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Is the Euro going to collapse?
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
And do you think there is any such danger? I have a hard time believing in that. Certainly no such danger exists outside of the most hardcore of marxist systems.
Why must I choose between two unworkable systems?
You don't have any choice...unless you choose what country to move to.
Anyway, feel free to propose a third choice or a hybrid.
The latter has given us poor results over the last decade or so.
Having politicians meddle in capitalism by choosing winners & losers, while lining their own pockets is too corrupt & dysfunctional for me.
Gimme good ole free market capitalism, with no bail-outs or stimulus....with just a pinch of intelligent regulation to keep things honest.
Actually, I don't feel that there is such a choice per se.
Capitalism, if it is the doctrine that the wealth should be allowed to be ever wealthier so that others may benefit from the ripple effect, is not to be taken seriously.
Socialism, in the marxist sense, is equally fantasious.
I don't much bother with either. I rarely think of them, really, because they seem to be so ambitious and ultimately non-existent.
What I care about is economic and social responsibility. Which means that I have little to talk about with either system.
Capitalism, if it is the doctrine that the wealth should be allowed to be ever wealthier so that others may benefit from the ripple effect, is not to be taken seriously.
Socialism, in the marxist sense, is equally fantasious.
I don't much bother with either. I rarely think of them, really, because they seem to be so ambitious and ultimately non-existent.
What I care about is economic and social responsibility. Which means that I have little to talk about with either system.
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Think that hits the nail square on the head.
Marxism is ok on paper but we are nowhere near evolved enough to employ it in day to day life,
It is the bankers that need the severe change of setting but that has to be done by global consensus, all financial centers following an agreed code of practice, yes there will always be risk in the markets and financial sectors but risk needs to be minimised, perhaps even threat of jail time for those deemed to have abused their financial institutions holdings with wickedly improper risk taking,
Making all bonuses share based and delayed by 3 years would remove great short term risk taking too.
If we can learn from bubbles in markets, how they form and burst and produce a global constitution that all financial must follow, provided the constitution is fit for purpose this type of down turn need never happen again, in the past this could have been seen as fantasy but in the modern small world its not unfeasable.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I see no reason whatsoever to believe your statement. it is an easy and defeatist line that disempowers and keeps things as they are.
Our rulers would have us believe we are incapable of ruling ourselves - don't fall for their line.
People never fundamentally change. But even if humans ever became smart & thoughtful enuf to implement
the centralized control required by Marxism, such advanced humans would also handle capitalism better.
Given the leaders we elect, it would seem we wouldn't be any good ruling ourselves either.
Besides, every country always winds up with a select few running the show....all that differs is the method of selection.
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Our elected leaders would still be our elected leaders, or replaced with other elected leaders unless you are looking for some Dear Leader type arrangement.
politicians would still be politicians.
I am not a defeatest by nature, however I am self employed and I see no reason in all fairness why the people i employ should steal what ive worked to create away from me and take equal shares, ive worked many 84 hour weeks building it while many of them worked a standard stressless 40,
You might say that wouldnt happen but history would repeat itself.
The system we have is not perfect by any means but it is fixable.
Governments in debt because they spent so much money to give people that which they had not truly earned need austerity cuts, and the people will have to deal with it.
State workers need to be trimmed and thier pay and perks brought in line with the private sector, when the economy is bad the private sector freezes pay and makes cuts, governments must do the same, the public sector will get no symathy from me if they go on strike over it and nor will most of the private sector, give any,they must take it on the chin like the private sector did.
And a universal code for banking implemented.
Thier has to be competition in society in order to feed progress imho, marxism screams stagnation and government waste, ideals i just cant get behind.
government needs to be as minimal as possible.
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dust1n
Zindīq
Jobs
Hmm. Don't know how many jobs were produced in the hedge fund / sub prime loan market.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
John Lewis Created a great store empire.
Before he Died he made every employee a partner.
Today it is an even bigger empire and equally successful
Every employee is still a partner.
The rules for working such a business model that he invented still work.
Employees are not all identical, they do not all have the same Job or same power, every one of them can be sacked including the boss.
Every one of them shares in the success.
There are a few other large partnerships, but no other that is so democratic or so successful.
It takes great faith to give everything away and set one up.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
All I know is that we just returned from vacation in Europe, and how I wish we hadn't bought ANY Euros till we got there, because while we were there, Greece exploded, and the Euro dropped significantly. We noticed the difference almost immediately in our purchasing power. By the time we left, and exchanged euros for dollars at the airport, we ended up getting a nice little sum more for the euros than when we had bought them originally - all in just two weeks.
It was very interesting. Still expensive as heck though. One thing my husband noticed is that in chains like McDonalds or Starbucks, if something was $4 in the states, it was 4 euros in Europe. Now - that was more like SIX dollars (when we first got there), so from a dollar perspective, Europe was a very expensive little venture. But hey - it got less expensive with each day after the fiasco in Greece!
It was very interesting. Still expensive as heck though. One thing my husband noticed is that in chains like McDonalds or Starbucks, if something was $4 in the states, it was 4 euros in Europe. Now - that was more like SIX dollars (when we first got there), so from a dollar perspective, Europe was a very expensive little venture. But hey - it got less expensive with each day after the fiasco in Greece!
patronsaint
the new persian empire
'save capitalism' who ever said that capitalism is worth saving?
You see the capitalism was good up until the time of nixon, after that a huge gap began to form between the people in the middle of the people at the top, where a small amount of people became way more rich than they should and everyone else was left with barely enough money to comprehend for all the spendings.
Back then when you worked for a month, you had enough money for the next 4 months. But now when you work for a month you barely have enough money for that month.
Now the only reasons that all these poor peasants put up with this is their faint hopes that if they work really really hard then they can be as rich as those people.
And now that more people are becoming aware of the corruption in this capitalism, the whole system starts to fail for the rich people who are faced with uprisings from the people
You see the capitalism was good up until the time of nixon, after that a huge gap began to form between the people in the middle of the people at the top, where a small amount of people became way more rich than they should and everyone else was left with barely enough money to comprehend for all the spendings.
Back then when you worked for a month, you had enough money for the next 4 months. But now when you work for a month you barely have enough money for that month.
Now the only reasons that all these poor peasants put up with this is their faint hopes that if they work really really hard then they can be as rich as those people.
And now that more people are becoming aware of the corruption in this capitalism, the whole system starts to fail for the rich people who are faced with uprisings from the people
patronsaint
the new persian empire
That is why we're seeing the collapse of capitalism in so many diffrent places. If god's willing a new economic order will be set that is more fair to people and rewards those with what they deserve and supports everyone in a society.
patronsaint
the new persian empire
The only thing that can save capitalism in europe and everywhere else is a huge scaled war. A war will direct the attention of the people towards survival and oway from the problems with society. It also helps the rich people to get even richer by making faftories to supply weapons, ammunition, cars, clothes, canned food and anything else needed in a war. And all that is more money for the rich and less money for the middle and lower class
Hah! Barsh! Flimshaw! Capitalism doesn't need war.
But don't give the bozos running the country any ideas.
lunakilo
Well-Known Member
Wow, this post is almost opn topic
How do all the posts about capitalism, war, socialism, democracy,... relate to the collapse or survival of the euro?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
In my view because the current Euro crisis is a crisis of capitalism.
lunakilo
Well-Known Member
Hmm I don't see how governments bailing out banks is capitalism.
But I guess that depends on your definition of capitalism.
I admit I haven't read all the previous posts thoroughly so you may have answered this all ready, but how do you figure the euro-crises is a crises of capitalism?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Because booms and busts are intrinsic to capitalism