Israel Declares War After Hamas Attacks

[Jayhawker Soule]

Just as many Israelis would support killing all the Palestinians, ...

You engage in blood libel with disturbing ease and despicable candor.

 

[Left Coast]

It's about a current situation.
Of course there will be differences,
eg, order of events.
My comparison doesn't work for you.
I needn't pursue it.

It's not that it doesn't work "for me." Facts aren't personal. It doesn't work.

If a real question, I'll answer it again....
The war must be waged in a far more surgical manner.

Surgical, how? What are they not doing that they should be doing, or doing differently? Be specific.

The fundamental problem that Israeli apologists won't
address is that decades of oppression, torture, murder,
group punishment, etc created the situation today.

Oh what nonsense. The fundamental problem is that Hamas apologists, and others with almost complete ignorance of history, want to blame this conflict on Israel while it fights a literal terrorist organization that exists to exterminate the Jews and replace Israel with an Islamist caliphate.

The best defense is to offer justice to Palestinians.
This will take a long time, but it's the only path to
peace. Alas, Israel only wants momentary victory.

This is another silly caricature of history. Israel has repeatedly offered peace. It has repeatedly offered a two state solution. The notion that it irrationally only wants "momentary victory" is absurd.

No. Before the Hamas attack, the control
was more political & economic oppression.
This is all in the news.

If Israel already controlled the terroritory, then your explanation for their motives in this war makes even less sense.

Israel has now killed over 7,000 Palestinians.
Should we ensure that Israel never does that again?

The two are not analogous for reasons you are bright enough to know. Hamas' battle strategy is for Palestinians civilians to die. Tell me you know this.

If one takes the view that all civilian deaths should
be avoided, this requires considering the humanity
of both Israelis & Palestinians. To empathize only
with Israel leads to further injustice.

Speaking for myself, I absolutely empathize with civilians on both sides.

And this is the view that has western countries
aiding Israel's oppression & murder of Palestinians.
Israel even kills the ones trying to flee.
The morality that Israel's wants will trump
Palestinian lives shows the western / Christian /Jewish minimization of Muslim lives.

This is absurd.

You complain of 200+ hostages still alive.
But not 7,000+ Palestinian lives lost, & 17,000+ injured.
I focus far more on Palestinians because they're the
ones doing the lion's share of suffering at the hands
of a powerful state that's put boots on necks for most
of a century....leading to the conflict we see.
Israel owns this violence.

Hamas owns this violence as well, sir. Hamas intended this violence. It is a conscious strategy. This is asymmetric warfare. And the Palestinians who have been living under the boot of Hamas do indeed deserve justice.

 

[Lyndon]

You engage in blood libel with disturbing ease and despicable candor.

And you have gone from left wing pro Palestinian to right wing pro war and destruction overnight

 

[We Never Know]

Not quite.
I'm looking at invasions, both Ukraine & Gaza.

If you don't like my comparison, that's OK.

To ensure against terrorist attacks is a matter of degree.
Consider that here in USA we don't try to prevent all
possible attacks because that would require severe
repression. Israel appears to strike a far difference
balance, ie, kill many innocent Palestinians to get
every last terrorist. And in the process, Israel commits
war crimes.

Agree.

Motivations change.
It now that Israel is clearing Gaza of
Palestinians, either by death or diaspora.
Do you approve of what Israel is doing?

"I'm looking at invasions, both Ukraine & Gaza"

Isn't the big picture goal of Russia to eliminate Ukraine and make the territory Russia?
Ukraine is fighting the war against Russia to prevent that.

Isn't the big picture goal of Hamas to eliminate Israel and make the territory an Islamic one?
Israel is fighting the war against Hamas to prevent that.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The issue is not who wants the strip of land, but, rather, who wants to obliterate every trace of Israel from the river to the sea. Your indifference to that genocidal threat speaks volumes.

It appears Israel’s answer to that perceived genocidal threat, is to murder everyone in Gaza. I won’t accuse you of indifference to that genocidal reaction, because I have no evidential basis on which to make such an accusation. In fact I very much doubt you are indifferent.

But there is no more justification for Israel’s brutal massacre of the innocents, than there is for the equally brutal actions of Hamas. This, I think you’ll find, is what the whole world outside of Israel and the US is seeing.

 

[Lyndon]

Its basically genocidal fascists vs genocidal fascists

 

[Little Dragon]

It appears Israel’s answer to that perceived genocidal threat, is to murder everyone in Gaza. I won’t accuse you of indifference to that genocidal reaction, because I have no evidential basis on which to make such an accusation. In fact I very much doubt you are indifferent.

But there is no more justification for Israel’s brutal massacre of the innocents, than there is for the equally brutal actions of Hamas. This, I think you’ll find, is what the whole world outside of Israel and the US is seeing.

Unfortunately you are right. I support Israel, however I do believe the IDF is using a very big club, bigger than necessary imo. The daily shelling and bombing of Gaza, is hard to watch, hard to see the casualty rate keep climbing. I am not a military commander, I do not know what the tactical aims of the IDF are exactly. Since the attacks are widespread and sustained with varied targets and arguably indiscriminate targeting.
I think Gaza has got the message. I think if this is how it is going to go on, then I don't see how that is objectively beneficial, for anyone. Not for Israel's reputation and legal exposure and certainly not for the Palestinian children getting blown to smithereens. This increasingly disproportionate response empowers enemy nations like Iran. It gives them ammunition, in their info wars.
I am bitterly disappointed with the Israeli government to be honest. I would like them to have mercy on the people of Gaza, I think they understand the gravity of what happened. Not that they share collective responsibility for it. Hamas do. Have mercy Israel.

 

[Revoltingest]

Facts aren't personal. It doesn't work.

Facts are indeed often personal.
And even more so is giving significance to some, but not others.

Surgical, how? What are they not doing that they should be doing, or doing differently? Be specific.

I've too little time left today to get into
the minutiae of close quarter combat.

Oh what nonsense.

On that note, I'll move on to other
posters with the time I have left.

 

[Revoltingest]

"I'm looking at invasions, both Ukraine & Gaza"

Isn't the big picture goal of Russia to eliminate Ukraine and make the territory Russia?
Ukraine is fighting the war against Russia to prevent that.

Isn't the big picture goal of Hamas to eliminate Israel and make the territory an Islamic one?
Israel is fighting the war against Hamas to prevent that.

I've already dealt with this misunderstanding.

 

[Left Coast]

Facts are indeed often personal.
And even more so is giving significance to some, but not others.

I've too little time left today to get into
the minutiae of close quarter combat.

On that note, I'll move on to other
posters with the time I have left.

I don't see any substantive reply here to anything I previously said, so I'll leave it there as well.

 

[Left Coast]

It appears Israel’s answer to that perceived genocidal threat, is to murder everyone in Gaza.

Oh what baseless garbage. This hyperbolic nonsense is not helpful to a conversation about this war.

 

[We Never Know]

I've already dealt with this misunderstanding.

What's misunderstood?

 

[RestlessSoul]

I very much doubt that.

The reasons behind the conflict are obviously relevant.

There is no right and wrong here; there is only wrong. There is no light “but only darkness visible, serving to illumine scenes of woe.” If you can’t see that, and feel compelled to pick a side in this mayhem, then your moral compass may have gone astray imo.

 

[Left Coast]

There is no right and wrong here; there is only wrong. There is no light “but only darkness visible, serving to illumine scenes of woe.” If you can’t see that, and feel compelled to pick a side in this mayhem, then your moral compass may have gone astray imo.

If it's tough for you to "pick a side" between a liberal democracy who just suffered the worst attack on their population since the Holocaust and the terrorists who carried out that attack who use civilians as shields to maximize casualties on their own side, I would suggest you take the plank out of your own eye before you chide anyone else for their moral compass.

 

[Sargonski]

If it's tough for you to "pick a side" between a liberal democracy who just suffered the worst attack on their population since the Holocaust and the terrorists who carried out that attack who use civilians as shields to maximize casualties on their own side, I would suggest you take the plank out of your own eye before you chide anyone else for their moral compass.

Oh what blistering apology for atrocity coupled with sarcasm fallacy and hypocrisy .. and blatant falsehood .. coupled with lack of understanding of the term used "Human Sheild"

Picking sides in a blood fued only serves to prolong and exacerbate the situation.. the comparison to the Holocaust .. ironic Orwellian Doublespeak .. as the one attack by Hamas was nowhere near anything like the Holocaust .. it was them who are in the concentration camp .. the overlords treating them as did the Nazi's in the early days .. treating them as subhuman Animals .. not just Hamas but all the palestinians in Gaza and the Occupied territories .. near daily atrocities .. Shooting unarmed protestors at random .. conducting raids . .. pogroms .. stealing land .. and from time to time "mowing the lawn" .. bombing water treatment facilities .. 1000 lb bombs on crowded apartment blocks .. . the list goes on and on.

You have your eyesight backwards friend .. been sucking on that Purple Propaganda Kookaid .. and nothing else .. for decades and so up and down are all reversed.. so listen here .. In the German Story .. the Germans are oppressors .. the Jewish folks the oppressed .. the nazi put them in camps .. restricted movement and economic activity .. treated them as sub-human .. and so on.

In the Story today .. is Israel who are the Oppressor .. the occupier .. commiting massive war crime and crime against humanity .. over this 70 year blood feud.

Now that eyesight fixed .. perhaps your moral compass will recover .. Go Palestine ! Boo Israel .. Boo Biden .. war criminals .. should be put through the neuremburg process .. guilty as Charged.

You been sold quite the bill of goods friend .. Those thousands of Palestinian Babies just been murdered was a war crime .. "Full Stop" .. the collective punishment of the Palestinians .. a "Crime against Humanity" .. Full Stop.

Not my words friend .. so don't cry and throw anti-semetic names at me -- as did Bibi's representative at the UN .. to the head .. crying out that he should resign .. for stating what we all know is true and has been true long before October 7 .. Someone cancelled history .. made up a story .. and .. well .. that story was false friend .. hope you didn't pay to much for that source info ...

 

[Left Coast]

Oh what blistering apology for atrocity coupled with sarcasm fallacy and hypocrisy .. and blatant falsehood .. coupled with lack of understanding of the term used "Human Sheild"

When you can correctly spell shield, you can start trying to lecture me on it.

As before, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Sargonski]

When you can correctly spell shield, you can start trying to lecture me on it.

As before, you don't know what you're talking about.

Spelling Nazism is the lamist of fallacy ... Mr. Don't know what your talking about .. you havn't the faintest idea what constitutes a war crime .. nor the faintest idea what constitutes a human sheild .. your definition making all of Israel Human Shields .

Is that so sparky .. tell us true tell us why .. you think Dresden Bombing of Israel is Justified because all the Israeli's are being used as Human Sheilds .. along with mass war crimes and crimes against humanity .. perfectly fine because .. Israel uses Human Sheilds People are embedded with the military in Israel .. same as Hamas in Palestine. ... worse in Israel actually .. but which is worse matters not .. as once they are human sheilds .. baby killing is fair game .. according to you. and all you got in response is Spelling Nazi Fallacy .. crying out "Don't lecture me .. you don't know what you are talking about cause you got a word wrong in the spelling Bee" ..

What a humorous laugh of an argument friend .. or lack there of .. valid argument I mean .. do you know what an argument is ? can teach you that as well Brother Left ..

 

[We Never Know]

Hand to hand combat.
Indiscriminate bombing with the hope of Hamas
fighters dying along with civilians is a war crime.

Here's what I propose....
Israel, the US, Britain, UK and whomever wants the cowardly terrorist group Hamas destroyed should all join up for a ground invasion and eliminate Hamas to extiction.
Then destroy all the tunnels, help build back Gaza for the innocent Palestinians to live a peaceful life without the terrorist group Hamas in governing control.
Sadly some more innocent lives will surely be lost but so will more in the long run if Hamas is left to do their thing.

 

[Copernicus]

Here's what I propose....
Israel, the US, Britain, UK and whomever wants the cowardly terrorist group Hamas destroyed should all join up for a ground invasion and eliminate Hamas to extiction.
Then destroy all the tunnels, help build back Gaza for the innocent Palestinians to live a peaceful life without the terrorist group Hamas in governing control.
Sadly some more innocent lives will surely be lost but so will more in the long run if Hamas is left to do their thing.

On the bright side, the lives lost are far away on another continent and don't involve you, your family, your neighbors, or your loved ones.

 

[Left Coast]

Insightful commentary on the misguided calls for a ceasefire, Netanyahu's failures, and what may come next in the war if the PA obtains control in Gaza: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/10/24/israel-gaza-peace-strategy-political-offensive/