Jesus is not God

[Questioning]

No Jesus is God and God the holy spirit was present at the creation of the world

Straight from Churchianity.

 

[YoursTrue]

God doesn't need to stoop to miracles to prove anything. Since you use the Bible, according to the Bible: Peter knew because God showed him, not because of a miracle.

All of these stories in the Bible are a tool: The miracle stories are for Greco-Roman polytheists, the story about Peter calling Jesus both "son of God and "messiah", is to relate Jesus to Greco-Roman polytheists ("son of god" terminology) and Jewish people ("messiah"). By using the "son of God and "messiah" this also is intended to unite both prior religions. The Roman tried to find common ground in their various religious groups, this is historical.

Once you know the truth, you can help free others to the higher level:

Greco-Roman Aspects of the Bible (New Testament)

Evidently, the New Testament has Greco-Roman aspects, in addition to Jewish aspects.

www.religiousforums.com

Since I believe the accounts in the Bible are true as far as I am concerned there is no contest. Belief in God is one thing; how we use that belief is another. Also how we view the Bible is integral to the equation.

 

[YoursTrue]

Straight from Churchianity.

The holy spirit does not mean the person of God as if it were one of the three equal persons comprising a trinity. It can be a long discussion, but suffice it to say that it needs to be discussed in the light of translation (what the words mean) and how they relate to biblical instances.

 

[Questioning]

Holy means "set aside"
Spirit means "breath, wind".

God gave Adam 'breath', and he BECAME a living soul.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Belief in God"

You are catching on.

I choose to believe in a God that I cannot see with my physical eyes, but whom I believe exists. I did not always believe in God. There are various reasons for my belief. I used to believe everything scientists said about evolution. Now I do not. I do take vaccines, and I believe scientists have helped mankind in many ways.
What I find interesting is that in the Bible there were many who believed (like Moses and Abraham) and those that did not.

 

[YoursTrue]

Holy means "set aside"
Spirit means "breath, wind".

God gave Adam 'breath', and he BECAME a living soul.

Yup.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes POOR. Never. Moses was just a guy a POOR human not God. Again nice try but no cigar.

Just a guy you say, but this person was used by God to lead His people out of slavery and set to worship God. Moses was not perfect. Jesus was, but Jesus likened himself to Moses.
John 3: No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

 

[walt]

View attachment 95356

Please tell me, how do you insert a PNG in your comments? how do you make a PNG?

Where did you get the definition of the word θεός ?

 

[Oeste]

the son of god

Well, we have @cataway's answer! So let's plug it in :

1. The only begotten son of frog is frog.

2. The only begotten son of dog is dog.

3. The only begotten son of man is man.

4. The only begotten son of god is god.

5. The only begotten Son of God is "the son of god".


Can you explain how the only begotten Son of God would become the "son of god" when there is only one God for Christians?

Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. (2 Samuel 7:22)​

​

See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39)​

"God" does not equal "god" or vice versa in scripture and there is no other God but God for Christians. So the "Son of God" is not "the son of god"

If other gods like Zeus exist and live atop Mt. Olympus, and if Zeus or some other god gave birth to Jesus, then yes, Jesus could be referred to as "the son of god". However scripture does not tell us that Zeus or some other god begat Jesus, so Jesus cannot possibly be "the son of god".

However, this is useful. To account for gods like Zeus, Odin, or Jupiter, we just add them in, using proper, reverential capitalization:


1. The only begotten son of frog is frog.

2. The only begotten son of dog is dog.

3. The only begotten son of man is man.

4. The only begotten son of god is god.

5. The only begotten Son of God is _____________?

 

[Oeste]

Does that really make sense what you're saying?

Absolutely!

the only begotten of a human son, is he human?

What else could one begotten of human be BUT HUMAN?

they're both human, but your father is still your father and you are still his son.

Absolutely!

you are both human, but at no time are you each other, you are never your father and your father is never you,

Couldn't agree with you more.

unless you're a rama lama ding dong.

Incorrect. You would not be "a rama lama ding dong". You would be Modalist.

 

[Oeste]

he Father does not tell us that Jesus is God.

I see no other conclusion unless you believe scripture is not inspired of God.

 

[walt]

Absolutely!


What else could one begotten of human be BUT HUMAN?


Absolutely!


Couldn't agree with you more.


Incorrect. You would not be "a rama lama ding dong". You would be Modalist.

You say absolutely! yeah that sounds like a good word, absolutely! sorry doesn't sound like we can agree on anything. have a good night, thanks for your input.

 

[walt]

The Codex Vaticanus, also known as Vat. gr. 1209, is a 4th century Greek manuscript of The New Testament.
by Wilson, Benjamin, b. 1817, tr Publication date 1864 Diaglott(i)

John 1:1 In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.

[ This is Apostle John's words in English - word for word ] These Greek words were written around 200 years after the Apostle John died. [ on the left ] reflects Apostle John's words in Greek.


Word for Word - Greek to English - [ on the left ]..............................Different Words?................................English in paragraph form - [ on the right ]

 

[Oeste]

Trinitarian know the Father is God and the Son is the Son of God. You are Baháʼí, and even you agree with this. Please explain how only those “not duped by the Trinity doctrine” would know this when it is something Trinitarians already know.

That is not what Trinitarians already know. They believe that the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.

Absolutely!

This changes nothing however. As the begotten Son of God Jesus cannot be anything but God.

Likewise, as the begotten son of frog one cannot be anything but frog. You cannot be a snake or a turtle.

Or as the begotten son of dog, you cannot be anything but dog. You cannot be a cat or a kangaroo.

And as the begotten son of man, you cannot be anything but man. You cannot be an fly or an elephant.

So, if Jesus is not God simply because ‘God the Son’ is not in the Bible, then Jesus is not man simply because ‘Man the Son’ is not in the bible either.

I did not say that Jesus is not God simply because ‘God the Son’ is not in the Bible. There are many other reasons why Jesus cannot be God.

I disagree. Here it is again:

The Father is God. The Son is the Son of God.
Anyone who was not duped by the Trinity doctrine would know that.

There is no such thing as 'God the Son' in the Bible

You mentioned God the Son' was not in the Bible as a simple reason Jesus could not be God. I never claimed it was the only reason you gave.
"Simply" does not mean "only".

Please note I mentioned that Man the Son was not in the Bible either, giving it as a simple reason Jesus could not be man if God the Son meant Jesus could not be God.

IOW, using the same, consistent logic, Trinitarians should be expected to show ‘God the Son’ only when our Baháʼí or Jehovah Witness friends show us ‘Man the Son’ in scripture. Otherwise, to be logically consistent, we would determine Jesus is neither God or Man depending on our POV, and while I can understand why a non-Christian religion might do this, I do not see why Jehovah Witnesses, who by doctrine present themselves as the only “true” Christians, would be eager to follow suit.

That logic is completely faulty. God the Son does not even make sense because God is the Father, NOT the Son.

No, it's completely accurate. Jesus is not only the Son of man, which makes him man, but he is the Son of God, which makes him God.

In scripture, hippos do not beget geese. Please read John 3:16 and 3:18 carefully.

Scripture refers to the Son or God and the Son of man and in the context of the verses, both refer to Jesus.

God the Son does not appear in any scripture because it is a man-made Trinitarian doctrine.

Son of God appears just as the Son of Man appears in scripture clearly showing Christ's dual nature.

Look, Trinitarians already believe Jesus is the Son of Man, so pointing out Jesus prays to his Father in heaven simply confirms the fact that Jesus is the Son of Man. There is nothing further you need do in this regard.

What you might want to do is show us how you believe Jesus is the begotten Son of God. Start with the Temptation. So what's the point of Satan challenging the Son of God to turn stones into bread?

Did you notice? He didn't challenged the Son of Man, he challenged the Son of God. No "son of man" can turn stones into bread, and neither Jesus or Satan can tempt the Father into turning stones to bread for them.

So what's the point of Satan tempting Jesus into doing something he obviously cannot do? Was Satan unaware that men cannot turn stones to bread?

 

[blü 2]

I don't believe your interpretation is correct. And I don't just take your word for it.

Where exactly in the Tanakh do you say a crucifixion of a messiah is prophesied, then?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Adam is called “son of God”, at Luke 3:38.

At Job 38:7, the angels witnessing the Earth’s beauty right after its creation, were called “sons of God [who] shouted in applause.”

Indeed, a special honor!

But it’s obvious that being called “son of God” doesn’t make you God!

Not even another god. Adam wasn’t. But angels & Jesus are “powerful ones”, which is what theoi can mean in Greek.

This explains why the 2001translation Bible, @ John 1:1, says:
“1In the beginning, there was the Word,The Word was with The God [Greek: ton theon],And [a] god [Greek: theos] was the Word.”

Wait! This has been revised! It used to say: “…And the Word was a powerful one.”

I guess they changed it… Whaddayaknow!

 

[Questioning]

Please tell me, how do you insert a PNG in your comments? how do you make a PNG?

Where did you get the definition of the word θεός ?

I have Photoshop and Coreldraw, and others on my PC. It's common knowledge!

 

[Kenny]

The Codex Vaticanus, also known as Vat. gr. 1209, is a 4th century Greek manuscript of The New Testament.
by Wilson, Benjamin, b. 1817, tr Publication date 1864 Diaglott(i)

John 1:1 In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.

[ This is Apostle John's words in English - word for word ] These Greek words were written around 200 years after the Apostle John died. [ on the left ] reflects Apostle John's words in Greek.


Word for Word - Greek to English - [ on the left ]..............................Different Words?................................English in paragraph form - [ on the right ]

View attachment 95422

Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | John | written appox 330 - 350

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Questioning]

Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | John | written appox 330 - 350

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Ex 7:1- And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh...

 

[Kenny]

Where exactly in the Tanakh do you say a crucifixion of a messiah is prophesied, then?

it’s a puzzle that you put the pieces together

Psalm 22
Deut 21:23
Ps 34:20


this might help, if you are interested:

What Old Testament Prophecies Predicted Jesus and the Cross?

Jesus’ atoning sacrifice, the situation surrounding the crucifixion, the means of His death, and His last words all fulfill major Old Testament prophecies that are scattered throughout the Law, Psalms, and Prophets. Jesus is truly the promised Messiah of the Old Testament.

www.christianity.com