Islam belief, Noah, the Great Flood and Science. Coherent or contradictory?

[shunyadragon]

So the next guy to come along may well not be in 950 years, but in 2 weeks?

?????

 

[shunyadragon]

No matter how you try to justify it, Baha'u'llah states in the clearest manner that he believes the flood took over all of earth and destroyed everything and Noah live for 950 years.

No, Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i writings are clear it is not a literal flood. and the 950 years do not represent 950 literal human years.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and all true religions are from the same God so you'd expect to see more or less the same concepts. Judaism has as many differences with Islam as it has similarities. For example, the story of Lot being intoxicated by his daughters and then raped by them, or stories of other Prophets committing adultery are categorically denied in the Shia Islamic belief. Prophets have to be infallible if they are to guide other people to guidance. That is why we believe the stories in the Old and New Testament have suffered from distortion because obviously God would not dispatch such Prophets.

As for the moon splitting, it was considered a miracle from an Omnipotent God. I don't expect someone who does not believe in God or miracles to believe this event ever occurred.

In the time of Muhammad God told the people of the Gospel to judge with the Gospel. God told them in the Quran to uphold the Tora and the Gospel.

Those stories about the prophets in the Previous Scriptures actually show us that they were human beings as well. Humans sin. That's a fact.

The Shia is just a Persian fabrication. Lets skip that chapter.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Where does a person stop making things "symbolic" and "allegorical"? Creation? Allegory. The Flood? Allegory. Satan? Allegory. Jesus rising from the dead? Allegory. God???

That's your own choice that you are responsible for. Creation needs a Hebrew analyses, sinces days mean a period in Hebrew. Six days of Creation doesn't mean it were six earthly days. It were six periods.

Yes i believe there was a huge flood.
Yes i believe there is a person that is called Satan who is real. I believe there are different dimensions.
Yes i believe Jesus Christ is resurrected from death, literal. With the Power of God, everything is possible for Him.

God created so many stars. Why couldn't he do such minor things, in comparison with all those huge stars created with so many power etc.

Give God a chance. Have patience. And witness a miracle yourself. It's personal, nobody can convince you with their stories. You have to witness God's Spirit yourself. Ask, and you shall Receive. Seek, and you will Find.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

The Shia is just a Persian fabrication.

And Your statement is just an ignorant fabrication.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I wasn't referring to you. I simply meant that someone who doesn't believe in God or His Omnipotence won't believe in miracles either. BTW, you avatar is very creative.

Mashallah. I seek the Creator, and don't care if people see him as YAWEH, God, Allah SWT. Many seek, few find.

 

[Firemorphic]

So the next guy to come along may well not be in 950 years, but in 2 weeks?

It worked for Bahaullah, so why not?

 

[Vinayaka]

It worked for Bahaullah, so why not?

There are literally thousands of messiah claimants, probably some new guy every week. So yeah, why not? Maybe one of them is right. Then again, maybe not.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Most of those who claim to wait for a savior of mankind, are unreliable. Rather than that, it is best to devote one's self to pleasing and worshiping the Creator, and living a life pleasing to Him.

I heard from a Jew in Israel that perhaps the Messiah was a state of mind, and that by pleasing the Creator, we would save ourselves.

 

[Firemorphic]

There are literally thousands of messiah claimants, probably some new guy every week. So yeah, why not? Maybe one of them is right. Then again, maybe not.

Maybe I'm the savior? Or maybe you are? who knows

 

[Vinayaka]

Maybe I'm the savior? Or maybe you are? who knows

Just so you know, (you're late to the discussion) I don't believe in saviour, avatar, any of those. I do believe in wise men. So for me personally it's nobody. But the idea seems to work for some people, so it's fine, I respect their right to believe that.

 

[Firemorphic]

Just so you know, (you're late to the discussion) I don't believe in saviour, avatar, any of those. I do believe in wise men. So for me personally it's nobody. But the idea seems to work for some people, so it's fine, I respect their right to believe that.

I agree

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is obviously a response to the other thread I created where I showed Baha'u'llah believes the flood is real and it had encompassed all earth and destroyed everything:

Noah's Flood from a Baha'i perspective, fact or fantasy?

This thread is about Islamic beliefs regarding Noah and the flood, not Baha'i beliefs.

Unfortunately if our Baha'i friend here has paid more attention to the writings of Baha'u'llah he would have noticed that Baha'u'llah also believed that Noah had lived for at least 950 years:

“Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call.” (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i Iqan)

Baha'u'llah is simply elaborating on a well known narrative, as Muhammad, Jesus and Moses did before Him. Baha'is clearly see it as allegorical. I have the impression Muslims take it literally.

And as usual, faced with a dilemma, his successor without providing any meaningless argument contradicts the founder and claims:

"The years of Noah are not years as we count them, and as our teachings do not state that this reference to years means His dispensation, we cannot interpret it this way." (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 25, 1950; quoted in Lights of Guidance, no. 1659)

There's no dilemma for Baha'is.

I have rarely seen a statement in Baha'i scripture that has not been contradicted by one or all the leaders.

The Baha'i writings as a whole are clear, consistent and non-contradictory if we look at all the relevant writings in context. The problem is when one or two writings are taken out of context with an intent to distort and misrepresent.

 

[Dawnofhope]

In the belief of Shia Islam the only person that has the right to choose the successor to a Prophet is the same one that dispatched that Prophet: meaning God. So Muhammad had no say in who should or could be his successor. It was God that chose Ali, no one else had a say in this not even the Prophet.

So how do you know it was God who appointed Ali, if not through His prophet?

 

[shunyadragon]

Where does a person stop making things "symbolic" and "allegorical"? Creation? Allegory. The Flood? Allegory. Satan? Allegory. Jesus rising from the dead? Allegory. God???

Archaeological, historical and Geological objective verifiable evidence before they can be considered factual history..

 

[Firemorphic]

If you look at things (such as Noah) as a mutually exclusive phenomenon of either factual history or mere myth, (regardless of what possible answers could come from either) then you aren't going to get much out of it either option because they're both irrelevant.

 

[Dawnofhope]

According to Baha'u'llah, Noah a metaphorical Prophet, preached for 950 metaphorical years, and then a metaphorical flood destroyed his metaphorical people while he was saved in a metaphorical ship. Does it make more sense now or do I sound like a nutjob?

Baha'is avoid labelling those who have different beliefs to us as 'nut jobs'. It reflects an intolerant and bigoted attitude but go ahead.

Baha'is don't believe there was a flood that covered the whole earth a few thousand years ago. We agree with the vast majority of scientists that are clear there isn't any scientific evidence to support this view. Further, it would have been logistically impossible to gather all the animals of the world together and have them cohabit on a boat together. We don't believe that human beings used to live for nearly a thousand years of age. However if you want to believe all these things to be literally true, and call those who think otherwise nut jobs go ahead.

 

[oldbadger]

Over the years I have seen them all, and yes there are archaeological finds that confirm individual events, facts and people in the Bible, but there are also many, many finds that demonstrates contradictions and very real problems with Biblical accounts. Many cited by @joeil

Then don't chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[oldbadger]

Archaeological, historical and Geological objective verifiable evidence before they can be considered factual history..

What is 'factual history'?
Factual History is a ball which gets batted to left and right according to the players.

Archaeologists are often left with inconclusive evidence and any conclusions that they may decide to support are sometimes based upon the 'balance of probability' and 'balance of possibility'. Of course they make this clear.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Tora mentioned that Noah lived 950 years as well.

What if the food was better before the flood? We see that the people start living lesser and lesser. What if a certain food that they were eating wasn't there anymore after the flood?

Jesus Christ raised dead people as a sign. And healed the blind. And healed lepers. What if it is true? What if it's not allegorical? Everything is possible with Gods Power after all?

So let's assume for a moment that both the Torah and Quran are literally true. How do you account for the contradictions.

Here's a list of the verified oldest men and women.

List of the verified oldest people - Wikipedia

Don't you think its a little strange that people could have lived more than 8 X longer than the oldest people today. I doubt if we would get that amount of change from a diet and I am a medical doctor which adds to my scepticism of your theory.