Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible

[Fatihah]

No he doesn't?

He says that the rabbis would be worshipping God in vain, because they don't follow what God has taught and they follow teachings of men instead. This was often done by the way that they interpreted Biblical verses.

Response: Exactly. The doctrine that Jesus is God or that he has divinity is not from him and is not his teaching. So those who say otherwise and worship him like the rabbis are doing so in vain. In John 7: 16, Jesus says, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me". If Jesus was God or divine, he wouldn't denounce his own doctrine and say it belongs to someone else.

 

[Breathe]

Response: Exactly. The doctrine that Jesus is God or that he has divinity is not from him and is not his teaching. So those who say otherwise and worship him like the rabbis are doing so in vain. In John 7: 16, Jesus says, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me". If Jesus was God or divine, he wouldn't denounce his own doctrine and say it belongs to someone else.

Whilst I agree with you Jesus was not divine (I believe Jesus was only a messenger/prophet/guru, personally), I do believe there is reason for the Christian belief in Jesus being divine and begotten of God within the New Testament, this does not mean I subscribe to this though, but John 1 also has a big intro that is believed to show Jesus was God.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God ... <snip> ... the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us". (John 1).

Thus they have reason to believe it; whether or not Jesus taught it is a different matter, but obviously something must have led for them to believe it, because one would have expected the disciples of Jesus to have attacked Paul for his claims if not.

 

[Caladan]

Response: Yes, but Jesus never claims divinity out of his own mouth. In fact, in Matthew 15:9, Jesus says, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching (for) doctrines the commandments of men."

Im curious did you make this interpretation up yourself, ignorant of the common understanding of the verse?
This is a completely out of context interpretation, which we all know what its rooted in.

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
this verse refers to those people who followed the commandmants of man, and not of God, or more specifically those Pharisees who have added to the law of God, it is not aimed at anyone who mistakenly worships Jesus.

 

[Breathe]

or more specifically those Pharisees who have added to the law of God, Jesus is not aiming it at anyone who mistakenly worships him.

Absolutely right!

Isn't there a verse in the Torah (I think?) that says You shall not boil a kid (baby goat to all unsure, not a child. LOL ) in its mothers' milk, and that's why you can't eat meat and dairy together? This is what I've heard for the basis of it.

And another one why women shouldn't be heard singing is supposed to be from Song of Solomon where it says "your voice is sweet", and sweet is written identical/almost identical to "naked".

I may be wrong though, it's been a while!

These are the kind of things that I believe Jesus was talking about about the doctrines of men, Fatihah.

 

[Fatihah]

Im curious did you make this interpretation up yourself, ignorant of the common understanding of the verse?
This is a completely out of context interpretation, which we all know what its rooted in.

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
this verse refers to those people who followed the commandmants of man, and not of God, or more specifically those Pharisees who have added to the law of God, it is not aimed at anyone who mistakenly worships Jesus.

Response: Yes it does because no where in the bible did Jesus say he is God or worship him. Therefore it is a man-made concept.

 

[Caladan]

Response: Yes it does because no where in the bible did Jesus say he is God or worship him. Therefore it is a man-made concept.

Strawman. you are inventing new interpretations to justify your dogma.
I can just as easily tear apart the Qur'an and claim any ayat in the Qur'an is a commandment of man and not of God because it falls short of meeting my standards.

 

[Rasif Najeeb]

Quran unequivocally says Jesus was Prophet. I haven't read the Bible completely to know what does the Bible unequivocally say? But Bible does say in different places -

"And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee." - Matthew 21:11


"Nevertheless I (Jesus) must walk to day, and to morrow, and the [day] following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." - Luke 13:33


And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. - Matthew 13:57


Is there a verse in Bible which says - Jesus is God and to worship him?

 

[Fatihah]

Quran unequivocally says Jesus was Prophet. I haven't read the Bible completely to know what does the Bible unequivocally say? But Bible does say in different places -

"And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee." - Matthew 21:11


"Nevertheless I (Jesus) must walk to day, and to morrow, and the [day] following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." - Luke 13:33


And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. - Matthew 13:57


Is there a verse in Bible which says - Jesus is God and to worship him?

Response: No there isn't. The stories of Jesus in the Bible are much harder to swallow than those in the qur'an. Jesus is said to have made water into wine. The qur'an does not speak of Jesus in this way.

 

[Fatihah]

Strawman. you are inventing new interpretations to justify your dogma.
I can just as easily tear apart the Qur'an and claim any ayat in the Qur'an is a commandment of man and not of God because it falls short of meeting my standards.

Response: No where in the bible does Jesus say he is God or worship him. That's not an interpretation. That's a fact.

 

[Rasif Najeeb]

What's so hard to swallow? If he can raise the dead, why can't he make wine from water?
The point is not about his miracles.
The issue is - as per Bible did Jesus claim to be God or one-third God? Though it's clear that he did claim to be a Prophet.

 

[Shahzad]

Oh Christ! If you'd ever read the Gospels properly you'd know this and you wouldn't make such ignorant claims.

From Matthew 16:

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Fatihah]

What's so hard to swallow? If he can raise the dead, why can't he make wine from water?


Response: Well it is quite natural to assume that if Jesus is to be God or a prophet, the act of giving his followers wine is not the best of judgement.

 

[FineWithMe]

Hi Shahzad

What does Bible actually say?

Is Jesus prophet
"And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee." - Matthew 21:11
"Nevertheless I (Jesus) must walk to day, and to morrow, and the [day] following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." - Luke 13:33
And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. - Matthew 13:57

Is Jesus God
Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone - Mark 10:18
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me - Matthew 27:46
Jesus is addressing God. I don't think Bible says he is God

Is Jesus Son of God
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. - Mathew 16:16

Is Jesus the "only" son of God?
Adam, which was the son of God. - Luke 3:38
Israel is my son, even my firstborn - Exodus 4:22
Ye are the children of the LORD your God - Deuteronomy 14:1

Reading all this - a possible conclusion is that he is a Prophet and he is son of God like other prophets are also sons of God. i.e. - its a metaphorical usage.

 

[ayani]

understandably, the Quran and the Gospels say very different things about Jesus.

the Gospels do say that Jesus is a prophet. yet they also describe Him as more than a prophet- as Messiah, and as Someone wholly unique.

the Quran attributes a great amount of honor to Isa al-Masih, and records him doing things no one else in the Quran is recorded as doing. the Quran records that Jesus was supported with the Ruh Quddus, and that He was born of a virgin, Maryam.

in the Gospels, Jesus also attributes His powers and gifts to God, and says clearly that He does what He sees God do, and by God's power. The Gospels show that He has the power of God to forgive sins, raise the dead, give life, and control the elements.

other figures in the Bible such as Moses and Elijah are recorded as doing similar things. yet these figures are shown to work their miracles after asking God for divine help, and through them, God worked miracles. in Jesus' case, while He gives His Father the credit for His miracles, He does not generally first pray for the ability to do so, he simply does these things in the power of God, by the authority given to Him and innately available to Him at all times.

Jesus' Sonship according to Christians can be traced to the Biblical narration of the virgin birth. both of our faiths agree that Jesus was born of a virgin. Christian understand that Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit- so the fathering aspect that brought Jesus into the world in human form was God. not only His will, but His Spirit. so because of this, we say Jesus is God's Son.

the Quran records a similar story, but does not conclude that Isa is the son of Allah, or that Allah begat Isa. in fact it is stated in the Quran that Allah does not beget anything or anyone.

so there are a kot of similarities, but differences, too.

 

[Riverwolf]

in the Gospels, Jesus also attributes His powers and gifts to God, and says clearly that He does what He sees God do, and by God's power. The Gospels show that He has the power of God to forgive sins, raise the dead, give life, and control the elements.

other figures in the Bible such as Moses and Elijah are recorded as doing similar things. yet these figures are shown to work their miracles after asking God for divine help, and through them, God worked miracles. in Jesus' case, while He gives His Father the credit for His miracles, He does not generally first pray for the ability to do so, he simply does these things in the power of God, by the authority given to Him and innately available to Him at all times.

I don't know. Doesn't Jesus pray every night? Maybe that's what he's praying for.

 

[ayani]

River ~

i'm thinking of the miracles He does is broad daylight. doubtless He appealed to His Father nightly for strength, counsel, grace, and God's will to be done.

yet in daylight miracles, one sees that He generally doesn't first call upon God for help. doubtless His power is from the finger of God, yet He forgives sins and heals the sick and raises the dead of His own innate power, given Him by the Father and freely available at any time.

it's a unique thing, one we don't see elsewhere in the Bible, where one generally sees prophets vocally call upon God for an answer or miracle, listening for God's instructions, and then carrying them out. but these miracles are usually not things they can do on their own of God's power.

Jesus' miracles are unique in that regard, though other past prophets work similar miracles. Biblically, prophets can work miracles, though literally by God's permission. and Biblically, Jesus is a prophet and also Messiah, and Son.

 

[Riverwolf]

River ~

i'm thinking of the miracles He does is broad daylight. doubtless He appealed to His Father nightly for strength, counsel, grace, and God's will to be done.

yet in daylight miracles, one sees that He generally doesn't first call upon God for help. doubtless His power is from the finger of God, yet He forgives sins and heals the sick and raises the dead of His own innate power, given Him by the Father and freely available at any time.

it's a unique thing, one we don't see elsewhere in the Bible, where one generally sees prophets vocally call upon God for an answer or miracle, listening for God's instructions, and then carrying them out. but these miracles are usually not things they can do on their own of God's power.

Jesus' miracles are unique in that regard, though other past prophets work similar miracles. Biblically, prophets can work miracles, though literally by God's permission. and Biblically, Jesus is a prophet and also Messiah, and Son.

Okeydokey.

I really need to read the Nevi'im...

 

[ayani]

River ~

i'm thinking specifically of Moses' miracles in the Torah, and Elisha's and Elijah's miracles.

 

[Riverwolf]

River ~

i'm thinking specifically of Moses' miracles in the Torah, and Elisha's and Elijah's miracles.

I've only read the Torah twice, and not very well. (mostly just speed-reading)

I don't even know where Elisha and Elijah show up.

 

[ayani]

River ~

well, Elisha and Elijah aren't in the Torah. that's ok. in the Bible, one can read about them primarily in 1 Kings and 2 Kings.

try the website biblegateway.com