Jesus in India

[fantome profane]

I'm not a crackpot either, nor a Hindu nationalist. I'm not even Indian. But as I said before, there is no proof or disproof of the possibility of Jesus having some kind of contact with the east. There are too many similarities between eastern thought and Jesus's true core teachings to be coincidence. A lot of philosophy and religion has made its way between east and west over the milennia. Why some aspects of Jesus's teachings should not be influenced by other sources is not implausible.



Well, now you know. And from a reliable internet source, no less!

Why? If there is truth to these common core ideas is it not possibe that they could have been discovered or intuited by separate cultures? Do you have any idea how many inventions have been created by two different people independently?

 

[Jainarayan]

It's certainly possible. I'm not making a definitive statement one way or the other. But one has to consider the relative geographical closeness of the areas in question, the trade that was conducted, as well as the common philosophical, religious and mythological themes throughout southwest and south Asia. My gut tells me there was sharing.

And then there are statements from Jesus and Krishna (who pre-dates Jesus by ~1,000 years):

'I am the beginning, the middle, and the end' (BG 10:20 vs. Rev. 1:8 ).

Krishna's mission was to give directions to 'the kingdom of God' (BG 2:72), and he warned of 'stumbling blocks' along the way (BG 3:34; 1 Cor. 1:23 ; Rev. 2:14).

The essential thrust of Krishna's sayings, uttered to a beloved disciple (Arjuna, in the Bhagavad Gita), sometimes seems to coincide with Jesus or the Bible.

Compare:
'those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead' (BG 2:11) with the sense of Jesus' advice to 'let the dead bury their own dead' (Matt. 8:22 ).

Krishna's saying, 'I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all' (BG 9:29) is a lot like the idea that God is no respecter of persons (Rom. 2:11 ).

And 'one who is equal to friends and enemies... is very dear to me' (BG 12:18) is reminiscent of 'love your enemies' (Matt. 5:44 ).

Krishna also said that 'by human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day' (BG 8:17), which is very similar to 2 Peter 3:8." 10

To which might be added:
Krishna's saying, 'I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all' (BG 9:29), whic resembles the concept that God is no respecter of persons (Rom. 2:11 ; see also Matt. 6:45 ).
Links between two god-men saviors: Jesus and Krishna

Take the statements with a grain of salt.

I'll go out on a limb and say there's some exchange of ideas in the Egyptian pyramids and Mesopotamian ziggurats. But if you throw in Mesoamerican pyramids... then I'm at a loss. Unless of course you consider

 

[cbachinger]

What would the DNA be compared to? I have to agree that with the Jewish diaspora being as extensive as it is, what would finding Jewish DNA in India prove? I'd bet you'll find Jewish DNA in Iraq from those Jews who did not leave Babylonia after the captivity. Where are the scrolls and documents? Do we have images of them? If so can someone translate from their original language? And where is it documented that he referred to himself as Jmmanuel? Hypotheses, theories and beliefs are all well and good, but they need proof.

Verifying that the body is approximately 1800 years old, will help clear the issue. it is obvious that we cant ID it in any IT system but the age of the remains will prove.

again i say, the scrolls are in the hemis monestary archives and explain how Jmmanuel travelled and taught through india, nepal and magadha. unfortunately the dalia lama ordered them shut until his return when he went into exile at a very young age; which explains why he hasnt heard of them. the original language is in pali but it has been translated into tibetan, as well as english, as shown in the book 'the unknown life of st. issa, the best of the sons of man' by nicolas notovich. i have a copy of it myself.

The closest images we have of them are in the film itself but below is a link with a view of the room containing the archives.
North India Photos # 2

I have also read the 'Talmud Jmmanuel', a chronicalised account of the claimed original 'Matthew gospel', which i standby to its announced authenticity. The original author is none other but Jmmanuel's trusted scribe and closest friend, the long-believed false betrayer Juda. it was unearthed in 1963 by Billy meier (heard of him?) with the aid of a friend (who was killed while translating the TJ scrolls) and guided by his ET friends the plejaren, in an effort to reteach us again the principles of spirituality and the basic wisdom of creation - the very subject that Jmmanuel had studied in India, etc. to reteach us 2000 years ago.
In the TJ, it emphasises on the wrong name given to the man we have come to know as jesus 'the anointed one'. Jmmanuel means 'one with godly wisdom' and that describes his knowledge incredibly well, considering the time period that he lived in; people didnt even no what table clothes were! ha ha!

 

[cbachinger]

so u still see the evidence that ive presented to still be theories? testimonials and research is not enough?

 

[paarsurrey]

Given that there is absolutely no reason to doubt that the Jewish diaspora extended to India, what do you think such testing would prove?

The DNA of Jesus' remains in Kashmir and DNA of the blood stains on the shroud of Turin will bring out much useful information, I think.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The DNA of Jesus' remains in Kashmir and DNA of the blood stains on the shroud of Turin will bring out much useful information, I think.

Good grief ... it's hopeless!

 

[Jainarayan]

I posted something like the following in another thread on another more highly controversial topic (I'm paraphrasing myself):

"You (plural) know what... ?

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and what they feel in their hearts. No one can categorically and unequivocally prove or disprove Jesus ... did or did not exist or go live in India and come back with the wisdom of the east and teach it. If you think and feel Jesus did or did not, go for it. That he taught some things that sound very Hindu and Buddhist is what it is. If you want to believe it, believe it; if you don't, then don't. It's really a no-brainer."

Personally I believe it's quite plausible, but I can't prove it nor disprove it, nor do I care to. My beliefs (or wishful thinking, to some) are my own. So on that note, I bid this Mobius Strip of a thread a fond farewell.

 

[cbachinger]

The core reason for me to start this topic, is because we are not just talking about any man who lived centuries ago.

We're talking about a man who was born to deliberately and intensively preach about love, compassion, ethics and the basic wisdom of Creation, etc. to all mankind but whose teachings has been so severely corrupted by the modern church as well as other religions, to a point that major power rests within them and leaders will do anything to maintain that power, threatening anyone who doesnt obey!

So, as much as i respect what you say (and we all have the freedom to decide for ourselves of course ), for me simply believing in this is not enough.
And of course, there will be those who will eventually 'see it' and those who wont 'see it'.

 

[paarsurrey]

Good grief ... it's hopeless!

Why the facepalm?

 

[outhouse]

Why the facepalm?

because its past rediculous :slap:

 

[outhouse]

We're talking about a man who was born to deliberately and intensively preach about love, compassion, ethics and the basic wisdom of Creation, etc.

False

he was a Galilean jew oppresssed by romans, he died fighting the corrupt treasury in the temple, standing up for the common man.

 

[Curious George]

False

he was a Galilean jew oppresssed by romans, he died fighting the corrupt treasury in the temple, standing up for the common man.

I think that the proposed theory is dealing with the character in the story of the bible not a historical Chuy.

 

[outhouse]

I think that the proposed theory is dealing with the character in the story of the bible not a historical Chuy.

and is he also dealing with mythology only in india? because thats not there either


the only evidence is a known crackpot who made bogus claims on his deathbed

 

[Curious George]

and is he also dealing with mythology only in india? because thats not there either


the only evidence is a known crackpot who made bogus claims on his deathbed

Actually, I think there would be two "crackpots" and perhaps a group of "crackpot" monks. But, I am suggesting to entertain this concept you would have to remove yourself from history and apply imagination to myth. To use what we believe of a historical Chuy will only confound the results. Since the historical Jesus is different from the biblical Chuy.

 

[cbachinger]

because its past rediculous :slap:

you dont see the research, reasoning and evidence?

 

[cbachinger]

False

he was a Galilean jew oppresssed by romans, he died fighting the corrupt treasury in the temple, standing up for the common man.

he was disliked by the local religious leaders who persecuted him and ran him into the romans, who also eventually made fun of him and it wasnt just the money, it was the whole system benefiting only the leaders and not everyone else; havent you read the bible?

 

[cbachinger]

when will people stop using the word 'think' and rather use a word more convincing and confident?

this word is used so often today in the most significant of public speeches, that i roll my eyes to whoever says it.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I don't deny or disbelieve he could have lived and studied there. Remember, I conjectured an accounting of the 18 years, including travel time. But what is the bona-fide proof? What would the DNA be compared to? I have to agree that with the Jewish diaspora being as extensive as it is, what would finding Jewish DNA in India prove? I'd bet you'll find Jewish DNA in Iraq from those Jews who did not leave Babylonia after the captivity. Where are the scrolls and documents? Do we have images of them? If so can someone translate from their original language? And where is it documented that he referred to himself as Jmmanuel? Having been raised Roman Catholic and practiced Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy for 30 years, this is a new one for me. Hypotheses, theories and beliefs are all well and good, but they need proof.

It wouldn't be proof, but it would be compelling evidence. Why?

If you find a body of a Jewish woman, who died at the appropriate age, in a place named Muree, where she is claimed to be by a narrative that claims that Jesus survived crucifixion and traveled to Kashmir, and then you find a body in the Rozabal, having died at the appropriate age, which bears signs of crucifixion injuries, which is shown to be the son of the woman in Muree, and both shown to be Jewish, with both bodies 2000~ years old...

Yep, I'd call that compelling evidence in backing up that narrative. Certainly more compelling than anything else we have on his life.

The fact that there's already a narrative that makes the claims that the bodies would corroborate is also significant, rather than just finding two Jewish bodies and constructing a narrative around them.

Also...

Many of the place names there can be correlated to biblical place names. There's also a "Throne of Solomon" in the Kashmir vale. The grave of Moses is said to be nearby in Bethpeor as well. Find a body there of the appropriate age / genetic markers and... yeah, wow.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Let's review the evidence:

1. Nicolas Notovitch's "The Life of Issa." which he claimed to have copied from a manuscript in Hemis monastery. This claim has been alternately refuted or verified by subsequent investigators.

2. The Bhavishya Mahapurana's account of King Shalivahana:

There, in the Land of the Hun (= Ladakh, a part of the Kushan empire), the powerful king saw a handsome man sitting on a mountain, who seemed to promise auspiciousness. His skin was like copper and he wore white garments. The king asked the holy man who he was. The other replied: 'I am called Isaputra (son of God), born of a virgin, minister of the non-believers, relentlessly in search of the truth.'

O king, lend your ear to the religion that I brought unto the non-believers ... Through justice, truth, meditation, and unity of spirit, man will find his way to Isa (God, in Sanskrit) who dwells in the centre of Light, who remains as constant as the sun, and who dissolves all transient things forever. The blissful image of Isa, the giver of happiness, was revealed in the heart; and I was called Isa-Masih.

3. Acta Thomae, which records this:

“Thomas after the ceremonies left the palace. The bridegroom (Abdagases) lifted the curtain that separated him from his bride. He saw Thomas, as he supposed, conversing with her. Then he asked in surprise: ‘How Canst though be found here? Did I not see thee go out before all?’ And the Lord answered: ‘I am not Thomas, but his brother.’”
(Ante-Nicene Christian Library, Edinburgh, T&T Clark, 25 Vols. 1869, Vol. 20:46)

Thomas was called as Didymus, meaning twin, for his very close resemblance to Jesus.


4. The shrine at Rozabal and the physical evidence there - ie, the carving of feet with crucifixion wounds, and the local legends regarding Jesus there.


5. The account of crucifixion discovered in Alexandria, and hosted here: Full text of "The crucifixion, by an eye-witness; a letter, written seven years after the crucifixion"

This has Jesus being tended to and medically revived in Joseph's tomb.

6. Muslim histories of San Isa / Yuz Asaf of which there are several.

7. Chinese Account of Yesu in the "Glass Mirror" which mentions his philosophy in Asia.

Tomb of Jesus website is a good resource.

 

[outhouse]

he was disliked by the local religious leaders who persecuted him and ran him into the romans, who also eventually made fun of him and it wasnt just the money, it was the whole system benefiting only the leaders and not everyone else; havent you read the bible?

the bible is not accurate in any sense.

the real jews had no part in his death. only the Saducees, and pilates and Caiaphas wanting peace to keep raking in the money

anyone startinmg trouble in the treasury would be put to death without a trial.



with up to 400,000 people in attendance at passover, a poor poverty stricken peasant teacher/healer would be invisible in a sea of healers and preachers talking very simular messages. jesus was not unique in any way shape or form.