Jews, Ezra and Qur'an

[Godobeyer]

She said so herself, she knew not a word.

That's exageration and far from reality.
exemple :
If she read "Allah" in Arabic, she will not understand it ?

 

[Rival]

That's exageration and far from reality.
exemple :
If she read "Allah" in Arabic, she will not understand it ?

She couldn't read it. I said 'recite'. Also, knowing one or two words is little help. It still does not make the surah, or even an ayat, understandable.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's not it's origin langauge. it was Aramaic and Hebrew.

The New Testament was written in Koine (common) Greek. This is an established historical fact.

 

[Rival]

Interesting....

Do you've a refence for translation of 'Yeshua' is 'Iesous' ?

Then Why it's translated to Jesus-Christ ?

I've just told you. The rules of the Greek language make 'Yeshua' to be 'Iesous'. Like the name 'Yusuf' becomes 'Joseph' in English.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

When you non-Arabic or non-Muslim or even Muslim read Quran, You should clear your mind from anything you know. The distorted figure of characters (this our belief) should not be in your mind while reading Quran

Let me give you an example, If someone translates Allah as God. This ward "God" When a western especially Christian reads Quran, he'll recall the Trinity figure of God or at least the Father. Which is totally wrong and doesn't coincide with what the ward "Allah" means for Muslim

Another example, Isa who is known as El-Messiah Isa Ibn Mariam. It's a critical mistake to translate it to Jesus-Christ. There is no correlation between the 2 charters. It's completely different figures.

So, When you read Quran, you read and understand The Creator who is Almighty his name is Allah. He's different and have nothing to be related to God in Christianity context. Take out anything you know about Christin God and Islam Allah.
Same, when you read Quran. There is a character who was human only born without a father who was saved by Allah and raised to heaven alive with pride, This is totally different from figured/invented/attributed character in Nicaea and after Jesus-Christ God, Son of God, crucifixed, resurrected, savior... Who never existed.

Clear ?

So since Isa and Jesus are not the same, Islam has no authoritative claim to be a completion of the Abrahamic religions because the Quran does not reference the Biblical characters. Got it.

 

[Rival]

The New Testament was written in Koine (common) Greek. This is an established historical fact.

The OT was being referenced too though. Still, the oldest copies of this we have are in Greek, the LXX,(B.C) which the EOC uses. Prots and RCs use the later (A.D), Hebrew, Masoretic text.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

See, they dont cite Uzair.

On the off-chance you're using a different version to me, I'm using the English Dr Mohsin translation which does cite Uzair.

 

[Limo]

So since Isa and Jesus are not the same, Islam has no authoritative claim to be a completion of the Abrahamic religions because the Quran does not reference the Biblical characters. Got it.

All what you're saying is wrong (sorry for that) :

• Islam doesn't need authorization from any religion
  
• Abrahamic religions is a non-Islamic expression we're not recognizing it at all
• Who put this law "to be a completion of Abrahimic religions you must reference to Biblical characters"

 

[Limo]

I've just told you. The rules of the Greek language make 'Yeshua' to be 'Iesous'. Like the name 'Yusuf' becomes 'Joseph' in English.

mmmmm, What you're hiding ?

Why didn't you provide references ?

 

[RabbiO]

We read in surah 9 ayah 30:

"The Jews call Uzair [Ezra] the son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (in this) they imitate what the unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth."

Whilst the Christians preach Jesus is the Divine Son, I have never heard or read of any Jews, past or present, call Ezra the son of G-d.......

You might want to check the Orthodox Judaism DIR for an examination of this question earlier this year.

 

[Rival]

Also @A Greased Scotsman

I was wrong. The oldest extant manuscripts of the Christian OT are the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' and are in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Second then is the LXX.

 

[Rival]

mmmmm, What you're hiding ?

Why didn't you provide references ?

You do not understand do you?

'Yehsua' is 'Iesous' in Greek.

That's all there is to it.

 

[Rival]

I'm having doubts about Limo now. I'm starting to think he's fake. No-one is truly unwilling to accept that Hebrew 'Yeshua' is 'Iesous' in Koine Greek. No-one.

 

[Rival]

Ici http://jesusisajew.org/YESHUA.php this explains in depth.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

All what you're saying is wrong (sorry for that) :

• Islam doesn't need authorization from any religion

Islam claims to complete the final religion, a finality based upon the Abrahamic faiths that preceded it. If those faiths are false then Islam completes false religions and is itself false.

Abrahamic religions is a non-Islamic expression we're not recognizing it at all

Yet Islam happily pilfers holy figures from these false faiths such as Moses, Abraham, Gabriel etc.

Who put this law "to be a completion of Abrahimic religions you must reference to Biblical characters"

Muslims did when you (collectively, not specifically yourself) started claiming Moses, Adam, Abraham etc were Muslims. Indeed, Abraham & Ishmael are Biblical figures, upon whom Islam's entire claims of validity rest. If you don't reference them then there's no reason to assume:

• Islam is an Abrahamic religion;
• the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael;
• Abraham & the other prophets were Muslims;
• Islam started with Adam, not Muhammad

 

[Godobeyer]

The New Testament was written in Koine (common) Greek. This is an established historical fact.

Actualy I am not sure , some websites said, this and some say that.

It's need big deal,it's bad for the sense/value of language because dicreased or may take other meaning as Yusuf estes experience.
check Today at 7:55 AM#83 video

 

[Rival]

Actualy I am not sure , some websites said, this and some say that.

It's need big deal,it's bad for the sense/value of language because dicreased or may take other meaning as Yusuf estes experience.
check Today at 7:55 AM#83 video

Uh, no. The New Testament was written in Koine Greek. This is a fact. Saying it wasn't is like saying Qur'an wasn't originally in Arabic; it is that ridiculous.

 

[Godobeyer]

She couldn't read it. I said 'recite'. Also, knowing one or two words is little help. It still does not make the surah, or even an ayat, understandable.

Ah, that's other situation.
Educating Arabic for Muslims to is required not obligated.

 

[Limo]

Islam claims to complete the final religion, a finality based upon the Abrahamic faiths that preceded it. If those faiths are false then Islam completes false religions and is itself false.




Yet Islam happily pilfers holy figures from these false faiths such as Moses, Abraham, Gabriel etc.




Muslims did when you (collectively, not specifically yourself) started claiming Moses, Adam, Abraham etc were Muslims. Indeed, Abraham & Ishmael are Biblical figures, upon whom Islam's entire claims of validity rest. If you don't reference them then there's no reason to assume:

• Islam is an Abrahamic religion;
• the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael;
• Abraham & the other prophets were Muslims;
• Islam started with Adam, not Muhammad

All what you're saying are your rules and laws and has nothing to do with Islam.

Islamic view is simple:-

• Allah has sent many prophets with different laws (Abrahimic or not Abrahmic)
• All these prophets have simple message "No god but Allah" this is Islam
  
• The true believers of the true prophet with the true book are on the Way and will be in Heaven as long as they're following their prophet law
• Once a new prophet comes, the previous law and book is obsolete
• The true followers of previous prophet should follow the new one otherwise they violated their prophet Law

Allah who has sent Adam, Nooh, Ibrahim, Yaqoub, Ishaq, Yousuf, Mosa, Yahia, Zakaria, Isa El-Messiah has sent Muhamed as the last one with the last book

So, there were true followers of Mosa and Isa. Allah told us many of them were good believers and we love them.


This is simply the story of one relegion (Islam) and prophets

 

[Rival]

All what you're saying are your rules and laws and has nothing to do with Islam.

Islamic view is simple:-

• Allah has sent many prophets with different laws (Abrahimic or not Abrahmic)
• All these prophets have simple message "No god but Allah" this is Islam
  
• The true believers of the true prophet with the true book are on the Way and will be in Heaven as long as they're following their prophet law
• Once a new prophet comes, the previous law and book is obsolete
• The true followers of previous prophet should follow the new one otherwise they violated their prophet Law

Allah who has sent Adam, Nooh, Ibrahim, Yaqoub, Ishaq, Yousuf, Mosa, Yahia, Zakaria, Isa El-Messiah has sent Muhamed as the last one with the last book

So, there were true followers of Mosa and Isa. Allah told us many of them were good believers and we love them.


This is simply the story of one relegion (Islam) and prophets

So why don't you follow Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon?