...............JEHOVAH!.................

[Kathryn]

I recognize that. But Christians have used it along with others. You associated it with the demonic, just as the Jews in the Bible time associated the cross with Tammuz, and his fertility symbol the earliest cross, the mystic Tau. (Ezekiel 8)

Well, I believe that God knows my heart. And He is in control of things.

 

[I Am Hugh]

His Hebrew name was Shaul, like the sheol (hell) in Habakkuk 2.

Habakkuk 2:5 Interlinear: And also, because the wine is treacherous, A man is haughty, and remaineth not at home, Who hath enlarged as sheol his soul, And is as death that is not satisfied, And doth gather unto itself all the nations, And doth assemb

Yeah, so, like I was saying in the last post I made regarding variations in translations and transliterations, they differ. Saul is the English transliteration of whatever Hebrew transliteration used for Shaul. Paul for Paulos.

 

[I Am Hugh]

Well, I believe that God knows my heart. And He is in control of things.

I don't know as much as people tend to assume I do, but I do know that.

 

[Coder]

In Catholicism we see many adaptations from prior religion in symbols, prayers, holidays, practices. The intention was to lead people to monotheism.

 

[Kathryn]

In Catholicism we see many adaptations from prior religion in symbols, prayers, holidays, practices. The intention was to lead them to monotheism. The Roman empire was a treacherous and difficult place.

And you know what? Someone can make a case against celebrating Christmas with a tree, or whatever, but it really doesn't matter to me because I know why I am celebrating Christmas with a tree. It has nothing to do with paganism and everything to do with celebrating the birth of Jesus.

Easter? Named after paganism? So what? What does it mean to ME? I mean, most people use the names of the days of the week, and those are named after "pagan gods." So, yeah. Shut up.

 

[I Am Hugh]

In Catholicism we see many adaptations from prior religion in symbols, prayers, holidays, practices. The intention was to lead them to monotheism. The Roman empire was a treacherous and difficult place.

As treacherous and difficult spiritually as the current and final empire.

 

[I Am Hugh]

And you know what? Someone can make a case against celebrating Christmas with a tree, or whatever, but it really doesn't matter to me because I know why I am celebrating Christmas with a tree. It has nothing to do with paganism and everything to do with celebrating the birth of Jesus.

Easter? Named after paganism? So what? What does it mean to ME? I mean, most people use the names of the days of the week, and those are named after "pagan gods." So, yeah. Shut up.

Well, no, not shut up. Let everyone speak.

The Golden calf was an Egyptian idol, the Israelites adopted it for a "festival to Jehovah," dancing and singing. Jehovah was not amused. So, it isn't what we care about, it's about what God cares about. The question then becomes do we care about what we (from Adam) care about or do we care about what we can see God cares about?

 

[Coder]

And you know what? Someone can make a case against celebrating Christmas with a tree, or whatever, but it really doesn't matter to me because I know why I am celebrating Christmas with a tree. It has nothing to do with paganism...

I put up decorations including the trees sometimes. They have no inherent meaning regarding belief in God, agree! They are beautiful decorations!

 

[Coder]

...the days of the week, and those are named after "pagan gods." ...

So true. I'm not superstitious about it, but I don't like using the word "Sun"day, knowing that it based on the "Sun" god. I use the word, of course and perhaps we can simply give it a new meaning in our minds, but still, it's the same word that we do use to mean the sun when speaking of the sun. It still gives a sense that we are cooperating with Roman empire religion. I don't care for it, but I'm not sure how to view it.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, no, not shut up. Let everyone speak.

The Golden calf was an Egyptian idol, the Israelites adopted it for a "festival to Jehovah," dancing and singing. Jehovah was not amused. So, it isn't what we care about, it's about what God cares about. The question then becomes do we care about what we (from Adam) care about or do we care about what we can see God cares about?

The Israelites were worshipping the Golden Calf. I am not worshipping any symbols.

 

[Kathryn]

So true. I'm not superstitious about it, but I don't like using the word "Sun"day, knowing that it based on the "Sun" god.

Monday - named after the moon.
Tuesday - named after Mars
Wednesday - named after Mercury (Odin or Woden)
Thursday - named after Jupiter (Thor!)
Friday - named after Frigga or Venus
Saturday - named after Saturn

 

[I Am Hugh]

The Israelites were worshipping the Golden Calf. I am not worshipping any symbols.

Okay, how? basic definition of worship: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity; show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites. Why would you use the cross in association with the pentagram painted on the ceiling by the teenager? Talisman: an object, typically an inscribed ring or stone, that is thought to have magic powers and to bring good luck. Idol: an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship. Examples, golden calf, cross. The cross is a phallic symbol. The Bible doesn't teach Jesus died on a cross. I mentioned Tammuz, his cross God was insulted by, as it was figuratively shoved in his face when the women carved it in the temple while worshipping Tammuz. Tammuz, the Sumerian king Dumuzi, was deified upon death as was the Sumerian custom. He was also known in the Bible as Nimrod. When God scattered the people at the tower of Babel, they took their customs with them. So, the cross, like the story of the flood and giants, appears all over the globe. The Christian missionaries were often surprised to see it already in use by the "uncivilized heathens" they traveled to preach to. Then later it made its way into Christianity. 400 years after Christ.

 

[Kathryn]

Okay, basic definition of worship: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity; show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites. Why would you use the cross in association with the pentagram painted on the ceiling by the teenager? Talisman: an object, typically an inscribed ring or stone, that is thought to have magic powers and to bring good luck. Idol: an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship. Examples, golden calf, cross. The cross is a phallic symbol. The Bible doesn't teach Jesus died on a cross. I mentioned Tammuz, his cross God was insulted by, as it was figuratively shoved in his face when the women carved it in the temple while worshipping Tammuz. Tammuz, the Sumerian king Dumuzi, was deified upon death as was the Sumerian custom. He was also known in the Bible as Nimrod. When God scattered the people at the tower of Babel, they took their customs with them. So, the cross, like the story of the flood and giants, appears all over the globe. The Christian missionaries were often surprised to see it already in use by the "uncivilized heathens" they traveled to preach to. Then later it made its way into Christianity. 400 years after Christ.

You called the crucifix a talisman, not me.

 

[cataway]

In Catholicism we see many adaptations from prior religion in symbols, prayers, holidays, practices. The intention was to lead them to monotheism. The Roman empire was a treacherous and difficult place.

cant muddy the water an call it good

 

[cataway]

You called the crucifix a talisman, not me.

talisman​

noun​

tal·is·man ˈta-ləs-mən
-ləz-

Synonyms of
1
: an object held to act as a charm to avert evil and bring good fortune

2
: something producing apparently magical or miraculous effects

 

[Coder]

The Bible doesn't teach Jesus died on a cross.

Catholicism teaches it and in Catholicism, the teachings of Tradition are on par with Scripture.

To make real progress we have to understand why people consider the Bible authoritative to begin with. Isn't it really from Catholicism, the idea that the Bible is to be listened to?

 

[Kathryn]

Catholicism teaches it and in Catholicism, the teachings of Tradition are on par with Scripture.

To make real progress we have to understand why people consider the bible authoritative to begin with. Isn't it really from Catholicism, the idea that the Bible is to be listened to?

Gasp. You used THE BIG C.

 

[I Am Hugh]

You called the crucifix a talisman, not me.

Yes. Crucifix means to fasten to something. Prometheus, for example, was crucified; fastened to the ground or rock. Jesus was crucified (fastened) to an upright pole. The Hebrew torture stake. Single piece. The Greek word used is stauros, which can mean an upright pole or any variation of a cross. The T shaped Tau from Tammuz, the X shaped cross, other shapes. The cross goes back long before Jesus. It was used as a fertility symbol like the ichthys (fish) symbol also used later by Pagan/Christians and the Pentagram.

The thing is, during Jesus' time the Romans were doing a lot of crucifying in an arid climate without many trees. Why use more wood than was needed. Just one piece. Though the Greek word stauros can mean a pole or various shaped cross, the Greek word xylon, which was also used to describe what Jesus died upon, was also used and can only mean a single upright pole, timber or tree. For example, the LXX translates xylon from the Hebrew at Ezra 6:11. (Luke 23:31; Acts 5:30; 10:39) Jesus didn't die on a t shaped cross.

 

[Coder]

Yes. Crucifix means to fasten to something. Prometheus, for example, was crucified; fastened to the ground or rock. Jesus was crucified (fastened) to an upright pole. The Hebrew torture stake. Single piece. The Greek word used is stauros, which can mean an upright pole or any variation of a cross. The T shaped Tau from Tammuz, the X shaped cross, other shapes. The cross goes back long before Jesus. It was used as a fertility symbol like the ichthys (fish) symbol also used later by Pagan/Christians and the Pentagram.

The thing is, during Jesus' time the Romans were doing a lot of crucifying in an arid climate without many trees. Why use more wood than was needed. Just one piece. Though the Greek word stauros can mean a pole or various shaped cross, the Greek word xylon, which was also used to describe what Jesus died upon, was also used and can only mean a single upright pole, timber or tree. For example, the LXX translates xylon from the Hebrew at Ezra 6:11. (Luke 23:31; Acts 5:30; 10:39) Jesus didn't die on a t shaped cross.

Is this superstition about symbols?

 

[I Am Hugh]

Catholicism teaches it and in Catholicism, the teachings of Tradition are on par with Scripture.

To make real progress we have to understand why people consider the Bible authoritative to begin with. Isn't it really from Catholicism, the idea that the Bible is to be listened to?

Not for me. There is the Biblical, theological, and traditional. For me, the Bible is as authoritative as it gets. I didn't think Catholics even used the Bible, I always thought (by the Catholics I knew growing up) that the tradition was much more important than the Bible. Then you have to recognize that theology and tradition supposedly comes from the Bible, but more often than not it is supplemented by other influences. Plato, Socrates, Constantine, for example. Then religion is always syncretistic, IMO, so truth mixed with myth and fable. You have to dig and poke around to get to the pure truth.