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Is Woke a religion?
- Thread starter LeftyLen
- Start date
I recall the discussion of same sex marriage when it became the law of the land in 2015. In one particular discussion, I referred to marriage equality, and was told that such people already had equality. Everybody who could marry had the right to marry the opposite sex. And that was correct. What same sex couples wanted was equity.
Maybe you've seen this:
No. It's about equal opportunity for people to effect similar outcomes. Equal outcomes are not guaranteed.
Consider the same sex couples comment above. Everybody now has the opportunity to marry the consenting adult who is the object of their desire, but as with opposite sex marriages, some of these marriages will be happy and successful and others will be the opposite. The same sex couple now has the opportunity to have what a happy opposite sex couple has (equity), but their outcome is in their hands.
Equality is stairs. Equity is handicapped access added.
I'm a huge fan of equal opportunity. I'm glad to hear you say that equal outcomes are not guaranteed.
But in DEI, the E stands for equity not equality. As I understand it, most DEI initiatives are focused on equity (of outcome), and I think that approach has a lot of problems.
Maybe, but I'm not familiar with the specifics of the programs or their virtues or vices. I'm not living in the States.
I enjoy these discussions at the level of philosophy - right versus wrong, people building, social justice, the humanist vision and agenda, and the like.
But at the philosophical level we could evaluate whether equity of outcome is a good idea or not, correct?
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Evidence?
ppp
Well-Known Member
As nothing that you quoted are words or synonyms of words that I attributed to you, the answer to that question is quite evidently, Yes.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
As far as I can tell woke isn't a religion and neither is cultural marxism.
Being woke is about being aware of social injustice or discrimination as opposed to being aware spiritually and cultural marxism is a political ideology. There doesn't appear to be any belief in or worship of a superhuman power, or a system of faith and worship. Perhaps they are pursuits or interests to which people ascribe supreme importance, but that really just a way of comparing their interest to religion. When, for example, a person is described as being religious about taking a medication, it doesn't mean that taking medication is a religious activity it merely indicates the importance placed thereon. Similarly to say that being woke or that cultural marxism is a religion, merely means to compare the interest that people place in wokeness or cultural marxism to the interest that people place in actual religion.
LeftyLen
Active Member
The Woke mob departs somewhat from cultural Marxists o dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.
--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’
--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘
--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.
-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.
---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.
--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.
--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.
LeftyLen
Active Member
Imperialism was an affectation of western civilization. that western powers imposed themselves on third world countries util 1945 is of no question. After 1945 imperialism declined. Today it is a buzz word of the left rehashing it like race and gender.
LeftyLen
Active Member
The Woke mob departs somewhat from cultural Marxists dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.
--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’
--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘
--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.
-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.
---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.
--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.
--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
This just shows you don't know much about the topic. Your truth/ My truth is an insight on personal views and experiences affect perceptions. This is why two people can witness the same event but have widely different descriptions of that same event. Both narratives of the event are true from the perspective of the individual witnesses even if they don't exactly match up.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
if you can't repsond to a post then don't respond. It is far better than cut and pasting the same post again and again
LeftyLen
Active Member
LeftyLen
Active Member
If my assertions are wrong, i invite rebuttal
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
its been rebutted many times over by many posters
LeftyLen
Active Member
"its wrong because its wrong" is a tautological fallacy. All points STAND until a coherent rebuttal is offered. None have been or seem to be forthcoming. 'Woke is cultural marxism.
Oeste
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but @Argentbear did not state “its wrong because its wrong”. He/She stated “Its been rebutted many times over by many posters”.
Argentbear’s statement is true as evidenced by the many negative statements to your premise and assertions on this thread. Your rebuttal was a strawman, as it substituted Argentbear actual statement with another statement Argentbear never made. It was this "Strawman" you knocked down.
rebuttal
noun [ C ]
formal
US
/rɪˈbʌt̬.əl/ UK
/rɪˈbʌt.əl/
a statement that says that something is not true:
She issued a point-by-point rebuttal of the company's accusations. (Source)
You've set a low bar. There have been many statements by many posters that your statements are not true. They were easily readable and coherent. Thus by your own standard, your points no longer stand, and it's hard to argue with that.
However, even without all the rebuttals, you still have this backwards. You must first make the case your assumptions are true, otherwise any rebuttal simply requires an opposing opinion, and nothing more. If you provide no credible evidence, then the rebutter requires no credible evidence to disagree. Evidence requires more than a further statements from you, and Post 413 contains numerous unevidenced statements.
Rebuttals were previously presented. Forum posters presented them, and others can read them. I see no advantage in claiming they aren’t there.
"Cultural Marxism" is a right wing, antisemitic buzzword. It's modern day slang for the Nazi's "Cultural Bolshevism".
"Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for modern progressive movements, identity politics, and political correctness. (Source)