Jesus is not God

[jimb]

You wrote 10 posts, and not once have you offered an explanation on either an ontological or soteriological level.
You've been indoctrinated - every single one of you trinitarians have utterly stupefied and dumbfounded yourselves with such deranged Biblical eisegesis.

Your nasty post clearly shows your complete inability to understand the Trinity specifically and the Bible in general.

BTW, it's obvious that you don't even understand what "soteriological" means? It has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[jimb]

You will reap what you sow

-Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise.
-Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher.
-Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats.
-Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified.
-Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate(the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover).
-There are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus.
-Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah.
-both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!

This can be verified , point by point.

So , instead of just attacking you may also present some evidence to support your claim.

Clearly DNB has no idea of who Jesus was/is. He thinks that by using big words (which I doubt he understands) he can demonstrate his knowledge. Actually, he is demonstrating just the opposite. Like the Pharisees (who also didn't understand who Jesus was), he is argumentative and demands logical proof before he can accept truth.

 

[YoursTrue]

The song 82 sung in in the Temple of YHWH .. is Exactly the same song sung in the temple of Chemosh - the God of the Moabites who defeats YHWH in one of their famous battle

Where are you getting this from?

 

[YoursTrue]

Here is what my Bible says...

"I and the Father are one" John 10:30
"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:7

Jesus and the Father are one and the same.

To say they are one does not mean Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus. Just as the Bible says a married couple is considered as one, it does not mean the wife is the husband and the husband is the wife.

 

[Muffled]

Here is what my Bible says...

"I and the Father are one" John 10:30
"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:7

Jesus and the Father are one and the same.

I believe they are not the same. Jesus has a body the father does not. I believe the spirit of God is one in and out of the body.

 

[Muffled]

To say they are one does not mean Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus. Just as the Bible says a married couple is considered as one, it does not mean the wife is the husband and the husband is the wife.

Usually the word about marriage is one flesh which is not true of Jesus and the Father.

 

[jimb]

To say they are one does not mean Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus. Just as the Bible says a married couple is considered as one, it does not mean the wife is the husband and the husband is the wife.

Matthew 19:4-6, "“Haven’t you read,” he [Jesus] replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

You must open your mind to what the Bible says. It takes understanding.

 

[jimb]

Usually the word about marriage is one flesh which is not true of Jesus and the Father.

John 14:9, "Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? "

You must also open your mind to what the Bible says. It takes understanding.

 

[YoursTrue]

John 14:9, "Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? "

You must also open your mind to what the Bible says. It takes understanding.

Would you say that a husband can say if you see him, you see his wife also?

 

[InChrist]

Are you pagan?

God does not procreate.
God CREATES.

A ‘Son’ of God is ‘Anyone who does the works of the Father’. That’s why Jesus tried to prove to the Jews that when he said he was God’s Son, it meant that he was doing ‘the works of the Father - and if you don’t believe that then at least believe on the things you’ve seen me do’ (paraphrased…)

Scriptures also says: ‘ALL who are led by the Spirit of God, are [Sons] of God’.

So, all holy angels are ‘SONS’ of God, albeit Spirit Sons.

And all human beings are ‘Sons of God’, albeit that some have fallen well short of that title but not condemned as with the angels who fell short. God, seeing that he made humanity in HIS IMAGE, has given us the gift of redemption - if we choose to repent of our sins. Angels cannot repent and are eternally condemn if they found to be in dereliction of duty to God.

Jesus Christ is a human being who showed mankind that man CAN BE LED by the Spirit of God his whole life…. And that is why Jesus Christ is ‘The ONLY Son of God’ who is SINLESS, righteous, and Holy.

The idea that GOD has an [offspring??] who is ALSO [a] God, is straight out of ‘The book of Paganism - 101’: Thor, Cuchulain, Hercules, etc.- DemiGods / Man-Gods.

Obviously, God does not procreate. The analogy was simply to show that humans have human sons, with human attributes. A human son is a human.
So what kind of Son would the Eternal God have? I say the One and Only Son of God is therefore Eternal as His Father. The Son of God is God with all the attributes of God His Father.

 

[jimb]

Would you say that a husband can say if you see him, you see his wife also?

In a sense, yes. Having been married for 55 years, my wife and I are definitely a part of each other spiritually.

It's sad that you don't understand what Jesus said.

 

[YoursTrue]

@InChrist . Hello. You said in a previous post -- "What else would the only Son of God be but God, if His Father is God? A human father has a human son, right? The Father God has a Son who is God, like Himself. It doesn’t seem that complicated to me."
Remember Jesus quoted Psalm 82, verse 1 says, "A Psalm of Asaph. God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods:" Jesus tried to reason with his persecutors found at John 10, where he said: "“Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?" His listeners were infuriated that he said he was sent into the world by his Father. They didn't like that because they KNEW that meant he was special. Very special.
Clearly many listening did not like his analogy at all.
How do you understand the thought that God called others gods? Keep in mind the word God is not capitalized in the early scriptures, capital letters were ascribed to words much later.

 

[YoursTrue]

In a sense, yes. Having been married for 55 years, my wife and I are definitely a part of each other spiritually.

It's sad that you don't understand what Jesus said.

I doubt that according to the trinity idea, would you say that the Father, Son and holy spirit are one flesh? P.S. Congratulations on a long marriage.

 

[jimb]

I doubt that according to the trinity idea, would you say that the Father, Son and holy spirit are one flesh? P.S. Congratulations on a long marriage.

There is nothing in the Bible that says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "one flesh". They are three separate, distinct aspects of the triune God.

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is the central doctrine concerning the nature of God in most Christian churches, which defines one God existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three distinct persons sharing one essence/substance/nature." Wikipedia (I agree with that definition)

P.S. Thanks for the congratulations! We are still each other's best friend after so many years. I truly love her in a way that I never thought was even possible when I was single.

 

[YoursTrue]

There is nothing in the Bible that says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "one flesh". They are three separate, distinct aspects of the triune God.

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is the central doctrine concerning the nature of God in most Christian churches, which defines one God existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three distinct persons sharing one essence/substance/nature." Wikipedia (I agree with that definition)

That may be the way trinitarians define it, but I do not see the Bible bearing that out. Furthermore, Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. So how do you figure that, even though he also said he and the Father are one. John 14:28 -
New International Version
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

 

[YoursTrue]

P.S. Thanks for the congratulations! We are still each other's best friend after so many years. I truly love her in a way that I never thought was even possible when I was single.

That is nice. Time can certainly change things.

 

[InChrist]

@InChrist . Hello. You said in a previous post -- "What else would the only Son of God be but God, if His Father is God? A human father has a human son, right? The Father God has a Son who is God, like Himself. It doesn’t seem that complicated to me."
Remember Jesus quoted Psalm 82, verse 1 says, "A Psalm of Asaph. God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods:" Jesus tried to reason with his persecutors found at John 10, where he said: "“Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?" His listeners were infuriated that he said he was sent into the world by his Father. They didn't like that because they KNEW that meant he was special. Very special.
Clearly many listening did not like his analogy at all.
How do you understand the thought that God called others gods? Keep in mind the word God is not capitalized in the early scriptures, capital letters were ascribed to words much later.

Psalm 82:6-7, which Jesus referenced, says …
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”

So first, I clearly understand that the use of the word god(s) in Psalm 82 or Jesus’ reference does not mean God, as in the eternal Creator God.
Secondly, from my understanding the use of the word “gods/elohim- can be translated as “judges), so in Psalm 82 I believe it refers to human magistrates, judges, and rulers who have been granted authority on earth. I think the point being made is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because they themselves must stand before God the ultimate Judge.

I think Jesus was making the point that they were charging Him with blasphemy because of His use of the title “Son of God”, yet based on the their own scriptures the term “gods” was applied to others who held a divinely appointed position. So why, since He was One chosen and sent into the world by the Father, be accused of blasphemy for saying, I am the Son of God”?

…do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? John 10:36

 

[InChrist]

That may be the way trinitarians define it, but I do not see the Bible bearing that out. Furthermore, Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. So how do you figure that, even though he also said he and the Father are one. John 14:28 -
New International Version
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

Does “greater” mean unequal? Your boss may have a greater position than you, but you both are equal as human beings, aren’t you? Jesus always acknowledged and honored His Father’s position or role, as His own Father and own position as Son. I don’t think that indicates inequality or proves that the Son is not One with His Father in the Godhead.

In-depth: Why Jesus? Reinforcing The Truth And Deity Of Christ

What a person believes about Jesus will impact every area of life and then where you will spend eternity! Let’s be blunt: there is no gray area here because Scripture reveals exactly who Jesus is, what He came to do, and how believers should live as a result.

harbingersdaily.com

 

[Soapy]

Obviously, God does not procreate. The analogy was simply to show that humans have human sons, with human attributes. A human son is a human.
So what kind of Son would the Eternal God have? I say the One and Only Son of God is therefore Eternal as His Father. The Son of God is God with all the attributes of God His Father.

Ha ha ha…. So funny… sad laugh… sorry!

Jesus was born SINLESS.

Adam was born SINLESS.

Adam WAS SON OF GOD because GOD created him SINLESS. Adam continued sinless until he was deceived…. That then meant he was no longer fully doing the work that God set him to do - meaning he was NO LONGER ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38).

God promised that another would come and bring salvation. ‘Seed of a Woman’ means : ‘Holy, Sinless HUMAN BEING’.

Jesus is that Promise, he is that ‘Emmanuel’, he is the Saviour, the Messiah… THE CHRIST … that God promised. God PUT FLESH on the BONES of His PROMISE!!!

Then, because Jesus proved to be holy and sinless and righteous for 30 years, God ANOINTED Jesus with Holy Spirit and Power (Acts 10:37-38)… Jesus also STATES the same to the Jews:

• ‘“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,’ (Luke 4:18)

Following his anointment, and testing in the wilderness, Jesus stood up in the synagogue and declared the day of his ‘Sending’:

• “He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke 4:21)

So Jesus was EMPOWERED by the Holy Spirit of God, which is how Jesus was able to do all the miracles he is reported to have carried out.

Notice that the disciples, AND the Apostles, were ALSO able to do all the things Jesus did after they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit of God… but according to their status since they were not SINLESS.

Yet, Jesus told them: ‘In time to come, you, too, will do the things you see me do …… and GREATER THINGS THAN THESE WILL YOU DO!!’

Wow… if Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD… and Man Will ‘Do greater things than ALMIGHTY GOD’. W..o…w…..!!

 

[jimb]

That may be the way trinitarians define it, but I do not see the Bible bearing that out. Furthermore, Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. So how do you figure that, even though he also said he and the Father are one. John 14:28 -
New International Version
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

If you don't understand it I cannot explain it any further. Pray for understanding!