TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
All the ones that are true.
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Jesus is not God
- Thread starter andy
- Start date
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
2 Timothy 3:16-17
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Very good scripture, I feel each scripture we read helps us get a little more insight, and when we don't take into account some scriptures, this may create a poor or a weak understanding.
I think all the words in the bible are inspired, and are in the Bible for a very good reason.
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Oeste
Well-Known Member
Where does God say "Jesus Words Alone!"???
The voice from the cloud IS NOT JESUS TALKING! So, if its "Jesus Words Alone!" why on earth (or heaven) are you quoting anyone else?
Your red letter argument immediately contradicts itself. Please show us where Jesus claims we are to listen to his words alone.
Also, please explain why you say "Jesus Words Alone" and immediately quote someone whom we all know is not Jesus the next?
Again, you contradict. You tell us only the FATHER is good. You deny Jesus the same. How can the Father be in " perfect unity" with someone who is NOT good?
Once Jesus is no good, then anyone in "perfect unity" with him is NO GOOD as well. A no good Jesus cannot cover our sins if he has sins of his own. He cannot clothe us in white linens if his own linen is dirty and unwashed. God is "Holy! Holy! Holy!" (Rev. 4:8) If Jesus is in "perfect unity" with our Holy Father then he will reflect ALL the goodness of the Father "perfectly", not "imperfectly". There is no "sliding scale".
Again, this red letter rational is not making any logical, consistent sense. Only God is good, @walt, and Jesus is good for the same reason. Once you diminish Jesus by declaring him anything less than good, you diminish God as well.
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
2 Corinthians 8:8I think all the words in the bible are inspired, and are in the Bible for a very good reason.
I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others,
and to prove the sincerity of your love.
Oeste
Well-Known Member
Once again you contradict yourself. Did you read Matthew 16:13-17?
Let's take a look:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Here's a question for you @walt:
Is Jesus asking the disciples for his OWN words back at him, or is he asking the disciples to explain in their own personal words? Let's continue:
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Next question: Why is Peter answering in his own words when he should, according to your personal theology, simply parrot Jesus' words back at him? Remember, it's "Jesus Words Alone!", right? Let's continue:
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Please read carefully and understand Jesus's response here @walt. Jesus does NOT admonish Peter for using his own words. In fact, he praises Peter because he realizes the work of revelation that has taken place in him.
So the idea of "Jesus Words Alone!" is simply not supported by scripture, and we have shown this using the scriptural support you gave us.
As such, I think the "red letter only" phase of our discussion can be closed. While "red letter only" is useful for study, we should not limit ourselves to ONLY the words of Jesus. That would be a "man made doctrine", wholly unsupported by scripture.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I am not really that good with debates. I am just trying to be a Christian, and I feel it starts with reading the words of Jesus and doing what he says.
I agree with you, my own personal words - please disregard them, Jesus words are the words I feel is important, not what I think personally.
Oeste
Well-Known Member
I agree, but only if we buy into this "Jesus is not all that good" theology.
Well, just to be clear, I believe the Scripture reads "No one is good but God alone".
Not quite.
It makes the Father only as good as Jesus is since both the Father and Jesus are in "perfect unity".
So if Jesus is anything less than good, then the Father is less than good. And if the Father is good, it would make Jesus good as well. Neither the Father or Jesus can be unevenly yoked.
The problem are those who claim Jesus is less than good. That makes the Father, who is in "perfect unity", the same "less than good" as Jesus.
You can't have "perfect unity" any other way.
As the scripture reads: "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". (Gal 5:9)
To have a good Father, we need a good Jesus, and since only God is good, Jesus is God. That would be, as @walt put it, "perfect unity". However, if we have Christians here claiming that Jesus has "imperfect unity" with the Father, I'm all ears.
Is this "unity" perfect or imperfect? Again, you are not answering but dodging the question: How does a no good Jesus answer for our sins, and how does the Father, who is Holy, share "unity and purpose" with a less than perfect creature?
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I really don't understand, what is your point please?
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
And?
If you used a better translation than one that is over 400 years old, you probably will get better understanding of God's word. But maybe not.
2 Corinthians 8:8...
"I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others." NIV
"I am not saying this as a command, but I am testing the genuineness of your love by comparison with the eagerness of others." NET
"I do not say this as a command, but I am, by mentioning the eagerness of others, testing the genuineness of your love." NRSVue
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
I cannot increase your understanding.
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
I do not need anything written by anyone nor any translation of anything,
to know what is true and what is not true.
I use the bible when dealing with them that refer to the bible.
When in Rome, speak Italian.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Did I ask you for any understanding? I asked you what is your point? You must be making comments for a particular reason?
He also said this to Peter shortly after the above...
Matthew 16:21-23, "From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
Apparently the revelation in Peter was complete!
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
If you asked me for the reason of my point then you did not understand my point.
Oh, now I see. You are the repository of all wisdom!
You "do not need anything written by anyone nor any translation of anything", yet you quote the Bible (capitalized) to try to prove your point!
You clearly do not know what is true and what is not true.
P.S. Your command of English is clearly suspect. "I use the bible when dealing with them that refer to the bible" is poorly written.
Or you didn't express yourself clearly (which is probable).
Why don't you read my signature (below) to learn why you are so confused?
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
I did not express myself at all. Therefore you are incorrect , again.Or you didn't express yourself clearly (which is probable).