Is there any place for blasphemy laws in the twenty first century?

[TagliatelliMonster]

So in fact your statement "calling to install legislation that would shut up those who disagree and express their opinions" is false.

It's not.

Because you speak of him installing blasphemy laws, not "expressing their opinion".

The opinions referred to, would qualify as blasphemy.
Installing blasphemy laws would thus prevent me to express such opinions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Very true. I met quite a few, so called spiritual people, who all claimed "I have no fear for animals"
I said "you ever stood in front of a wild tiger". No he replied. Then you don't know. Just monkey mind imaginations

Once I was swimming in the sea, and suddenly 3 of those triangles came to me in a B-line
I walked out of the water, and standing on the beach my legs were trembling for 15 minutes

Glad you're ok and made it out of that unharmed.
My recent thing was wondering how bad can an angry Earth (Earthquake) whem you're used to an angry sky (tornado) bearing down on you. My first earthquake, I wouldn't say it was scary, but when it become apparent it wasn't my first assumptions it was abit anxious provoking. And quite surreal to feel the Earth itself shake beneath you.
And because I am a human ape, I still wonder how bad a hurricane (provided its a 3 or less) can be? Its jjst a giant tornado with the wind and the rain.

 

[firedragon]

It's not.



The opinions referred to, would qualify as blasphemy.
Installing blasphemy laws would thus prevent me to express such opinions.

Nope. Sorry mate, that is never considered as blasphemy and you misquoted someone if this is your accusation.

cheers.

 

[Heyo]

Why must someone speak bad about others belief?
I can not and will not support blasphemy of religions

Why only religions? Are they somewhat special? Do you believe you are special? Do you believe you deserve special treatment before the law?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why only religions? Are they somewhat special? Do you believe you are special? Do you believe you deserve special treatment before the law?

I am not any special, i am just a human being.
Religion to many people is special yes, it is word from the God they believe in, and in many scriptures it says you shall not speak bad about God. So many religious people see that blasphemy is a way of speaking bad about their God.

I realized that to me it is better to shut up when someone spread blasphemy about my belief. I know what i believe, and just the last few days after my conversion to Islam i found strenght in the teaching, so i do not get upset by some people bad words or drawings. Its their choice

 

[stvdv]

Glad you're ok and made it out of that unharmed.

My recent thing was wondering how bad can an angry Earth (Earthquake) whem you're used to an angry sky (tornado) bearing down on you. My first earthquake, I wouldn't say it was scary, but when it become apparent it wasn't my first assumptions it was abit anxious provoking. And quite surreal to feel the Earth itself shake beneath you.
And because I am a human ape, I still wonder how bad a hurricane (provided its a 3 or less) can be? Its jjst a giant tornado with the wind and the rain.

Thank you, you would not even have known I ever existed. Such an experience is good though; you never underestimate certain dangers

Nice contemplation. I have never experienced none of these, so there is no fear feeling at all, which is interesting to see. So fear only seems to start after you have first hand experienced. Because I am quite sure, I will be shaken in fear when I feel the earth starts trembling, or when I see myself the houses, cars and trees flying around, or when I am standing till my nose in the water (drowning must be a horrible death, I tried a few times to hold my breath, but impossible to kill myself this way. Killing myself by no food/no water is relatively much, much easier I know from my own experience)

 

[firedragon]

I am not any special, i am just a human being.
Religion to many people is special yes, it is word from the God they believe in, and in many scriptures it says you shall not speak bad about God. So many religious people see that blasphemy is a way of speaking bad about their God.

I realized that to me it is better to shut up when someone spread blasphemy about my belief. I know what i believe, and just the last few days after my conversion to Islam i found strenght in the teaching, so i do not get upset by some people bad words or drawings. Its their choice

Hey. You've got your heart at the right place. I truly respect your confidence. This is the maturity that people should have and you are absolutely right. I think only the weak in faith get this excited about someone else mocking a character of your faith. But let me tell you something my brother that I have learned from extensive study of the Islamic theology in all forms be it institutions, madrasa and sociology. Please take a listen to this.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO GET ANGRY ABOUT BLASPHEMY ARE "ALSO-RAN'S".

Do you understand what I mean? This is crowd mentality. Gang mentality. You see, when you go to the street and one man starts talking about someones blasphemy and that person should be killed, it is contagious and the other man also joins in the same thought. Pier pressure. Most of them dont really care, just like you, but one weak guy does and others run with him.

This is a well studied fact even coming from age old Islamic documentation like the Tahzib atthahzib etc from a millennium ago. Muslim scholars have spoken about this "crowd mentality" and they have promoted usage of reason and logical thinking.

Peace.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hey. You've got your heart at the right place. I truly respect your confidence. This is the maturity that people should have and you are absolutely right. I think only the weak in faith get this excited about someone else mocking a character of your faith. But let me tell you something my brother that I have learned from extensive study of the Islamic theology in all forms be it institutions, madrasa and sociology. Please take a listen to this.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO GET ANGRY ABOUT BLASPHEMY ARE "ALSO-RAN'S".

Do you understand what I mean? This is crowd mentality. Gang mentality. You see, when you go to the street and one man starts talking about someones blasphemy and that person should be killed, it is contagious and the other man also joins in the same thought. Pier pressure. Most of them dont really care, just like you, but one weak guy does and others run with him.

This is a well studied fact even coming from age old Islamic documentation like the Tahzib atthahzib etc from a millennium ago. Muslim scholars have spoken about this "crowd mentality" and they have promoted usage of reason and logical thinking.

Peace.

Thank you for sharing this @firedragon

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nope. Sorry mate, that is never considered as blasphemy and you misquoted someone if this is your accusation.

cheers.

Blasphemy laws, by definition, would limit my freedom of expression in that they will make it unlawfull for me to say things that theists would consider blasphemous.
So if my opinions are considered blasphemous, I would be no longer able to voice them.


How you think you can argue with that one is beyond me.

 

[PruePhillip]

I was disturbed to read this news item about a man sentenced to be hung for blasphemy in Pakistan.

Christian man in Pakistan sentenced to be hanged for blaspheming Mohammed

A Pakistani man has been sentenced to die for blasphemy.

On Tuesday, Christian factory worker Asif Pervaiz was sentenced to be hanged after his supervisor accused him of defamatory text messages regarding the Muslim prophet Mohammed, reported Deutsche Welle.

In the southeast Asian nation of more than 210 million inhabitants, in which more than 95% of citizens practice Islam, communicating insulting remarks about Mohammed carries a mandatory death penalty.

After a seven-year trial in Lahore, the 37-year-old defendant was convicted and ordered to be "hanged by his neck (until) his death.”

Christian man in Pakistan sentenced to be hanged for blaspheming Mohammed

It seems incredibly damaging to Islam when these sentences are enacted. Is there any place for blasphemy laws in the 21st century?

A lot of nations do not live in the 21st Century.

 

[firedragon]

Blasphemy laws, by definition, would limit my freedom of expression in that they will make it unlawfull for me to say things that theists would consider blasphemous.
So if my opinions are considered blasphemous, I would be no longer able to voice them.


How you think you can argue with that one is beyond me.

If your opinions are blasphemous, that's a whole other matter. You simply misquoted someone and extrapolated blasphemy into opinion and accused someone of a false claim without clarifying with the person what he means first.

Thats dishonesty now to deflect it into a discussion about your personal opinion being blasphemous. I am unpleasantly surprised and there is absolutely no point in this discussion from this point onwards.

Peace.

 

[Heyo]

A lot of nations do not live in the 21st Century.

Literally.

Islamic calendar - Wikipedia

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If your opinions are blasphemous, that's a whole other matter.

It's been the only matter in this conversation.

You simply misquoted someone and extrapolated blasphemy into opinion and accused someone of a false claim without clarifying with the person what he means first.

I did not and explained it multiple times now how I did not.
You simply injected yourself mid-conversation and apparently didn't bother the read the lead-upto the post you decided to jump on.

Thats dishonesty now to deflect it into a discussion about your personal opinion being blasphemous. I am unpleasantly surprised and there is absolutely no point in this discussion from this point onwards.

lol.... whatever makes you feel good about your accusations, I guess.

This entire thread has been about blasphemy and how it would limit freedom of expression if reinstalled.

It's in fact you who dishonestly tried to pretend it was about something else.

 

[firedragon]

It's been the only matter in this conversation.




I did not and explained it multiple times now how I did not.
You simply injected yourself mid-conversation and apparently didn't bother the read the lead-upto the post you decided to jump on.



lol.... whatever makes you feel good about your accusations, I guess.

This entire thread has been about blasphemy and how it would limit freedom of expression if reinstalled.

It's in fact you who dishonestly tried to pretend it was about something else.

Nice. Cheers.

 

[Windwalker]

I have never declared war on any one. I have no wish to harm others.
The only thing i have said is that drawing og Muhammad (Pbuh) is seen as blasphemy from a muslim stand point. So yes if non muslims draw it like that it is Een as a wrong deed.
I can not answer for other muslims, but personallyni have no need for attacking non believers. But i will tell my view.

My point was, "blasphemy" is only blasphemy to someone who is part of that religion. It's fine if you want to accuse a fellow Muslim of blasphemy. But to accuse of non-believer of a religious offence, is holding them to the same rules as those who are believers. That's forcing Islam upon them, violently.

It would be like arresting you, and executing you, because you disrespectfully handled your Buddhist malas, or using Buddha's name in vain while you were Muslim. You can't take your values from your system, and start condemning others, to death in some cases, upon outsiders to the religion. That's basically declaring war on the world, for not following Islamic beliefs. I don't find any truth in that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

My point was, "blasphemy" is only blasphemy to someone who is part of that religion. It's fine if you want to accuse a fellow Muslim of blasphemy. But to accuse of non-believer of a religious offence, is holding them to the same rules as those who are believers. That's forcing Islam upon them, violently.

It would be like arresting you, and executing you, because you disrespectfully handled your Buddhist malas, or using Buddha's name in vain while you were Muslim.

Maybe muslims should say. Please do not make drawings or caricature of our prophet. It is against our religion to dtaw muhammad.

I can not stop anyone who draw pictures like that. But i can not understand why they do it.

 

[firedragon]

Maybe muslims should say. Please do not make drawings or caricature of our prophet. It is against our religion to dtaw muhammad.

I can not stop anyone who draw pictures like that. But i can not understand why they do it.

You should understand why they do it. Their purpose is to increase their followers. Even this Hebdo matter everyone knows that their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their instagram followers and of course the business overall.

So that's why they do it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You should understand why they do it. Their purpose is to increase their followers. Even this Hebdo matter everyone knows that their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their instagram followers and of course the business overall.

So that's why they do it.

I know, but i want them to say it, i want them to say its because they want to mock muslims. But i can not force them to say it.

 

[Windwalker]

Maybe muslims should say. Please do not make drawings or caricature of our prophet. It is against our religion to dtaw muhammad.

I can not stop anyone who draw pictures like that. But i can not understand why they do it.

Sure, they can ask. But no one is under any obligation to respect that. You can't kill them because they don't, and that is exactly what has been happening. Force, is not love. Force is not God, in my views of God.

Why they might choose to do that, is for their personal reasons. You, nor anyone else, has the right to kill them if they offend your religion.Murder is an offense in all religions.

 

[firedragon]

I know, but i want them to say it, i want them to say its because they want to mock muslims. But i can not force them to say it.

Brother. People very very rarely accept reality.