you're fooling anyone. We all know that Muslims "opened" Africa with the sword.

 

[Limo]

Every single word you wrote here is completely irrelevant. You said the Muslims were not imperialistic, yet they were as we've demonstrated. You said they weren't taking people's wealth, which they were. Whether it was the best deal or the worst deal, they were doing exactly what you said they weren't. Which is why I asked you if you were joking.

Normal to disagree

 

[Limo]

Turns out white people are the Gods of War and left you behind in the dust.

Although I mean the countries that have been opened by Othmanies like Greece, Serbia , Romania , Bulgaria,, but your comment is racist.

We Muslims are from all races/colors/geography including white people.
I'm proud by African, Asians Muslims as well as white people Muslims.

I was wondering, how a Jew is proud by White people war history ?

As a return (others forgive me).
We didn't left your Gods of War behind in dust but in graves as we respectably bury our enemies. You'll find your Gods of war graves in all middle east, eastern and central Europe, and around the Mediterranean, also don't forget crusaders remains in Palestine.

My regards to your Gods of war.

 

[Limo]

Its a matter of debate among scholars. There is mention of a Yeshu (which fits the name Jesus) having some students, some of whose names are similar to the disciples. And he's hung on the eve of Passover. But there's some differences. So its either not the same Jesus, or the Rabbis had a different tradition than the NT about what actually happened.

If you mean "Yeshu the sorcerer", in my openion this is the last one who can be considered from the list Yeshu's.

 

[LuisDantas]

I stand flabbergasted. There is something almost admirable in this level of persistence despite a complete lack of arguments.

 

[Limo]

Its a matter of debate among scholars. There is mention of a Yeshu (which fits the name Jesus) having some students, some of whose names are similar to the disciples. And he's hung on the eve of Passover. But there's some differences. So its either not the same Jesus, or the Rabbis had a different tradition than the NT about what actually happened.

I dug more in Yeshu in Talmud.
I think the most possible Yeshu is "Son of Pantiri / Pandera"

I don't know, how accurate these references and translation from Hebrew but the interesting part is that his mother's name is "Miriam" , same as in Quran.

• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "Was he the son of Stara (and not) the son of Pandera?" (Editions or MSs: Oxford 23, Soncino)
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "Was he the son of Stara (and not) the son of Pandera?" (Editions or MSs: Herzog 1, Karlsruhe 2, ... )
• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "husband Stada, lover Pandera" (Editions or MSs: Vatican 108, Munich 95, Vilna )
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "husband Stara, lover Pandera" (Editions or MSs: Herzog 1, Barco)
• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "husband Pappos, mother Stada" (Editions or MSs: Vilna, Munich 95 )
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "husband Pappos, mother Stada" (Editions or MSs: Vilna, Munich 95)
• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "his mother Miriam who let grow (her) women's hair" (Editions or MSs: Vilna, Oxford 23, Soncino)
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "his mother Miriam who let grow (her) women's hair" (Editions or MSs: Karlsruhe 2, Munich 95)

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is the problem. You didn't study the current or history of the area deeply.
Arab as a race were/are/will be minority. All Middle east is Arabic from language and culture perspective but not as a race.
So, Majority of people living in Persia are not from Arabic original race. They are Persian who chose Islam.
Yes, they chose Islam because of tolerance, polite discourse, true religion, make sense religion. For your Info Iran is not even an Arabic speaking country.

First, I'm well aware Iran is not an Arab-majority or speaking country. I didn't say it was - I was referring to Islam the religion in that sentence, not Arab ethnicity.

Second, I doubt that. I suspect they chose Islam because Zoroastrians were sick of being subjected to discriminatory taxes & laws imposed on them by their Muslim rulers simply because they were non-Muslims; and that they were sick of the resulting impoverishment. Around 930 AD for example, a law was passed that said all government bureaucrats had to be Muslim - effectively shutting non-Muslims out of governance. That would have put pressure on Zoroastrians to convert in order to be able to have any kind of influence in society.

Same for Egyptian, Majority is from Pharaohs race. They chose Islam. They used Arabic as a language and living Arabic culture.

Same for the Egyptians (though I'll admit I thought they were mostly Arabs, thanks for disproving that); they 'chose' Islam the same way they 'chose Christianity i.e. they were pressured into converting by discriminating authorities and tax burdens.

Same north African Berbers or Amazighs in North Africa.
All these countries are not Arabic Race, they are Arabic language and culture. They're the local people.

Some may have chosen Islam but I'm willing to bet everything that plenty did not and were either pressured to convert or outright forced to by their rulers.

What about Malaysia, Indonesia, Nigeria, Mali, Somalia, Chad,,,, non Arabic Islamic countries. Arabs were never their as governor but visitors.

These countries may be instances of Islam spreading peacefully or maybe not; I'm not that aware of these nations' respective histories. However that doesn't defeat the argument that Islam spread as a result of military conquests elsewhere.

 

[Flankerl]

Although I mean the countries that have been opened by Othmanies like Greece, Serbia , Romania , Bulgaria,

Yeah yeah the Roman and Sassanid Empires surely needed a Muslim opening. They were completely closed off societies if we just ignore the Silk Road.

Everyone was so glad that the Muslims came around and made them second class people.

, but your comment is racist.
We Muslims are from all races/colors/geography including white people.
I'm proud by African, Asians Muslims as well as white people Muslims.

Good for you. Yet your Caliphate will never exist. Such is life.

I was wondering, how a Jew is proud by White people war history ?

I stated a fact. If you can't distinguish that from being proud of something...

As a return (others forgive me).
We didn't left your Gods of War behind in dust but in graves as we respectably bury our enemies. You'll find your Gods of war graves in all middle east, eastern and central Europe, and around the Mediterranean, also don't forget crusaders remains in Palestine.

My regards to your Gods of war.

Please take up a dictionary. Thanks.

Babylonian Shabbat 104b "Was he the son of Stara (and not) the son of Pandera?" (Editions or MSs: Oxford 23, Soncino)

Sure you wanna use that passage?

It was taught in a baraita that Rabbi Eliezer said to the Rabbis: Didn’t the infamous ben Stada take magic spells out of Egypt in a scratch on his flesh? They said to him: He was a fool, and you cannot cite proof from a fool. That is not the way that most people write. Incidentally, the Gemara asks: Why did they call him ben Stada, when he was the son of Pandeira? Rav Ḥisda said: His mother’s husband, who acted as his father, was named Stada, but the one who had relations with his mother and fathered him was named Pandeira. The Gemara asks: Wasn’t his mother’s husband Pappos ben Yehuda? Rather, his mother was named Stada and he was named ben Stada after her. The Gemara asks: But wasn’t his mother Miriam, who braided women’s hair? The Gemara explains: That is not a contradiction. Rather, Stada was merely a nickname, as they say in Pumbedita: This one strayed [setat da] from her husband.

Strayed is a nice way of saying "cheated".
Polemic is such a fun way to deal with the Christians when they can murder you on a whim.

 

[Limo]

Yeah yeah the Roman and Sassanid Empires surely needed a Muslim opening. They were completely closed off societies if we just ignore the Silk Road.

Everyone was so glad that the Muslims came around and made them second class people.

No need to ask for help. Muslims will do voluntary. It's our mission.
One companion told the Persian king "We just came to take people from worshiping a human to worship the Lord of all"

Good for you. Yet your Caliphate will never exist. Such is life.

Why you're so sure. I promise in less than 10 years, if you're alive.
Al-Masseh will help in establish it.

I stated a fact. If you can't distinguish that from being proud of something...

What a fact !!!
Is it a fact because you say it ?

Please take up a dictionary. Thanks.

With my pleasure, rephrased :

• If your Gods of war leave their enemies in dust, we left your Gods of war in graves
• You can find graves of your Gods of war in all Middle East, around Mediterranean, Central and Eastern Europe, Crusaders remains in Palestine
• My regards to the remains of your Gods of war

Is it clear now ?

Sure you wanna use that passage?

It was taught in a baraita that Rabbi Eliezer said to the Rabbis: Didn’t the infamous ben Stada take magic spells out of Egypt in a scratch on his flesh? They said to him: He was a fool, and you cannot cite proof from a fool. That is not the way that most people write. Incidentally, the Gemara asks: Why did they call him ben Stada, when he was the son of Pandeira? Rav Ḥisda said: His mother’s husband, who acted as his father, was named Stada, but the one who had relations with his mother and fathered him was named Pandeira. The Gemara asks: Wasn’t his mother’s husband Pappos ben Yehuda? Rather, his mother was named Stada and he was named ben Stada after her. The Gemara asks: But wasn’t his mother Miriam, who braided women’s hair? The Gemara explains: That is not a contradiction. Rather, Stada was merely a nickname, as they say in Pumbedita: This one strayed [setat da] from her husband.

Strayed is a nice way of saying "cheated".
Polemic is such a fun way to deal with the Christians when they can murder you on a whim.

I want use nothing. It's not my battle. I was just asking a question.

Anyway, I see it as if someone is destrying the image of someone who is dangerous

If this is about Al-Maseh Isa Ibn Mariam, It's a group of lies but the only truth in it is Al-Maseh's mother's name "Miriam"
Regards

 

[Tumah]

If you mean "Yeshu the sorcerer", in my openion this is the last one who can be considered from the list Yeshu's.

Your opinion has 0 weight in my book.

 

[Tumah]

I dug more in Yeshu in Talmud.
I think the most possible Yeshu is "Son of Pantiri / Pandera"

I don't know, how accurate these references and translation from Hebrew but the interesting part is that his mother's name is "Miriam" , same as in Quran.

• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "Was he the son of Stara (and not) the son of Pandera?" (Editions or MSs: Oxford 23, Soncino)
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "Was he the son of Stara (and not) the son of Pandera?" (Editions or MSs: Herzog 1, Karlsruhe 2, ... )
• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "husband Stada, lover Pandera" (Editions or MSs: Vatican 108, Munich 95, Vilna )
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "husband Stara, lover Pandera" (Editions or MSs: Herzog 1, Barco)
• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "husband Pappos, mother Stada" (Editions or MSs: Vilna, Munich 95 )
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "husband Pappos, mother Stada" (Editions or MSs: Vilna, Munich 95)
• Babylonian Shabbat 104b "his mother Miriam who let grow (her) women's hair" (Editions or MSs: Vilna, Oxford 23, Soncino)
• Babylonian Sanhedrin 67a "his mother Miriam who let grow (her) women's hair" (Editions or MSs: Karlsruhe 2, Munich 95)

That's not so interesting. Mary came to the English from Hebrew through the Latinized version of the name.
Mary (name) - Wikipedia

 

[Limo]

First, I'm well aware Iran is not an Arab-majority or speaking country. I didn't say it was - I was referring to Islam the religion in that sentence, not Arab ethnicity.

Second, I doubt that. I suspect they chose Islam because Zoroastrians were sick of being subjected to discriminatory taxes & laws imposed on them by their Muslim rulers simply because they were non-Muslims; and that they were sick of the resulting impoverishment. Around 930 AD for example, a law was passed that said all government bureaucrats had to be Muslim - effectively shutting non-Muslims out of governance. That would have put pressure on Zoroastrians to convert in order to be able to have any kind of influence in society.




Same for the Egyptians (though I'll admit I thought they were mostly Arabs, thanks for disproving that); they 'chose' Islam the same way they 'chose Christianity i.e. they were pressured into converting by discriminating authorities and tax burdens.




Some may have chosen Islam but I'm willing to bet everything that plenty did not and were either pressured to convert or outright forced to by their rulers.



These countries may be instances of Islam spreading peacefully or maybe not; I'm not that aware of these nations' respective histories. However that doesn't defeat the argument that Islam spread as a result of military conquests elsewhere.

Allow me to ask you a question,

Which one is better ?

• being non-Muslim
  • Pay fixed amount of dirhams (2-4)
    
  • Drink wine
  • Do sex freely if it's allowed
  • No army service
  • No prayer, no fasting
  • If I agree with you, No governmental job
  • If you've an issue with same religion, your judge will be from yours no Sharia Law
• Be Muslim
  • Pay 2.5% of your wealth
  • No wine, no sex outside marriage, full abide to Sharia laws
    
  • Army service
  • Prayer, fasting, Haj,,,,

Indonesia, Malaysia, All sub-Sahara African countries chose Islam Sunny, same Islam in Makkah without opening of Islamic Army

Don't forget to answer the question?
Regards

 

[Limo]

Your opinion has 0 weight in my book.

No problem.
Everyone has his own books

 

[Limo]

That's not so interesting. Mary came to the English from Hebrew through the Latinized version of the name.
Mary (name) - Wikipedia

I understand
Sure, It's not interested at all for you

 

[Limo]

I was wondering Where are Christians comments on discussion about Jesus in Judaic documents ?

Interesting notice : once our Jews colleagues speak, Christians disappear

It worth to create an OP to resolve the node in tongue

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Allow me to ask you a question,

Which one is better ?

• being non-Muslim
  • Pay fixed amount of dirhams (2-4)
    
  • Drink wine
  • Do sex freely if it's allowed
  • No army service
  • No prayer, no fasting
  • If I agree with you, No governmental job
  • If you've an issue with same religion, your judge will be from yours no Sharia Law
• Be Muslim
  • Pay 2.5% of your wealth
  • No wine, no sex outside marriage, full abide to Sharia laws
    
  • Army service
  • Prayer, fasting, Haj,,,,

Indonesia, Malaysia, All sub-Sahara African countries chose Islam Sunny, same Islam in Makkah without opening of Islamic Army

Don't forget to answer the question?
Regards

According to that list? Being a non-Muslim, hands down. Now let me do the same thing but in reverse.

Which one is better?

• being non-Muslim
  • You're lucky if your religion is even recognised by your rulers;
  • Having to put up with Muslims vandalising or destroying your place of worship;
  • Extra tax burdens placed on you (jizyah);
  • Arbitrary removal of civic responsibilities (such as military service) in exchange for this extra tax;
  • Being forced to walk on the opposite side of the street from Muslims because you're unclean;
  • Being segregated from Muslims purely because you're non-Muslim;
  • Being at risk of false accusations of 'blasphemy' which could lead to harm or even death of you/your loved ones (see above link);
  • If you're a polytheist you get no religious freedom under Muslim rule;
  • Expect to be blamed for society's ills;
  • If you're an atheist, expect to be treated as a deviant with all the negative baggage that term carries in a society which so highly prizes conformity;
  • If slavery is legal in your country, you can't own Muslim slaves but Muslims can enslave you (my issue here isn't with people not being able to own slaves - my issue is with parity before the law);
  • Muslims can take part in governance but you cannot (e.g. Persia);
  • If you're an ex-Muslim you'll likely face punishment up to & including death for leaving Islam;
  • At risk of having land confiscated and given to Muslims (again, Persia);
  • If you enter a dispute with a Muslim a sharia judge will be more likely to find in their favour even though Islamic law shouldn't apply to you;
  • Your rulers heap further humiliation on you when it comes time to pay the jizyah;
  • If you refuse to pay the jizyah then Muslims are legally permitted to use force (legal or physical) against you for not obeying Islamic law until you capitulate;

• being Muslim
  • You enjoy religious freedom - usually the state recognises your faith as the land's official religion;
  • Your faith is exclusive & supremacist - if you vandalise or destroy a pagan temple you're unlikely to be charged (criminally or financially) for its destruction;
  • You enjoy greater rights than non-Muslims because of your faith - you don't have to pay humiliating taxes, nor are you stigmatised as being _______ worshippers but you're free to misrepresent faiths you may be ignorant of (e.g. calling Christians polytheists);
  • You're free to hate the Jews and few will question it but if anybody hates you that's Islamophobia because they can't possibly have a reason for it;
  • You can revise your history to whitewash historical Muslims and demonise non-Muslims and few, if any, will question it;
  • You can engage in pagan practices such as circumambulating a stone in a Pagan temple and nobody will question it - but you can call anything that isn't a Muslim practise 'pagan' and nobody will bat an eye;
  • If slavery is legal in your country, it's illegal for a non-Muslim to be your master;
  • If you're a slave to a non-Muslim owner, you'll be automatically freed by converting to Islam;
  • You can take part in government over non-Muslims but they cannot take part in government over you;
  • If you don't pay zakat you don't need to worry about anyone coming to your house and threatening your family, friends or property;
  • If you really, really don't like somebody you can accuse them of blaspheming the Prophet Muhammad and they'll either be killed by the state or by an angry mob;
  • Won't be viewed as automatically immoral or unclean by society because of your faith;

Please tell me which you think is more preferable to be; non-Muslim or Muslim.

 

[Tumah]

I was wondering Where are Christians comments on discussion about Jesus in Judaic documents ?

Interesting notice : once our Jews colleagues speak, Christians disappear

It worth to create an OP to resolve the node in tongue

What do you want them to say? They curse our Rabbis and we curse their god. Its old news.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What do you want them to say? They curse our Rabbis and we curse their god. Its old news.

Where do we curse your rabbis?