TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
This is again, incorrect.
Why don't you read my signature (below) to learn why you are so confused?
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Jesus is not God
- Thread starter andy
- Start date
Why can't you deal with reality???
You wrote "If you asked me for the reason of my point then you did not understand my point." That is clearly expressing yourself!
That proves that you are confused and lack understanding.
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
Really? I do not believe God will agree with you.
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
Not to God.
Oeste
Well-Known Member
When does justice demand that a person not be "good"?
Justice does NOT "sometime" demand that a person not be good. Only God is good, remember? If justice demands that a person "not be good" then God cannot mete out justice, because He, by your definition, would "sometimes" have to be "not good" to deliver it!
So we've come full circle. Jesus can be "not good" because God sometimes has to be "not good" when he metes out justice. I suppose we can go further, and attempt to support this new found reasoning with scripture:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
However, while such reasoning would certainly help a "Jesus is not God" theology, this would not be good of our God, and certainly not good for us as Christians. It would be great new for sinners.
Jesus, if he is to deliver justice, must also be good. Anything less than "good" justice is simply injustice. Jesus, who made creation "good" would have to be good Himself. Jesus, who atones for "a perfect life" must have "a perfect life" Himself. There is no perfection in imperfection and no unholiness in Holy. There is no "sliding-scale" with the Father and anything less than perfection simply means Jesus missed the mark.
Only God is good. Jesus is good because only God is good and since only God is good Jesus is God. This does not mean Jesus is the Father. Jesus did not say "only the Father is good".
The conclusion is straightforward and non-contradictory. Anything less than this is simply not in accordance with scripture and places the entire work of Christ on tenuous soil, all for the sake of keeping a contradictory doctrine.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I wonder why anyone would believe that the following verses mean that people will come out from their physical graves and rise up in another physical body. People will believe 1) what they have been taught and 2) what they want to believe.
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
It is obvious from the verses in the chapter that precede these verses refer to being resurrected from spiritual death to spiritual life.
These verses have nothing to do with rising from physical death.
John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Everlasting life has nothing to do with the physical body, it is nearness to God that comes through knowing God and Jesus and believing in Jesus.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
It is the soul of a person that attains everlasting life, not the physical body.
The physical body once dead remains dead and returns to the earth, as the Bible says.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It is kind of ironic that a Baha'i has to explain to Christians what their own Bible means.
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
It is obvious from the verses in the chapter that precede these verses refer to being resurrected from spiritual death to spiritual life.
These verses have nothing to do with rising from physical death.
John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Everlasting life has nothing to do with the physical body, it is nearness to God that comes through knowing God and Jesus and believing in Jesus.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
It is the soul of a person that attains everlasting life, not the physical body.
The physical body once dead remains dead and returns to the earth, as the Bible says.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It is kind of ironic that a Baha'i has to explain to Christians what their own Bible means.
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walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
That's nice that you quote scriptures, but then you add your own words to explain..I wonder why anyone would believe that the following verses mean that people will come out from their physical graves and rise up in another physical body. People will believe 1) what they have been taught and 2) what they want to believe.
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
It is obvious from the verses in the chapter that precede these verses refer to being resurrected from spiritual death to spiritual life.
These verses have nothing to do with rising from physical death.
John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Everlasting life has nothing to do with the physical body, it is nearness to God that comes through knowing God and Jesus and believing in Jesus.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
It is the soul of a person that attains everlasting life, not the physical body.
The physical body once dead remains dead and returns to the earth, as the Bible says.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It is kind of ironic that a Baha'i has to explain to Christians what their own Bible means.
Why can't you explain your beliefs,
- With only scripture?
- And none of your own words to assist?
- I guarantee you, you cannot explain all those details of your belief, with only scriptures!
- All these scriptures are inspired words of God, You must explain these as part of your beliefs, otherwise why are these words in the Bible? Psalm 37:29, Matthew 5:5, Revelation 21:3, Ecclesiastes 3:20, 1 Corinthians 15:6, Acts 24:15, 2 Peter 3:13, Psalm 146:4 In order for your beliefs to be correct, all the inspired words in the Bible must be included in your beliefs.
- You must include words like resurrection, asleep in death, the righteous will dwell on the earth or land and live forever on it.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
As I have said before, scriptures alone cannot be used to explain beliefs because scriptures mean different things to different people.
Scriptures do not say anything. They need to be read and interpreted by people who then assign meanings to them.
The same scripture can have many different meanings.
“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted.”
Clearly you do not know the mind of God. You're not even close!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I can show how all those details of my beliefs are true with only scriptures.
The problem is that you will not interpret those scriptures the same way I do, so you will not agree with my beliefs.
It is kind of ironic that a Baha'i has to explain to Christians what s/he thinks their own Bible means.I wonder why anyone would believe that the following verses mean that people will come out from their physical graves and rise up in another physical body. People will believe 1) what they have been taught and 2) what they want to believe.
John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
It is obvious from the verses in the chapter that precede these verses refer to being resurrected from spiritual death to spiritual life.
These verses have nothing to do with rising from physical death.
John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Everlasting life has nothing to do with the physical body, it is nearness to God that comes through knowing God and Jesus and believing in Jesus.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.People will believe 1) what they have been taught and 2) what they want to believe.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
It is the soul of a person that attains everlasting life, not the physical body.
The physical body once dead remains dead and returns to the earth, as the Bible says.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It is kind of ironic that a Baha'i has to explain to Christians what their own Bible means.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
That is only your opinion, why do you think your opinion is so valuable? I don't feel my opinion is so valuable, I use the scriptures to understand every detail of my belief.
walt, your opinion (and your expressed thoughts) are valuable!
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Some scriptures can be interpreted differently, but not always.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
You have seen me use scriptures only many times to explain my beliefs, You can do it!
You just don't want to. I am certainly not going to believe something just because you voice your opinion.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Do you really hear yourself, scriptures alone cannot be used to explain beliefs, and then you quote your holy scriptures afterwards.
How does that make any sense at all?
Why should anyone accept the interpretation of Scripture by the Baha'i as being accurate? There is no doubt that the meaning of Scripture is interpreted through the Baha'i "lens", i.e., it is not objective.
TheFragranceOfHoliness
Active Member
Are you a devil?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is not only my opinion. Scriptures do not talk so they do not say anything.
Scriptures need to be read and have meanings assigned to them.
Yes, you can use the scriptures to understand every detail of your belief, because in your mind you have assigned certain meanings to those scriptures.