i think they're all bogus,God must be laughing in utter amusement at our folly....if he's even bothering to watch
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Is there Really only one True Religion?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
i think they're all bogus,God must be laughing in utter amusement at our folly....if he's even bothering to watch
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Do you think it's necessary for mankind to have scriptures to know God? I ask this because Kemetics reject the texts of the ancient Egyptians as any kind of scriptures, and instead opt for them being wisdom literature and the myths as being metaphors that convey a higher spirit truth.
I think that some for of guidance is necessary. For instance, without the scriptures, we wouldn't have the understanding of Yogic practice and techniques that bring the individual to God Realisation. And without Krishna's words of wisdom, the devotee may take much longer to understand the importance of giving up attachment (and what this even means) and other such truths.
Scriptural texts are not the only way to come to God, however. A wise teacher with the correct knowledge would suffice or even the religious teachings in oral form. What is important is guidance. This can come in many forms.
Oh - so you were going for an apples-to-oranges comparison. You know that all the Eastern Orthodox Christian churches are in communion with each other too, right? Their division into separate churches is mainly to do with language and local customs, not theological differences.
Meh. I've said it before: if growth rate was the measure of truth of a religion, then we should all be Falun Gong.
Personally, I find it interesting that what you're saying about other Kemetic sects is almost word-for-word what many Christians say about other Christian sects.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
There are in fact MANY true religions!
I quote the Baha'i scriptures:
"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."
(The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 114;
also Gleanings, CXI, pp. 217-8)
Best!
Bruce
I quote the Baha'i scriptures:
"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."
(The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 114;
also Gleanings, CXI, pp. 217-8)
Best!
Bruce
chinu
chinu
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
This is what the Buddha said, and I think it's quite relevant to the topic at hand:
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
:yes: :clap
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Yours.
No I don't. But the scriptures have been developed in different areas of the world slightly differently. And even expanded from one to the other. And most are an attempt to put into words something that humans cannot fully comprehend.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I agree, and I think scriptures are very limited vehicles for conveying any kind of word of God, because they're written bound by the culture and time they are written. The eternal truth cannot be found in something so limited, it has to be something ongoing and not bound to such a limited vehicle. I think this is why Kemetics reject the ancient Egyptian texts as "scriptures".
I think it is our minds that are limited. It's kind of like trying to describe how moving music is with only words. It's hard to convey the feeling. And when it comes to God think of how much more complicated it is than something like music.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Back again -wasn't sure if this was one of the forums out of which I was kicked -or if I was weary of human interaction when I left -but.... I was thinking....
If you think of the true religion as living by truth itself, then there can be only one true religion -as we all inhabit the same reality.
We see from history that constantly dividing and subdividing reality does not create a desired state -and is essentially an attempt to outrun the inevitable conflict caused by not universally knowing or adhering to the optimal course of action based on all possible information.
The same applies to separation of thought/fantasy and reality. Our beliefs/imaginations inevitably affect the shared reality -which can be a wonderful thing.... or a horrible thing.
The thing which makes the difference is consideration of the shared environment and of all who share the environment.
Therefore, the true religion would be that which led to -not immediately produced -an end-state beneficial to all. Such a state could not have been the initial state due to our initial ignorance and inexperience.
So -the question concerning God becomes whether or not any "God" exists among all possible information -and what is the nature of that God or gods.
For a God to be "true" it would have to be "real" -it would have to exist -and also adhere to the one true religion. A "false" god would not exist -or would not adhere to the true religion.
As a "God" is one that is obeyed/followed, adhering to the one true religion would require leading followers to it and creating the desired end-state from the initial (or at very least present) state.
Given our nature and state -and the role of a true God, a true God would require knowledge of all things -and the power to bring them to the end-state.
The ultimate end-state would be all existing together and creating in peace -and also include not being subject to death.
Considering the ultimate end-state, said God would require all possible knowledge (save anything newly created which was a rearrangement of that which has already existed) in order to pass on such knowledge. Said God would also require all power -power over cosmic events to the smallest of events, and the interaction of all events in order to assure eternal life -but also power over all other wills and actions which could turn the course of all from the desired end-state.
In other words, a true God would have to be able to bring us to the desired end-state whether we initially liked it or not
-agreed with it or not -because it is the truth we do not yet realize, and is beneficial to all -not any individual or subgroup. Said God would regard the truth over any individual or group -but would also regard any individual or group which was for the truth.
Said God -given all that knowledge and power -would not simply be part of the truth -but the source of that truth -should be valued as such, listened to and obeyed.
How might said God cause us to eventually know it for what it is, listen to it -and obey it -if we refused in ignorance or even malevolence?
Now -if we assume there is no such god...
what sort of end-state can be realistically expected?
What sort of end-state is possible for humans to achieve -given that they are subject to each other, their environment, cyclical death and initial ignorance, loss or destruction of knowledge, learning empirically rather than accessing a complete database, an inability to cooperate universally, etc., etc.?
Can man eventually create peace on earth or beyond and ensure it for successive generations?
Can man learn to live peacefully with the environment before it is destroyed and in turn destroys man -which includes "green" practices and cessation from warfare which destroys both?
Can man become eternal of himself in order to resolve the issue of successive generations?
Can man know and agree upon universal truth and maintain peace eternally?
Can we do any of these things before becoming extinct -or without being destroyed afterward?
Can we give a second chance to those that have already died -now that they have some experience?
Is any desirable end-state even possible?
If you think of the true religion as living by truth itself, then there can be only one true religion -as we all inhabit the same reality.
We see from history that constantly dividing and subdividing reality does not create a desired state -and is essentially an attempt to outrun the inevitable conflict caused by not universally knowing or adhering to the optimal course of action based on all possible information.
The same applies to separation of thought/fantasy and reality. Our beliefs/imaginations inevitably affect the shared reality -which can be a wonderful thing.... or a horrible thing.
The thing which makes the difference is consideration of the shared environment and of all who share the environment.
Therefore, the true religion would be that which led to -not immediately produced -an end-state beneficial to all. Such a state could not have been the initial state due to our initial ignorance and inexperience.
So -the question concerning God becomes whether or not any "God" exists among all possible information -and what is the nature of that God or gods.
For a God to be "true" it would have to be "real" -it would have to exist -and also adhere to the one true religion. A "false" god would not exist -or would not adhere to the true religion.
As a "God" is one that is obeyed/followed, adhering to the one true religion would require leading followers to it and creating the desired end-state from the initial (or at very least present) state.
Given our nature and state -and the role of a true God, a true God would require knowledge of all things -and the power to bring them to the end-state.
The ultimate end-state would be all existing together and creating in peace -and also include not being subject to death.
Considering the ultimate end-state, said God would require all possible knowledge (save anything newly created which was a rearrangement of that which has already existed) in order to pass on such knowledge. Said God would also require all power -power over cosmic events to the smallest of events, and the interaction of all events in order to assure eternal life -but also power over all other wills and actions which could turn the course of all from the desired end-state.
In other words, a true God would have to be able to bring us to the desired end-state whether we initially liked it or not
-agreed with it or not -because it is the truth we do not yet realize, and is beneficial to all -not any individual or subgroup. Said God would regard the truth over any individual or group -but would also regard any individual or group which was for the truth.
Said God -given all that knowledge and power -would not simply be part of the truth -but the source of that truth -should be valued as such, listened to and obeyed.
How might said God cause us to eventually know it for what it is, listen to it -and obey it -if we refused in ignorance or even malevolence?
Now -if we assume there is no such god...
what sort of end-state can be realistically expected?
What sort of end-state is possible for humans to achieve -given that they are subject to each other, their environment, cyclical death and initial ignorance, loss or destruction of knowledge, learning empirically rather than accessing a complete database, an inability to cooperate universally, etc., etc.?
Can man eventually create peace on earth or beyond and ensure it for successive generations?
Can man learn to live peacefully with the environment before it is destroyed and in turn destroys man -which includes "green" practices and cessation from warfare which destroys both?
Can man become eternal of himself in order to resolve the issue of successive generations?
Can man know and agree upon universal truth and maintain peace eternally?
Can we do any of these things before becoming extinct -or without being destroyed afterward?
Can we give a second chance to those that have already died -now that they have some experience?
Is any desirable end-state even possible?
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outhouse
Atheistically
Nada
#
Is There One True Religion?
Some people find that question offensive. Given the sheer multitude of religious beliefs worldwide, they reason that anyone who claims to have a monopoly on truth must be narrow-minded, even arrogant. Surely, it would seem, some good is to be found in all religions or at least most of them. Is that how you feel?
THERE are, of course, situations in which it is prudent to allow for a variety of opinions. For example, a person might believe that a certain diet will make him healthier. But should he impose that diet on everyone else, as if it were the only way to healthy living? Certainly, it would be wise and modest on his part to allow for the possibility that someone elses choice of food might be as good or even better, at least for that other person.
Is it the same with religion? Are there a variety of acceptable alternatives from which to choose, depending on ones upbringing and way of perceiving things? Or is there one body of religious truth that applies to all mankind? Let us see what the Bible has to say. First, we will consider whether truth is even attainable. After all, if it is not, then there is little point in searching for one true religion.
Is Religious Truth Attainable?
Shortly before he was killed, Jesus Christ told his interrogator, Roman Governor Pontius Pilate: Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice. Pilate may well have been responding cynically when he said: What is truth? (John 18:37, 38) Jesus, on the other hand, spoke unashamedly of truth. He did not doubt its existence. Consider, for example, the following four statements that Jesus made to various people.
For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.John 18:37.
I am the way and the truth and the life.John 14:6.
God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.John 4:23, 24.
If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.John 8:31, 32.
Since Jesus spoke so confidently of truth and of coming to know it, shouldnt we at least examine the possibility that religious truth exists and that it can be found?
Does Absolute Truth Really Exist?
No doubt you will agree that there are some things of which you can be absolutely certain. You are sure of your own existence and that the objects that surround you are real. The trees, the mountains, the clouds, the sun, and the moonthe material worldare not figments of your imagination. Of course, there may be a few people who argue in a philosophical way that even those things are questionable. But it is unlikely that you agree with such an extreme notion.
Then there are natural laws. Of these too, you can be absolutely certain. For example, if you jump off a cliff, you will fall; if you refuse to eat, you will feel hungry; and if you go without food for a long time, you will die. You do not wonder if such natural laws hold true for some but not for others. They apply to all mankind and are therefore said to be universal.
The Bible alludes to one such universal law when it asks: Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and yet his very garments not be burned? Indeed, when that was written, it was universally true that clothing would burn if brought into contact with fire. However, in stating this fact, the above Bible proverb is really making a bigger point, namely, that anyone having [sexual] relations with the wife of his fellowman will suffer adverse consequences.Proverbs 6:27, 29.
Is that statement an absolute truth of which we can be certain? Some would say no. They claim that morals are personal, that they depend on ones upbringing, beliefs, and circumstances. But consider a few of Gods moral laws as found in the Bible. Are these not universal truths?
The Bible condemns adultery. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Some people do not accept this Bible precept as truth, and they practice adultery. Still, even they generally reap bitter consequences, which often include a troubled conscience, divorce, and deep emotional scars for all concerned.
Drunkenness is also condemned by God. (Proverbs 23:20; Ephesians 5:18) What happens when people practice it? In many cases they lose their job, their health, and their family, who also suffer emotionally. (Proverbs 23:29-35) Such consequences come even to those who do not believe that drunkenness is wrong. Does the truthfulness of these moral laws appear to be relative to the beliefs or perceptions of each individual?
Then there are the Bibles positive moral commandssuch as the commands to love ones wife, to respect ones husband, and to do good to others. (Matthew 7:12; Ephesians 5:33) Observing these commands brings beneficial results.
Would you argue that such moral counsel is good for some but not for others?
Whether the moral laws of the Bible are followed or not brings consequences to people. This fact argues that such laws are not just alternative points of view. Rather, they are truths. Evidence reveals that good consequences are realized when the Bibles moral laws are followed, but bad ones when they are not.
So think: If the Bibles moral laws hold true for all mankind, what about the standards in Gods Word regarding worship? What about its comments on what happens when we die and the hope we have for an everlasting future? It logically follows that these Bible teachings are also truths, provided for all mankind. Their benefits and consequences are not limited to only the people who believe them.
Truth can be found. Jesus said that Gods Word, the Bible, is truth. (John 17:17) Yet, truth may still seem unattainable. Why? Because so many different religions claim to teach what the Bible says. Which religion is teaching the truth from Gods Word? Must we limit the answer to just one religion? Could not the truth, or at least parts of it, be found in a number of religions?
Is There One True Religion? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Some people find that question offensive. Given the sheer multitude of religious beliefs worldwide, they reason that anyone who claims to have a monopoly on truth must be narrow-minded, even arrogant. Surely, it would seem, some good is to be found in all religions or at least most of them. Is that how you feel?
THERE are, of course, situations in which it is prudent to allow for a variety of opinions. For example, a person might believe that a certain diet will make him healthier. But should he impose that diet on everyone else, as if it were the only way to healthy living? Certainly, it would be wise and modest on his part to allow for the possibility that someone elses choice of food might be as good or even better, at least for that other person.
Is it the same with religion? Are there a variety of acceptable alternatives from which to choose, depending on ones upbringing and way of perceiving things? Or is there one body of religious truth that applies to all mankind? Let us see what the Bible has to say. First, we will consider whether truth is even attainable. After all, if it is not, then there is little point in searching for one true religion.
Is Religious Truth Attainable?
Shortly before he was killed, Jesus Christ told his interrogator, Roman Governor Pontius Pilate: Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice. Pilate may well have been responding cynically when he said: What is truth? (John 18:37, 38) Jesus, on the other hand, spoke unashamedly of truth. He did not doubt its existence. Consider, for example, the following four statements that Jesus made to various people.
For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.John 18:37.
I am the way and the truth and the life.John 14:6.
God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.John 4:23, 24.
If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.John 8:31, 32.
Since Jesus spoke so confidently of truth and of coming to know it, shouldnt we at least examine the possibility that religious truth exists and that it can be found?
Does Absolute Truth Really Exist?
No doubt you will agree that there are some things of which you can be absolutely certain. You are sure of your own existence and that the objects that surround you are real. The trees, the mountains, the clouds, the sun, and the moonthe material worldare not figments of your imagination. Of course, there may be a few people who argue in a philosophical way that even those things are questionable. But it is unlikely that you agree with such an extreme notion.
Then there are natural laws. Of these too, you can be absolutely certain. For example, if you jump off a cliff, you will fall; if you refuse to eat, you will feel hungry; and if you go without food for a long time, you will die. You do not wonder if such natural laws hold true for some but not for others. They apply to all mankind and are therefore said to be universal.
The Bible alludes to one such universal law when it asks: Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and yet his very garments not be burned? Indeed, when that was written, it was universally true that clothing would burn if brought into contact with fire. However, in stating this fact, the above Bible proverb is really making a bigger point, namely, that anyone having [sexual] relations with the wife of his fellowman will suffer adverse consequences.Proverbs 6:27, 29.
Is that statement an absolute truth of which we can be certain? Some would say no. They claim that morals are personal, that they depend on ones upbringing, beliefs, and circumstances. But consider a few of Gods moral laws as found in the Bible. Are these not universal truths?
The Bible condemns adultery. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Some people do not accept this Bible precept as truth, and they practice adultery. Still, even they generally reap bitter consequences, which often include a troubled conscience, divorce, and deep emotional scars for all concerned.
Drunkenness is also condemned by God. (Proverbs 23:20; Ephesians 5:18) What happens when people practice it? In many cases they lose their job, their health, and their family, who also suffer emotionally. (Proverbs 23:29-35) Such consequences come even to those who do not believe that drunkenness is wrong. Does the truthfulness of these moral laws appear to be relative to the beliefs or perceptions of each individual?
Then there are the Bibles positive moral commandssuch as the commands to love ones wife, to respect ones husband, and to do good to others. (Matthew 7:12; Ephesians 5:33) Observing these commands brings beneficial results.
Would you argue that such moral counsel is good for some but not for others?
Whether the moral laws of the Bible are followed or not brings consequences to people. This fact argues that such laws are not just alternative points of view. Rather, they are truths. Evidence reveals that good consequences are realized when the Bibles moral laws are followed, but bad ones when they are not.
So think: If the Bibles moral laws hold true for all mankind, what about the standards in Gods Word regarding worship? What about its comments on what happens when we die and the hope we have for an everlasting future? It logically follows that these Bible teachings are also truths, provided for all mankind. Their benefits and consequences are not limited to only the people who believe them.
Truth can be found. Jesus said that Gods Word, the Bible, is truth. (John 17:17) Yet, truth may still seem unattainable. Why? Because so many different religions claim to teach what the Bible says. Which religion is teaching the truth from Gods Word? Must we limit the answer to just one religion? Could not the truth, or at least parts of it, be found in a number of religions?
Is There One True Religion? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
No, there is no such thing as "one true religion" for humanity. There is no religion that can meet the spiritual needs and be in sync with the experiences of all human beings. We have already seen the huge and most irreparable amount of damage done by those adhering to this mentality to the folkways, knowledge and spirits of indigenous people across almost the entire globe. It is poisonous and genocidal thinking. It needs to be finally thrown into the rubbish bin of history. It has wholly failed us as a species.
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Stovepipe_Hat
One who will die.
Not to mention the fact that most Egyptian texts are funerary. While alive, one never writes
My heart of my mother,
my heart of my mother,
my heart of my earthly being,
do not stand against me as witness
beside the lords of the ritual.
Do not say against me,
"He did do it," about my acts.
Do not make a case against me
beside the great god.
Hail my heart! Hail my heart!
Hail my entrails! Hail those gods!*
except on behalf of another who is in the coffin. That every human being will die is the one truth.my heart of my mother,
my heart of my earthly being,
do not stand against me as witness
beside the lords of the ritual.
Do not say against me,
"He did do it," about my acts.
Do not make a case against me
beside the great god.
Hail my heart! Hail my heart!
Hail my entrails! Hail those gods!*
*Digital Egypt, Univ. of Cambridge
Looncall
Well-Known Member
Excellent, whoever said it.
Triumphant_Loser
Libertarian Egalitarian
Unless there is someone out there who literally knows everything there is to know, then no. Everything we have come up with is all speculation, including my own religion.