Response: But what makes a person believe and worship God? Is it because a book said so? What if the bible did not exist? Would you still believe in God? If so, would you still believe he is the most loving and fair and wisest?
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Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible
- Thread starter Fatihah
- Start date
Response: But what makes a person believe and worship God? Is it because a book said so? What if the bible did not exist? Would you still believe in God? If so, would you still believe he is the most loving and fair and wisest?
ayani
member
oh, i believe we are hard-wired by God to understand something of His existence, and seek Him.
my Christian faith wasn't based on any book, Bible or Quran, or what was written therein. initially, i didn't trust the Bible. i considered it corrupted, and not trustworthy. i believed it was full of fabrications and exaggerations, and had no interest in reading it, much less looking to it for religious truth.
i had always believed in a God, and could never see atheism or agnosticism as an option. outside of religious texts, it was Jesus' name which drew me to Christian faith. and if i did not have access to a Bible, i would still believe what Christians do believe about Jesus.
my Christian faith wasn't based on any book, Bible or Quran, or what was written therein. initially, i didn't trust the Bible. i considered it corrupted, and not trustworthy. i believed it was full of fabrications and exaggerations, and had no interest in reading it, much less looking to it for religious truth.
i had always believed in a God, and could never see atheism or agnosticism as an option. outside of religious texts, it was Jesus' name which drew me to Christian faith. and if i did not have access to a Bible, i would still believe what Christians do believe about Jesus.
Response: I agree. The qur'an did not make me believe in Allah. I believed that there was a higher power before I studied the qur'an. Now keeping in mind that there is no Bible, what is your take of God? Do you accept him as all loving and just and wise?
ayani
member
Fatihah ~
were i simply a theist, not a Christian, i would believe in a God, that he was ultimately in control, Almighty, and worth seeking and knowing.
but so far as what God is like, referring to His personality.... sans Christian faith or any text (including the Quran) i wouldn't have much to say about Who God is.
were i simply a theist, not a Christian, i would believe in a God, that he was ultimately in control, Almighty, and worth seeking and knowing.
but so far as what God is like, referring to His personality.... sans Christian faith or any text (including the Quran) i wouldn't have much to say about Who God is.
Response: I guess what I'm trying to learn from you is what makes you accept one scripture over others. What makes one true to you and the others not? You see, if a person says "because it says so", that would not make it true to me. Nothing is proven. There is the qur'an, the tanakh, the bible, the Hindu scriptures, the mormon scriptures, etc. How do you determine which is true of God?
Uh... yes it does. "keep himself apart for the Lord" means to be a holy man. Someone who is to dedicate their entire being to God, i.e., a holy man. Like a priest or an ascetic.
I don't know where it came from. Maybe it came from the way certain Rabbis were reading their Tanakhs.
ayani
member
well, my acceptance of the Bible as opposed to any other text didn't start with the text itself.
it started with an understanding by faith as to who Jesus was, and how God wanted me to believe in Him. from there, came an acceptance of the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) as telling true and reliable things about what Jesus said and did, and what happened to Him.
so a few days, i was intent on following only the Gospels, and nothing else. then, i noticed that in the Gospels, Jesus was referring to and directly quoting nearly every other book of the Old Testamant (Tawrut and Jewish Prophets) as authoritative and from God. so i reasoned that as i believe Jesus is from God and know what He is talking about when He talks about the things of God, i have no reason to doubt the earlier parts of the Bible.
from there, i read the rest of the NT. and i found that nothing in the rest of the NT contradicts what Jesus said. so, i began to see the Bible as a whole text, with One message from the same God. and from the point on, i've relied on the Bible as God's Word.
it started with an understanding by faith as to who Jesus was, and how God wanted me to believe in Him. from there, came an acceptance of the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) as telling true and reliable things about what Jesus said and did, and what happened to Him.
so a few days, i was intent on following only the Gospels, and nothing else. then, i noticed that in the Gospels, Jesus was referring to and directly quoting nearly every other book of the Old Testamant (Tawrut and Jewish Prophets) as authoritative and from God. so i reasoned that as i believe Jesus is from God and know what He is talking about when He talks about the things of God, i have no reason to doubt the earlier parts of the Bible.
from there, i read the rest of the NT. and i found that nothing in the rest of the NT contradicts what Jesus said. so, i began to see the Bible as a whole text, with One message from the same God. and from the point on, i've relied on the Bible as God's Word.
Response: Yes. And to be a Holy man, the verse says to abstain from wine.
Response: Why not?
Exactly.
Primarily because it's outdated. Not just in language, but also in the texts King James's scholars had available to them.
Modern translations are better because we now have more texts to go off of.
The KJV was great for its time. But its time is long up.
ayani
member
through Islam. the Quran mentions Isa, likened to the Biblical Jesus. i had heard about Jesus weekly growing up, but never cared much about Him. as a Muslim, i believed Him to be an apostle of Allah, and was hopeful to help Christians believe this, too.
in my case i heard of Jesus through Christians, through the Quran, and through the Bible.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Then again, enlightened beings more often than not do not do things "by the book". The books are in some respects, for the blind, as once you can see, you no longer need to be told what you are looking for.
There is nothing wrong with a glass of red wine with ones dinner. If one is having two or three before and after... then that is indicative of a problem area. Scientific studies have shown that red wine, specifically, is very good for the heart due to it containing resveratrol. Definitive studies are still "in progress" but it appears our forefathers may have been on to something regardless of what religious texts have to say on the matter.
Work with me here, Fatihah. If Christ was god incarnate, why would an ordinary person need a book to learn about him?
I'm a bit surprised that a Muslim would be puzzled over a matter of faith. :beach:
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Response: O.K. But there are other scriptures with other religious figures as well. What made you believe that the story of Jesus is true and why is he favored over all the other figures?
Response: Being outdated does not make it bad. I always liked the KJV better and I believe it is still one of the most, if not the most popular version.
Being outdated means it no longer has the credibility it once had. Not only does it use words that are no longer used, but it uses words that have completely different meanings nowadays.
And BTW, the NIV is the most popular version.
ayani
member
well, i came to the point where i wanted to know the truth from God.... who Jesus was, and what God wanted me to do.
so one night after isha prayers, i made a du'a to God. i asked Him to please take away the loneliness and searching that was in my heart. i asked for His help to know what is right, because i could not figure out the truth on my own. i asked Him if Jesus were His Son, and if He wanted me to follow Him, and could He please send me a sign what He wanted me to do?
that night i had a dream. i was driving down the highway, in terrible weather. there was a car coming fast behind me, and i was very sacred. we were about to crash. so in this dream i called out "Lord Jesus Christ, please save me!" and the moment i did, the car behind passed right through my car, like my car was made of vapour.
Jesus' name had saved me. i woke up from this fream immediately, and somehow, my whole self was different. it's like everything had snapped into place, and was whole. God made sense, and faith made sense. later, i would learn what had happened was called being "Born again".
so since that dream, i have been following Jesus. i know Him to be God's Son, and the One whom God wants us to follow, and will point us to if we ask Him. that is how i came to believe in Jesus as a Muslim.
so one night after isha prayers, i made a du'a to God. i asked Him to please take away the loneliness and searching that was in my heart. i asked for His help to know what is right, because i could not figure out the truth on my own. i asked Him if Jesus were His Son, and if He wanted me to follow Him, and could He please send me a sign what He wanted me to do?
that night i had a dream. i was driving down the highway, in terrible weather. there was a car coming fast behind me, and i was very sacred. we were about to crash. so in this dream i called out "Lord Jesus Christ, please save me!" and the moment i did, the car behind passed right through my car, like my car was made of vapour.
Jesus' name had saved me. i woke up from this fream immediately, and somehow, my whole self was different. it's like everything had snapped into place, and was whole. God made sense, and faith made sense. later, i would learn what had happened was called being "Born again".
so since that dream, i have been following Jesus. i know Him to be God's Son, and the One whom God wants us to follow, and will point us to if we ask Him. that is how i came to believe in Jesus as a Muslim.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
But the Qur'an was composed over 500-600 years after Jesus lived; very little of what Jesus would have done would have been written in the Qur'an.
I'm not going to give much reliability to someone who was not a Christian nor a Jew, who did not live in the same area, who lived 500-600 years after Jesus was about, who openly called the Tanakh and Injil as corrupted. I understand why you may, but for me I find this to be too major a leap of faith for me to make, especially when we have older texts to go by such as the Gospels, the Nag Hammadi library, etc; but to go hundreds of years afterwards is not for me.
Numbers 6:1-4 is a Nazirite vow, not an ordinary civilian. A Nazirite could described as an ascetic; they were also forbidden from cutting their hair or being near graves. Throughout much of the Bible, wine is mentioned in a fairly neutral light (sometimes positive, sometimes slightly negative), but drunkenness is never looked at in a good light - possibly because of the dangers of drunkenness.
There is a theory that Jesus traditionally has long hair because early people mistook the term Nazarene for Nazarite, but I'm not so certain that this is true, particularly because the words are not as similar in Hebrew, I believe.
(נזיר Nazir, Nazirite, [FONT="]נָצְרַת[/FONT]‎ Natzrat, Nazareth. I'm not sure how to make Nazarene in Hebrew 100%, maybe someone can help me!)