is the islamic faith based on the intention of going to paradise ...

[gnostic]

Odd, I plainly stated that man innately can recognize good and evil.

I do it because it is right. How do I know it is right? Because it is commended and mandatory in the Qur'an.

It would be if there was an immediate and guaranteed benefit. It is done because of recognize kinship between man and acting upon the troubles of the other. This brotherhood is established for the sake of Allah.

“The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin the ma`roof (all of Islam), and forbid the munkar (all that is evil; kufr): they observe regular prayers, pay Zakat, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.” (The Holy Qur’an, 9:71)

Though, I believed that majority of Muslims, are peaceful and law-bidding people, both

There are 2 (or more) things I would like to point out.

First, as I have already stated, following the Qur'an and its teaching is all commendable and all, but if you are simply following commandment or out of fear of God or fear of hell, the "doing good deeds" it is hardly a selfless or altruistic act if you have to follow orders, whether it be from .

And yes, I believe the Qur'an (or some scriptures for non-Muslims) that it will keep a majority of the toes in line, but apparently it is not enough for others.

I have met non-Abrahamic people, who are more kindly, generous and moderate, and they "do the right things" without the whole patriarchal religious baggage that come with Abrahamic religions. They instinctively know right and wrong, and show far more restraint than even the devout Muslims or Christians that I have met.

Of course, not everyone have such instincts, but those that do prove that they are truly selfless.

Second, being devout, like praying regularly, doesn't guarantee that they will always do everything right and good.

Clear examples, are demonstrated by terrorists. They are just as fervent with their religion and about Allah, just as anyone of you here, praying regularly. They believe that they are doing something right, when they bomb fellow-Muslims at bus stop, marketplace, or even at the mosques. To them, the moderate Muslims are the ones who have been led astray, not them.

Clear examples can also be seen by non-terrorists people, like with the Danish cartoons or the school teacher-teddybear incidences, where some Muslims protesting violently in some case, and went so far as destroying properties and chanting death and punishments for either the cartoonist or the school teacher. I can understand the outrage with offensive cartoons about the prophet, but even then, that doesn't merit death or the attempts on his life.

Or the young woman, who dared to speak out against her multiple-rapists, but she ended at the high court of being penalise with flogging. The supposed Islamic clerics sanctioned such punishment upon the woman. That such spiritual leaders would call for blood would seem to me that they have crossed over the line of what is right-and-wrong. Fortunately, it was international pressure upon the former Pakistani president that had court verdict overturned.

The Qur'an may teach restraints, but apparently it is not working for those people, who show no restraints whatsoever. These people may pray 5 times a day, just as you would, but it certainly doesn't mean they will always know right from wrong.

 

[zenzero]

Friend kathyrn,

I believe that paradise is in the afterlife. And no, I don't think it's imaginary, and I don't think that it's filled with angels floating on clouds playing harps. I believe it is a dynamic, exciting, beautiful place.

For the present would like to keep the afterlife issue aside but taking the point of *belief* systems; understand that all beliefs are of the MIND and mind always is coloured or biased and so is never the transparent truth and so all paths re ways to transcend this very mind to be one with TRUTH. In oneness which is HERE-NOW there is no past or future so how can afterlife or paradise exists outside the moment one lives and so it is here now that am living in this garden of eden, in paradise.

Love & rgds

 

[Cordoba]

A believer does good to come closer to God

not to be disrespectful, but isn't that a self serving motive?

Not at all

Think of this example:

If you love your parents, you would do your best to please them. If they need help at home, or want you to drive them somewhere you would do that with pleasure

You would be doing good and at the same time expressing your love and gratitude to your parents

Right?

 

[waitasec]

A believer does good to come closer to God

and why would anyone want to come closer to god? is it not for selfish motives...to feel safe and secure?

Not at all

Think of this example:

If you love your parents, you would do your best to please them. If they need help at home, or want you to drive them somewhere you would do that with pleasure

You would be doing good and at the same time expressing your love and gratitude to your parents

Right?

anyone would (well if they have a healthy relationship with their parents). one doesn't need god in order to do good works...its done anyway regardless...

 

[Cordoba]

anyone would (well if they have a healthy relationship with their parents). one doesn't need god in order to do good works...its done anyway regardless...

Here is one difference:

Even if a believer does not have a healthy relationship with parents, it is his/her duty to take care of them

So a virtuous disbeliever may or may not take care of parents if they are not on good terms, whereas a believer would always take care of them, even if they are grumpy most of the time ...

 

[waitasec]

Here is one difference:

Even if a believer does not have a healthy relationship with parents, it is his/her duty to take care of them

that is being a bit naive, because if the parent abandoned the child, emotionally, and the child does it anyway, you still don't need god to do it.

So a virtuous disbeliever may or may not take care of parents if they are not on good terms, whereas a believer would always take care of them, even if they are grumpy most of the time ...

well because you have to. not showing respect to your parents
is a BIG no no in islam, so the intention of helping your parents is still muffled.
the act is done, but the intention is what is unclear.

 

[beenie]

that is being a bit naive, because if the parent abandoned the child, emotionally, and the child does it anyway, you still don't need god to do it.

well because you have to. not showing respect to your parents
is a BIG no no in islam, so the intention of helping your parents is still muffled.
the act is done, but the intention is what is unclear.

this is tricky, because as humans we feel a need some reward for doing good acts. it's not necessarily divine rewards, but some reward. even doing an act and enjoying the smile is getting some reward, right? so we can say that getting that person to smile is double-intended. yes, we wanted to help this person, but we also wanted the reward of the appreciation (smile).

religion can offer some a "moral code" as people, in general, tend to be selfish to a degree. if some people need this moral code to make them more selfless, then all the better.

there's a balance though. i once had someone clear ice from my car in the winter (i was extremely pregnant with one of my daughters) and i thanked her. instead of saying "you're welcome", she said, "don't thank me, i did it for God's reward". that pretty much made me feel worthless; she didn't do the act for ME (which in turn would please her God), she did it ONLY for his reward. that's where I often get confused with "intention."

 

[Gharib]

Waitasec here is what you don't get:

in order to understand the concept of 'intention' (namely that of religions) you have to be a religious person to see that doing good for the sake of God isn't about i do it because i want reward. you present this intention stuff to anyone else who is religious they will have no problem with it.

being a muslim means obeying God and in return he rewards you. so when i help someone i do it for 2 reasons
1. Allah has commanded me to do so as a follower of his laws
2. it creates love between me and the person i helped

by doing both of those, Allah in return will reward me, he created me for the purpose of Obeying Him, now by not obeying him (ie YOU) any good that you do simply because you think it is good to do it (ie. for the sake of goodness) Allah will reward you in this life, you might disagree even though islam teaches that since you are not a muslim. but if i do something good for the sake of Allah, he may reward me in this life and the hereafter too, but that also depends if i ask him to reward me on this life or the next?

so based on that, YOU help people and you get rewarded too, even though you may disagree, that is what my religion teaches and thats how i see it.

here is one example of doing things that are not for the sake of God:

Hadith Qudsi:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say:
The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [ The Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied - you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man who has studied [religious] knowledge and has taught it and who used to recite the Quran. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I studied [religious] knowledge and I taught it and I recited the Quran for Your sake. He will say: You have lied - you did but study [religious] knowledge that it might be said [of you]: He is learned. And you recited the Quran that it might be said [of you]: He is a reciter. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man whom Allah had made rich and to whom He had given all kinds of wealth. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I left no path [untrodden] in which You like money to be spent without spending in it for Your sake. He will say: You have lied - you did but do so that it might be said [of you]: He is open-handed. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.

It was related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasa'i).

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec here is what you don't get:

in order to understand the concept of 'intention' (namely that of religions) you have to be a religious person to see that doing good for the sake of God isn't about i do it because i want reward.

it sure looks like it...
religious intentions is a learned intention it is not innate...meaning it is not a lucid, clear or pure intention

you present this intention stuff to anyone else who is religious they will have no problem with it.

i disagree.
i know for a fact what my intentions are for doing a good deed
religious intentions are religious...not pure, clear or lucid..

the idea of a deity who wants you to do good deeds implies that you wouldn't do them anyway, which i have already pointed out as false...people do good deeds without god or religion.

being a muslim means obeying God and in return he rewards you. so when i help someone i do it for 2 reasons
1. Allah has commanded me to do so as a follower of his laws
2. it creates love between me and the person i helped

i would do it for reason #2...reason #1 implies you are forced to...

look at this way...
forcing a child to do their homework doesn't necessarily mean they are going to learn the lesson, however if a child wants to do their homework the lesson would be much easier to understand...
so either way the homework gets done...but one way would be beneficial the other way is a waste of time...
i cannot force my child to want to do his homework. he either does or doesn't...do you follow?
same with doing good deeds...you either want to or you don't...and if you do it simply for the sake of saving face, what is the point? a persons integrity has been compromised and it becomes muddled and ambiguous...

by doing both of those, Allah in return will reward me, he created me for the purpose of Obeying Him, now by not obeying him (ie YOU) any good that you do simply because you think it is good to do it (ie. for the sake of goodness) Allah will reward you in this life, you might disagree even though islam teaches that since you are not a muslim. but if i do something good for the sake of Allah, he may reward me in this life and the hereafter too, but that also depends if i ask him to reward me on this life or the next?

so based on that, YOU help people and you get rewarded too, even though you may disagree, that is what my religion teaches and thats how i see it.

isn't that disingenuous?

doing good deeds for a reward...not because you really want to do it for the sake of doing it...

here is one example of doing things that are not for the sake of God:

Hadith Qudsi:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say:
The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [ The Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied - you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man who has studied [religious] knowledge and has taught it and who used to recite the Quran. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I studied [religious] knowledge and I taught it and I recited the Quran for Your sake. He will say: You have lied - you did but study [religious] knowledge that it might be said [of you]: He is learned. And you recited the Quran that it might be said [of you]: He is a reciter. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man whom Allah had made rich and to whom He had given all kinds of wealth. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I left no path [untrodden] in which You like money to be spent without spending in it for Your sake. He will say: You have lied - you did but do so that it might be said [of you]: He is open-handed. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.

It was related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasa'i).

that is a great passage i must say.
it speaks clearly of when people do not follow their integrity...they are left with them selves knowing the truth that they let themselves down by not doing all they CAN do and instead taking the easy route...
this to me is hell, the regret in a persons heart of hearts...the regret that will always be with them, the regret of saying, "if i only did...."

 

[waitasec]

this is tricky, because as humans we feel a need some reward for doing good acts. it's not necessarily divine rewards, but some reward.

at least being recognized for the deed, right?
here is a story:
i have a 7 yr old son, my husbands work doesn't allow for him to be home very often, which of course makes my son hunger for time with his dad. i'm the one who takes care of him, almost as if i were a single parent. having said that, my son had a presentation in his class...i told my husband, "you better not miss this...", my son specifically told me that he would rather have his father there then me...as a mom i understand what my son means...well of course we both made it to his presentation...had to, right?
but what does my son remember? his dad was there and i was late...go figure. now as a mom i get it, as an insecure person i'm hurt. :sad:
but i'm his mom...so i go on...
now lets turn the table here...if i get old and sickly, do i expect my son to take care of me...? absolutely not...would i hold it against him if he didn't...? no way... of course if he wanted to that would be wonderful... i would never want to impose anything especially a good deed...that can only come from the heart...the sad thing is sometimes you don't get anything in return...and that is the cold hard truth of the matter...

even doing an act and enjoying the smile is getting some reward, right? so we can say that getting that person to smile is double-intended. yes, we wanted to help this person, but we also wanted the reward of the appreciation (smile).

as i said, there isn't always a reward...but when recognized it does feed our self assurance, which is entirely healthy.

religion can offer some a "moral code" as people, in general, tend to be selfish to a degree. if some people need this moral code to make them more selfless, then all the better.

but this moral code is already there, it's innate in us all...the thing religion does is to impose it by offering a reward or an ultimatum...
as i told eselam, you can not make your child want to do their homework
if they wanted to the lesson would be easier to understand, if they don't want to the lesson would probably not be understood...either way the homework gets done but the "want" is what pays off in the end...

there's a balance though. i once had someone clear ice from my car in the winter (i was extremely pregnant with one of my daughters) and i thanked her. instead of saying "you're welcome", she said, "don't thank me, i did it for God's reward". that pretty much made me feel worthless; she didn't do the act for ME (which in turn would please her God), she did it ONLY for his reward. that's where I often get confused with "intention."

kids...

 

[Bismillah]

so, if you didn't do it for allah...you wouldn't have a desire to do it?

You are saying you do things for the sake of "good", I am saying that I do things for the sake of Allah. You can look upon the things commanded by Allah as the ultimate stratification and purification of "good", so yes I am doing things for the sake of "good".

That however, does not address the point I made, that man can innately tell the difference between right and wrong.

funny, i don't need a book telling me what is right...

Odd, I plainly stated that man innately can recognize good and evil.

ok, so what's the difference between that kinship and that of a fraternity a club or a sports team...?

Are you kidding? If you asking the differences between a fraternity and a brotherhood based on humanity...

again i find it interesting that you need to be told what to recognize as kinship...other than people are your kinship...no matter what race or color or gender...

I need to be told? Obviously not, mankind is not innately evil that is the idea you are trying to inject into my statements, rather mankind is prone to stray. And many a times people forget their links with fellow man, history is only too evident of that fact.

how would you know that unless you sit in judgment and therefore assume the intentions of others?

I don't pass judgment, it is a reflection of actions. If they are filled with antipathy then I can't pass judgment on actions they don't commit. There is a lack of motivation and a disregard for those who are less fortunate.

but you said...

Yes? How does that address the point that it is superior because while any human can recognize wrong from evil, a Muslim by definition rejects evil and enjoins in God. An action triumphs a recognition.

nice maneuver...

I understand you cannot think of a higher power as anything aside from malevolent. Regardless, what I stated stands and refutes your argument for "doing things for the sake of good" that is the course of action of a Muslim.

you understand that we being human means we are all the same?

And? I have already stated that.

again, i don't need a god, doctrine or religion to inform me was is charitable and or what good deeds are

You seem to be having trouble grasping a simple concept. I agree with you on this point, I have repeated it numerous times.

and i don't seem to think my good deeds are any better than anyone else's.

There are variations according to intention. If I work at a shelter to impress friends or just to fulfill my educational requirements there is an obvious difference.

however, it seems your religious piety has given your sense of obligation to be charitable

Yes it has only reinforced self-evident truths.

an undue sense of self importance thinking that it is superior...

Wrong. I don't think my deed is superior. Rather what is superior is if one man acts and the other doesn't.

lets be clear here...i didn't
this is the context in which you accuse me of personal attacks...

I can quite plainly see the attacks where you accuse me and others of performing meritorious actions because I somehow need a "text" to do so. That is insulting.

so you actually believe one has to be forced in order to do good deeds?

Like I said, to be charitable one requires a certain mindset. Islam is that mindset.

maybe in your islamic world

No, it is logically correct you have yet to refute it.

no one is better than anyone else in our world, wouldn't you agree?

No the worth of a man is judged upon his actions.

so, only charity comes from belief in allah and a person is judged according to their deeds...

I have addressed that multiple times now, really you should get it by now.

 

[waitasec]

You are saying you do things for the sake of "good", I am saying that I do things for the sake of Allah. You can look upon the things commanded by Allah as the ultimate stratification and purification of "good", so yes I am doing things for the sake of "good".

then why is doing good for the sake of good not good enough?

That however, does not address the point I made, that man can innately tell the difference between right and wrong.

so if man, as you and i believe, can tell the difference between right and wrong, why is it not good enough to do good deeds for the sake of goodness...with out being told to do good deeds...?
either a man wants to do good or not, right? because they are able to tell the difference... my entire argument is the wanting to do good deeds for the sake of good which is, for some reason, not valid because it is not done for the sake of allah...
that is why i said i don't need a book to tell me that it is good to do good deeds...in other words, what is right

Are you kidding? If you asking the differences between a fraternity and a brotherhood based on humanity...

religion tends to divide people...wouldn't you say?

I need to be told?

you said

You can look upon the things commanded by Allah as the ultimate stratification and purification of "good"

Obviously not, mankind is not innately evil that is the idea you are trying to inject into my statements, rather mankind is prone to stray.

just as mankind is prone to stay on course...

And many a times people forget their links with fellow man, history is only too evident of that fact.

well, religion didn't make matters easier, did it?

Yes? How does that address the point that it is superior because while any human can recognize wrong from evil, a Muslim by definition rejects evil and enjoins in God. An action triumphs a recognition.

but so do non muslims...this is not an exclusively muslim trait...it is a human trait. but for some reason it is superior because it is for allah...
and i cannot see the logic of why that would be...

I understand you cannot think of a higher power as anything aside from malevolent. Regardless, what I stated stands and refutes your argument for "doing things for the sake of good" that is the course of action of a Muslim.

wrong. it is a course of action for any human being who values integrity and self respect.

Wrong. I don't think my deed is superior. Rather what is superior is if one man acts and the other doesn't.

it is still judging others...is it not?

I can quite plainly see the attacks where you accuse me and others of performing meritorious actions because I somehow need a "text" to do so. That is insulting.

it IS what you said...

You can look upon the things commanded by Allah as the ultimate stratification and purification of "good",

Like I said, to be charitable one requires a certain mindset. Islam is that mindset.

nope. humanity is that mind set...because anyone can do it with or without a command from god.

No the worth of a man is judged upon his actions.

is worth determined in the eye of the beholder...? that is a judgment no less.
or does the value one holds for integrity worth more to the individual?
in other words, individuals judging themselves and how that compares to their integrity would be more of a motive, wouldn't you say?

 

[Bismillah]

then why is doing good for the sake of good not good enough?

Again, you are differentiating between doing something for the sake of "good" and doing something for the sake of Allah. I have tried my best to explain that they are synonymous.

religion tends to divide people...wouldn't you say?

No, that is much too general of a claim.

We are getting to vague, there are many things commanded within the Qur'an. That much is obvious because it is a way of life and includes things that would go counter to our biological urges such as the urge to fornicate.

It boils down to this: Islam is superior because it is the mindset of charity. A nonbeliever may or may not act on those impulses he knows is right, a believer does.

 

[YmirGF]

A nonbeliever may or may not act on those impulses he knows is right, a believer does.

A bit of an absolute declaration, isn't it, Bismillah? Personally, I think this is puerile thinking - at its finest - as it were.

 

[Bismillah]

A bit of an absolute declaration, isn't it, Bismillah? Personally, I think this is puerile thinking - at its finest - as it were.

Not really, as I said before Islam is the mindset for charity.

 

[Sahar]

You are saying you do things for the sake of "good", I am saying that I do things for the sake of Allah. You can look upon the things commanded by Allah as the ultimate stratification and purification of "good", so yes I am doing things for the sake of "good".

Excellent and very well said.

I feel waitasec disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

 

[waitasec]

Again, you are differentiating between doing something for the sake of "good" and doing something for the sake of Allah. I have tried my best to explain that they are synonymous.

well it seems as though you refuse to acknowledge that people do their best regardless of religion...that is your dilemma. and the only way to approach this dilemma is to say allah is synonymous with goodness...which is actually a fallacy because people do good works for the sake of goodness not for allah. and allah is insecure enough to tell his followers that doing good for the sake of goodness isn't good enough, that is the way you have interpret it to me...actually it is quite childish...
you have only proven my point and for that i am truly sorry

 

[Bismillah]

well it seems as though you refuse to acknowledge that people do their best regardless of religion...

One would be quite daft to think that. In fact you have repeated that idiotic statement across three pages now.

The human soul and the way it has been adorned - with the inspiration of what is right for it and what is wrong - bears witness that whoever purifies it, shall succeed and whoever corrupts it, shall fail. (Al-Shams 91: 6 - 9)

Meaning we as humans have been given the intelligence to separate right from wrong. We know, inherently, the difference between good and evil.

A man can tell right from wrong, the difference lies that a Muslim must always be righteous and that his actions are innately done "for the sake of good". I could careless that a person can do good deeds without religion, any first grader can recognize that. Islam is a comprehensive style of life in that every action is righteous and done so for the most esteemed of causes and that is why it is superior.

As I said

An atheist might admire and want to commit himself to charity, but a Muslim accepts that it is an obligation upon himself. We are forced into a state of action, instead of a state of antipathy.

So while Atheism does not mean a person will not do anything laudable, a Muslim means that a person will do laudable deeds throughout his life.

 

[gnostic]

We are getting to vague, there are many things commanded within the Qur'an. That much is obvious because it is a way of life and includes things that would go counter to our biological urges such as the urge to fornicate.

It boils down to this: Islam is superior because it is the mindset of charity. A nonbeliever may or may not act on those impulses he knows is right, a believer does.

A man can tell right from wrong, the difference lies that a Muslim must always be righteous and that his actions are innately done "for the sake of good". I could careless that a person can do good deeds without religion, any first grader can recognize that. Islam is a comprehensive style of life in that every action is righteous and done so for the most esteemed of causes and that is why it is superior.

That's a load of crap.

Since you didn't bother to reply to my post #61, then I will further elaborate on my previous points.

We have seen many instances where Muslims show no self-restraints and will cross over the line. But I will select one instance, as example.

The Danish cartoons have already been mentioned. Some of the protests were not peaceful. I understand that they were offended, but the destruction of properties, clearly showed lack of self-restraints among some of the protesters. In Syria, a nun was murdered because of the Danish caricature of Muhammad; a nun that had nothing to do with the cartoons, and she was not even Danish. There were even attempts to murder the cartoonist's life.

In both instances showed that despite the Islamic teaching and what it say in the Qur'an, these Muslims decided to take law into their own hand, and even enact punishment on those who were not in any way involved with the cartoons, show that knowing good and evil, does not always curb their baser instinct, which is to take revenge for supposed wrongdoing.

1. Did the Syrian authorities even bother to arrest the murderer?
2. Were any of rioters arrested and punished for the destruction of properties?

My points are that Qur'an may outline appropriate behaviours and conducts, but if some of these Muslims can pick and choose what to follow, then I will have to say that Muslims are not all innate in their abilities to do right for the SAKE OF GOOD.

Had knowing right from wrong, good and bad, been innate in all Muslims, as you say, then the riots would not taken place, nor the attempts of murder. Muslims should know that you can't do "right" or "good" by resorting to such measures of violence.

I am not saying that all Muslims don't have self-restraint, or that all Muslims don't obey the Qur'an. No. I am saying that Muslims are just like everyone else, and some who should know better, but still capable of committing wrongful actions, even for the sake of the prophet, faith, religion or their god.

My biggest problem with Islam is it still favored revenge, "the eye for eye, tooth for tooth" mentality of retribution, which doesn't work.

 

[Bismillah]

I saw your post, it didn't entail anything particularly profound or meaningful. In fact, I can quite understand the lengths you are willing to go to prove your point when start dragging Afghanis into the picture as moral equivalents of those living in first world countries.

Islam is a mindset of charity, arguing against that is impossible. I've already posted various verses regarding that matter.

There are some certain variables that motivated the riots in Afghanistan for example, think hard I know you can do it.

My biggest problem with Islam is it still favored revenge, "the eye for eye, tooth for tooth" mentality of retribution, which doesn't work.

“Show mercy so that you may be shown mercy, forgive people so that you will be forgiven by God.” (Musnad Ahmad)

“The merciful will be given mercy by the Most Merciful. Have mercy on those on earth and the One in the heavens will have mercy upon you.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)