Jesus is not God

[YoursTrue]

Keep ignoring the facts.

He died. He was killed.

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh, yes, @Ebionite do you think God, or 1/3 of God or 1/3 of the so-called godhead as some put it, can actually die?

 

[Ebionite]

Oh, yes, @Ebionite do you think God, or 1/3 of God or 1/3 of the so-called godhead as some put it, can actually die?

Reason is irrelevant when talking to a religionist.

 

[walt]

As I see it, the problem is that we try to understand "Jesus" and forget who Jesus was before he became Jesus.

Who was Jesus?

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.
:14 and the Word became flesh...

Can we start there? He was "God".

Kenny Thanks for your kindness, I consider you to be a very good person, sometimes when I want to prove a point I get carried away, to me I think I am being very thorough in my comments, but sometimes I think I go too far and my comments are too long too much, I will try to improve on this.

I consider we are brothers in a way even though we don't believe exactly the same, we both love Jesus and his Father.

 

[Kenny]

Kenny Thanks for your kindness, I consider you to be a very good person, sometimes when I want to prove a point I get carried away, to me I think I am being very thorough in my comments, but sometimes I think I go too far and my comments are too long too much, I will try to improve on this.

I consider we are brothers in a way even though we don't believe exactly the same, we both love Jesus and his Father.

I agree - and thank you for being so transparent and filled with the fruits of love.

 

[YoursTrue]

Reason is irrelevant when talking to a religionist.

So you're not religious or is it that you're not what you call a "religionist"? what's a religionist anyway. I understand if you don't believe in Jesus and so would rather not talk about him in the light of what the Bible says. That's ok.

 

[YoursTrue]

But ye [are] they that forsake YHWH, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for GD, and that furnish the drink offering unto MNY.
Isaiah 65:11


In prophecy there's one that stands out.

And YHWH said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, [which] shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
Zechariah 11:15-16

Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say, Woe to him that increaseth [that which is] not his! how long? and to him that ladeth himself with thick clay!
Shall they not rise up suddenly that shall bite thee, and awake that shall vex thee, and thou shalt be for booties unto them?
Because thou hast spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil thee; because of men's blood, and [for] the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.
Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house, that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!
Thou hast consulted shame to thy house by cutting off many people, and hast sinned [against] thy soul.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall, and the beam out of the timber shall answer it.
Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity!
Habakkuk 2:4-12

Because you have not explained these scriptures in the context of what you're discussing, I figure you cannot explain them. Have a nice day. Bye for now and take care -- just like it was in the days of Noah.

 

[Ebionite]

So you're not religious or is it that you're not what you call a "religionist"?

It's understandable that you don't recognise reason.

I understand if you don't believe in Jesus and so would rather not talk about him in the light of what the Bible says. That's ok.

What I believe is not important. My post history has a lot of content which shows the prophetic context for the man called Jesus.

 

[Ebionite]

Because you have not explained these scriptures in the context of what you're discussing, I figure you cannot explain them.

Yes, that must be it. /sarc

 

[YoursTrue]

It's understandable that you don't recognise reason.


What I believe is not important. My post history has a lot of content which shows the prophetic context for the man called Jesus.

ok, bye for now.

 

[Betho_br]

Nope. He meant solely as a unity of purpose. Jesus clarified this….

Read John 17:20-23…. “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one.”

Again, inaccurate.

If that were true, that the Jews knew that Jesus was claiming to be Yahweh, then they would have accused him of that at His Sanhedrin trial. According to all 4 gospel accounts, they never did so! In fact the chief priest and scribes couldn’t even get their false witnesses to agree on any sort of blasphemy!

So it’s best not to add stuff that isn’t there.

Of course, Jesus was divine - he was “from God” (which is what “divine” means) - but so are angels, this Earth, our life, etc.

1) You confuse "being in Jesus and therefore being in the Father" with "being in Jesus and being in the Father". This type of error is not new, even for those who have not interpreted these verses correctly. In 1 John 5:20 it is written: "And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know the True One. And we are in the True One by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the True God and eternal life.'"

2) I leave the doctrine of unity to evolution.
Analysis of John 10:30 – The Unity and Name of God.

2 part.

3) theosis

4) "we are one"

 

[Jimmy]

you’re right he’s not God. He’s God in the flesh.

 

[YoursTrue]

a) I am talking about Jesus' identity.
b) Yes, I do believe in the Trinity.
c) "...whenever I get, for whatever reason a better understanding of something, I change my thinking, beliefs and actions accordingly", so go ahead and change your thinking about who Jesus was/is.
d) I also only seek to extend kindness to you and Christian love, while we both examine the scriptural evidence especially the words of Jesus.

Here's the problem as I see it (now). I didn't always see it clearly because I didn't believe in Jesus or care what people believed about him. As to your 4th point there about Christian love -- let's go back to Jesus for a moment rather than our own behavior. When the disciple with him cut off the ear of the one arresting him, how did Jesus react? Luke 22 helps to understand.

"While He was still speaking, a crowd arrived, led by the man called Judas, one of the Twelve. He approached Jesus to kiss Him. 48But Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49Those around Jesus saw what was about to happen and said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.
51But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And He touched the man’s ear and healed him."

Verse 51 demonstrates how Jesus reacted.

 

[Betho_br]

you’re right he’s not God. He’s God in the flesh.

John 1:14 New International Version
The Word (Logos) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

In the Christian Bible, the term theos is polysemic and refers to the Hebrew term elohim, encompassing a range of meanings from a judge imbued with divine mission, to a king, a priest, and ultimately to the Almighty God.

John 20:28 and Romans 9:5, among others that employ the term theos, do not necessarily prove that Jesus is the Almighty God.

 

[Trailblazer]

you’re right he’s not God. He’s God in the flesh.

That is an oxymoron.

 

[Betho_br]

That is an oxymoron.

If people were aware that Jesus is an Elohim rejected by Jews and accepted by Christians, and that this forms part of His mission, and that the doctrine of the Trinity is a philosophical development pertinent only to the Catholic Church and not to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, everything would be resolved.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus is the SON of God and was in heaven with God his Father before he came to the earth. Obviously he was a very special person. To God his Father. The following helps explain this: "God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe." Helping us to understand more about Jesus and his relationship with the Father. (Hebrews 1:2)

 

[Absolutely Frank]

Jesus isn't god - Jesus is the Answer.

 

[Ebionite]

If people were aware that Jesus is an Elohim rejected by Jews and accepted by Christians, and that this forms part of His mission, and that the doctrine of the Trinity is a philosophical development pertinent only to the Catholic Church and not to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, everything would be resolved.

The problem with sola scripture is that it implies inerrancy on the part of the men who selected the canon. Also, the ability to apply reason is independent of any written text.

 

[Betho_br]

Jesus is the SON of God and was in heaven with God his Father before he came to the earth. Obviously he was a very special person. To God his Father. The following helps explain this: "God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe." Helping us to understand more about Jesus and his relationship with the Father. (Hebrews 1:2)

I respect your religious faith; however, the Epistle to the Hebrews is of questionable authorship and contains interpretations that are contrary to the Torah. Therefore, it is not a reliable basis for proving the teachings of Jesus. Additionally, even the Gospels are not without their issues. For example, I am utilizing the Gospel of John to support certain dogmas in this forum; however, this text also faces significant textual criticism challenges, including issues with manuscript variants and potential theological embellishments.