Whilst I do not dispute that (since I’m unfamiliar with US government policy in general) I thought US conservatives wanted the government to stay out of private lives as much as possible?
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Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...
- Thread starter Kenny
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Unless it's something they don't like. Then they're the first in line to plant to government there as a wedge to balk at equally distributing rights.
Just from my vantage point, I have to agree with you. All our news about banning this and banning that (through the government) is seemingly from conservative legislation or politicians.
Cancel culture is annoying but damn. If I were to believe international news reports, the US conservatives would have banned everything I watched/played/read during childhood
Dang!
That is true. The difficulty will always be when government should be in and when it shouldn't. I see the mutilation of the bodies of children as a form of child abuse and should be relegated only when they are old enough to understand the longterm consequences.
Whilst I agree with that line.
Surgery performed on children is not a typical practice in gender affirming care. At least not as far as I’m aware.
The only time such surgery occurs on minors is in cases of intersex conditions, where the “removal” of certain parts are deemed to be medically necessary. Though there does seem to be debate as to how necessary it is in some cases. I’m no doctor, so I can’t say one way or the other.
I’m just saying that surgery performed on minors (with the consent of the parents) is not standard medical practice for gender affirming care, specifically. It is however used for cases of pseudohermaphroditism and indeed cases of hermaphroditism
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
This is why uneducated, ignorant laymen should not ever be making policy.
THEY DON'T DO SURGERY ON MINORS! You're scared of shadows. And it just shows your thoughts and how you view it calling it "mutilation." And what it reveals isn't good.
Well like I hinted at to @icehorse
That may be more of a reflection on US specific style of medicine. There’s likely a few procedures done that aren’t readily approved of in other countries, for a variety of reasons. (And please don’t think I’m trying to accuse the System of ill intent, so to speak. I’m just saying, money may talk, but in the US it’s known to scream. If you’ll forgive the overstretched pun lol.)
More often than not because it’s done for profit whereas other systems need to keep under budget, sure. But the monetary incentive is perhaps……differently expressed, if you follow?
For example our doctors here can actually charge whatever they want, really.
But there are government incentives given to not only encourage what we call “bulk billing” (visits paid for by the taxes) but also to keep costs under control. It’s not so much enforced by law as it done moreso by monetary incentives. If that makes sense?
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That article is from the Daily Caller, which is a hyper-partisan site that mainly publishes opinions rather than factual reporting:
Daily Caller Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media
Ad Fontes Media rates Daily Caller, a news and opinion website co-founded by Tucker Carlson, as hyper-partisan right in terms of bias and as somewhat ...
The Daily Caller Media Bias Rating
Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of The Daily Caller. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.
www.allsides.com
The Daily Caller - Wikipedia
I would need to see evidence from reliable sources before accepting any of the claims that the article makes (but doesn't support with evidence).
It was created by Tucker Carlson?That article is from the Daily Caller, which is a hyper-partisan site that mainly publishes opinions rather than factual reporting:
Daily Caller Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media
Ad Fontes Media rates Daily Caller, a news and opinion website co-founded by Tucker Carlson, as hyper-partisan right in terms of bias and as somewhat ...adfontesmedia.com
The Daily Caller Media Bias Rating
Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of The Daily Caller. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.
The Daily Caller - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I would need to see evidence from reliable sources before accepting any of the claims that the article makes (but doesn't support with evidence).
I mean no offence to anyone here, but the reputation I know of him as an outsider is that he lies more than even an average lawyer!
I care a lot less about who created it than about its highly partisan and unreliable reporting. When I read news, I want to read as much factual reporting and as little opinion as possible, not conspicuously opinionated pieces that don't contain support for the claims they present.
Oh, I agree with you. I was just saying that this creator is known outside the US as a….less than trustworthy journalist, you know?
Which doesn’t exactly do wonders for the reputation of this source.
We Never Know
No Slack
Question....
Take an anorexic woman who weighs 90 pounds but should weigh 140.
She believes in her mind she's over weight/fat.
Is that a physical problem or a mental problem.. IOW do you treat her mentally or physically?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't know how anorexia is treated. I know therapy is a part of it, which makes sense, but I don't know if there is anything else (including medications).
That article is from the Daily Caller, which is a hyper-partisan site that mainly publishes opinions rather than factual reporting:
Daily Caller Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media
Ad Fontes Media rates Daily Caller, a news and opinion website co-founded by Tucker Carlson, as hyper-partisan right in terms of bias and as somewhat ...
The Daily Caller Media Bias Rating
Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of The Daily Caller. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.
The Daily Caller - Wikipedia
I would need to see evidence from reliable sources before accepting any of the claims that the article makes (but doesn't support with evidence).
Gender Confirmation Surgery Is On the Rise In the U.S.
There were more than 3,000 gender confirmation surgeries reported in the U.S. in 2016.
Global Sex Reassignment Surgery Market Size | Mordor Intelligence
The Global Sex Reassignment Surgery Market is projected to register a CAGR of 12.20% during the forecast period (2024-2029)
Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.
About 42,000 U.S. children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 2021, nearly triple the number in 2017, a unique data analysis for Reuters found.
The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
I think we can naturally assume that with exponential increase in gender dysphoria, the next step will be a natural increase in body reconstruction. I think we should also note that just because another source that we don't like quotes statistics, we shouldn't just brush off the information. Sometimes information isn't given by more popular sources because of agendas. IMV.
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Gender Confirmation Surgery Is On the Rise In the U.S.
There were more than 3,000 gender confirmation surgeries reported in the U.S. in 2016.time.com
Global Sex Reassignment Surgery Market Size | Mordor Intelligence
The Global Sex Reassignment Surgery Market is projected to register a CAGR of 12.20% during the forecast period (2024-2029)www.mordorintelligence.com
Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.
About 42,000 U.S. children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 2021, nearly triple the number in 2017, a unique data analysis for Reuters found.www.reuters.com
The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Thanks! Those links are better.
I think it's important to consider the overall number of minors diagnosed with gender dysphoria and consider the number of surgeries in light of that. For example, what percentage of all minors with gender dysphoria do the 776 who had mastectomies make up? In percentages, 776 out of 1,000 is 77.6%, but out of, say, 50,000, it becomes less than 2%.
There's also the question of whether the increase in the number of minors diagnosed with gender dysphoria (without undergoing surgery) is merely due to the increasing awareness about the condition and increased support for people who have it compared to previous years. Over the last decade, I have seen some people claim that homosexuality is "spreading" just because more and more gay people are no longer afraid of living their lives and expressing themselves openly. Some don't believe that gay people have always existed even when they have been suppressed and forced to remain closeted.
Also, hormone therapy and mastectomies are used for the treatment of some conditions that are completely unrelated to gender dysphoria—conditions that can be confirmed via physical screening, such as breast cancer. Breast cancer is thankfully very rare in minors, but it can still happen. Do you think politicians who want to categorically ban both procedures would take this into account?
I'm strongly in favor of limiting irreversible procedures to change one's sex to adults, and medical guidelines both in the US and Europe already adopt that position. However, not all gender-affirming care is surgical; a lot of it involves supporting the person and letting them live as a member of their identified gender. A question similar to the above applies here: Do you think politicians who want to ban gender-affirming care would take this into account, or would they still ban all such care, including the majority of it that doesn't involve surgery or irreversible procedures?
There's no evidence that there's an exponential increase in gender dysphoria; the condition occurs in an extremely small percentage of people. There's an increase in diagnosis rates, but it's not exponential (that word has a very specific statistical meaning that doesn't apply here) and may be a result of increased acceptance rather than anything else.
For example:
When the percentage of people identifying as another gender is higher than the above rates, they usually do not have gender dysphoria:
Gender dysphoria - Wikipedia
I don't tend to quote Wikipedia unless it contains reliable citations for claims, which the above excerpts do. You can check out the DSM-5 link and the studies if you want.
If it were so simple.
1) If someone does have gender dysphoria, is it psychological or physical? if psychological (as it was determined before) - it should be treated in light of that.
2) Is it increased awareness? Or is it promoted in school as "an acceptable alternative" and children naturally assume that the teacher is an authority and then consider themselves as candidates? Are there abusive situations that makes one think that? Has COVID seclusion influenced it?
It is never as simple as one thinks IMV.
That is true... but I don't think that cancer factors in as a substantial differential. If we don't want "politicians" involved, should we eliminate medicare? (I'm just saying that politicians is not part of this discussion and will detour what we really are talking about.
IMV these two points have no substantial impact on the issue.
But we are talking about surgical here which I think should be made when children are adults because we do have statistical data that says most people have "gender questions" but revert back to biological gender when they pass through that stage.
If one is an adult, it won't matter what politicians opinions are. It's your body.
There's no evidence that there's an exponential increase in gender dysphoria; the condition occurs in an extremely small percentage of people. There's an increase in diagnosis rates, but it's not exponential (that word has a very specific statistical meaning that doesn't apply here) and may be a result of increased acceptance rather than anything else.
For example:
When the percentage of people identifying as another gender is higher than the above rates, they usually do not have gender dysphoria:
I don't tend to quote Wikipedia unless it contains reliable citations for claims, which the above excerpts do. You can check out the DSM-5 link and the studies if you want.Gender dysphoria - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I think we can look at history. No matter what the statistics are today, proportions are still good. If you have increase cancer, you have increase in cancer treatment. We said abortion should be in rare cases and now we have abortion on demand. It went to "a few" to millions. Not trying to go into abortion but rather just saying that you open the door and it exponentially increases.
We obviously have statistical information that declares that gender dysphoria is exponentially increasing and it will therefore increase in surgical applications. As de-transitioners increase with bodies now mutilated, they have no recourse. We have no statistical data of the realities of long term effects at this level and yet we are acting as if we know it all IMV.
Then you have culture, as it gets promoted via media, politically, educationally, - you can't help but know that it is changing culture where children are encouraged to "experiment"... except this experiment is placing thoughts that are right, at least IMV.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I honestly don't know what you're saying here after "I disagree".
That it isn't already in politics... they have made it a political issue
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But it's the teen's body that matters, and yet you're willing to have the government(s) call the shots and not the family and their doctors. Why would you want this, which is a big puzzle to me.
Sorry, Ken, but you're really not making any sense on this. It seems to me you are taking the position that you are, but it appears not being based on the well-being of the teen but more on some other issue(s).