Let's talk about Hell

[Danny Heim]

Technically, you are absolutely correct -do it right or be destroyed -but if you truly perceived it correctly you would understand that everything God tells you to do -or else -is for your own good -and that anything else leads to misery and destruction.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Call it what you want. God technically did not give us "free will" -he gave us a choice between life and death. He created us and is responsible for what he allows us to do. If we were created eternal and then allowed to do whatever we wanted forever without regard for the nature of our environment, there would only be misery -and tyrants galore -and all things would end due to the ensuing chaos and anarchy.

What you call tyranny as it relates to God is actually the enforcement of the absence of tyranny. It is God defending those who would be peaceful -and denying those who would be tyrants the opportunity to do so forever.

What you call free will is about to lead to mankind destroying all flesh from the earth -if God did not cut the days short.

No -you can't do anything you want -it just simply would not work. God knows that -even if we do not. There is no reason to not obey God -and those who will be burned are not those who err innocently.

One of the options we are given IS death -do opt out of life if you want to -but I hope you don't make that decision based on your current assumptions about God. The following is true -but is in no way bad or tyrannical.....

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

In a box, your reason works well, but we are not in a box, we are in an infinite universe, yes, you can do whatever you want.

 

[Etritonakin]

You are assuming we can get off earth without blowing ourselves to smithereens first -that we will solve all of the other problems which threaten our existence -and that an asteroid or some other disaster doesn't take us out.
Even if God did not exist and we could do whatever we wanted, we are subject to powers much greater than ourselves -the greatest of which is possibly our own ignorance -which would deny our plans one way or another -some time or another.

Only the ability to manipulate even the cosmos would absolutely ensure our longevity -but this would still not solve the problem of actually getting along with each other.
Doing what we want does not solve the problem of somebody wanting to blow everyone else up.

 

[Danny Heim]

'burn' [fire] in scripture often stands for destruction or annihilation.

Don't the wicked of Psalm 92v7 suffer destruction or annihilation?

Using our free will we are choosing whether we are the figurative sheep or goats of Matthew 25 v32 by how we treat Jesus brothers of verse 40.

God desires no one to perish [be destroyed] but desires all to repent as 2nd Peter 3v9 B says.

It is still relative to the will and desires of another, not our own, in that case, free will is meninngless. And it matters not if it's they who created us, or born of flesh, it still winds up tryanny.

 

[Danny Heim]

You are assuming we can get off earth without blowing ourselves to smithereens first -that we will solve all of the other problems which threaten our existence -and that an asteroid or some other disaster doesn't take us out.
Even if God did not exist and we could do whatever we wanted, we are subject to powers much greater than ourselves -the greatest of which is possibly our own ignorance -which would deny our plans one way or another -some time or another.

Only the ability to manipulate even the cosmos would absolutely ensure our longevity -but this would still not solve the problem of actually getting along with each other.
Doing what we want does not solve the problem of somebody wanting to blow everyone else up.

That is absolutely correct. So no, I am not assuming "we can get off earth without blowing ourselves to smithereens first". And we just may do that my friend, if we don't wise up and evolve pretty darn quick.

 

[Etritonakin]

What if evolutionists are selected for extinction?

hehehehehehehehehe -just ribbing -have a good night -must retire now.

 

[Slo_Motion_BC]

Hi:

(((( I'm Ed and I'm dead; a human on earth who failed to get salvation from Jesus Christ. ))))

Not true. That time does not come until God through his Son Jesus raises the good and the not good from the grave.........

John 5:28,29,NLT,
28 Don't be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God's Son,
29 and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to judgment.

(((( Ed is going to Hell. ))))

The english word hell comes from the Saxon word "hellan" which means to cover over and that is exactly what happens when you are put in your grave. Can you have thoughts in your grave? Not according to the bible............

Psalms 146:4,KJV,
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

No one can go to heaven either.............

John 3:13,KJV,
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

So both the good and not so good are in their graves until Jesus raises them from the grave.

(((( It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. ))))

Not true. There is no such thing as torture in the bible. The bible uses word pictures to describe events because people before Jeus could not read and write. The rich could but the bible was written for the poor because the rich had very little time for the bible, in general. So then lets look at what God thinks about fire and torture...........

Deuteronomy 18:
9 "When you arrive in the land the LORD your God is giving you, be very careful not to imitate the detestable customs of the nations living there.
10 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering.
12 Anyone who does these things is an object of horror and disgust to the LORD. It is because the other nations have done these things that the LORD your God will drive them out ahead of you.
13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

So you see God hates such conduct. So where do the bad go?.............

Romans 6:23,NLT,
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

So we see that death is the reward of the wicked not torture.

(((( It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far? ))))

Church leaders who wanted to keep their congregations filling the collection plates so they would scare the hell into their people.

It is funny. Today we creameate our relatives when they die and no one is concerned with the 1000 degree temperature to turn the loved one into ashes. Why should they be because our loved one is dead...........

Psalms 146:4,KJV,
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Our God is a God of love not torture.............

1 Corinthians 2:9,NLT,
9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say,
"No eye has seen, no ear has heard,
and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared
for those who love him."

So the next time one of Jehovah's witnesses comes to your door ask them to show you what the bible says about our everlasting future on this earth......

Matthew 5:5,NLT,
5 God blesses those who are gentle and lowly,
for the whole earth will belong to them.

Isaiah 65:17-25,NLT,
17 "Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth-so wonderful that no one will even think about the old ones anymore.
18 Be glad; rejoice forever in my creation! And look! I will create Jerusalem as a place of happiness. Her people will be a source of joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and delight in my people. And the sound of weeping and crying will be heard no more.
20 "No longer will babies die when only a few days old. No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life. No longer will people be considered old at one hundred! Only sinners will die that young!
21 In those days, people will live in the houses they build and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 It will not be like the past, when invaders took the houses and confiscated the vineyards. For my people will live as long as trees and will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.
23 They will not work in vain, and their children will not be doomed to misfortune. For they are people blessed by the LORD, and their children, too, will be blessed.
24 I will answer them before they even call to me. While they are still talking to me about their needs, I will go ahead and answer their prayers!
25 The wolf and lamb will feed together. The lion will eat straw like the ox. Poisonous snakes will strike no more. In those days, no one will be hurt or destroyed on my holy mountain. I, the LORD, have spoken!"

Respectfully,

Slo.

 

[Danny Heim]

What if evolutionists are selected for extinction?

hehehehehehehehehe -just ribbing -have a good night -must retire now.

Don't worry, I got a laugh out of that to, sleep well

 

[Danny Heim]

Hi:

(((( I'm Ed and I'm dead; a human on earth who failed to get salvation from Jesus Christ. ))))

Not true. That time does not come until God through his Son Jesus raises the good and the not good from the grave.........

John 5:28,29,NLT,
28 Don't be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God's Son,
29 and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to judgment.

(((( Ed is going to Hell. ))))

The english word hell comes from the Saxon word "hellan" which means to cover over and that is exactly what happens when you are put in your grave. Can you have thoughts in your grave? Not according to the bible............

Psalms 146:4,KJV,
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

No one can go to heaven either.............

John 3:13,KJV,
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

So both the good and not so good are in their graves until Jesus raises them from the grave.

(((( It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. ))))

Not true. There is no such thing as torture in the bible. The bible uses word pictures to describe events because people before Jeus could not read and write. The rich could but the bible was written for the poor because the rich had very little time for the bible, in general. So then lets look at what God thinks about fire and torture...........

Deuteronomy 18:
9 "When you arrive in the land the LORD your God is giving you, be very careful not to imitate the detestable customs of the nations living there.
10 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering.
12 Anyone who does these things is an object of horror and disgust to the LORD. It is because the other nations have done these things that the LORD your God will drive them out ahead of you.
13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

So you see God hates such conduct. So where do the bad go?.............

Romans 6:23,NLT,
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

So we see that death is the reward of the wicked not torture.

(((( It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far? ))))

Church leaders who wanted to keep their congregations filling the collection plates so they would scare the hell into their people.

It is funny. Today we creameate our relatives when they die and no one is concerned with the 1000 degree temperature to turn the loved one into ashes. Why should they be because our loved one is dead...........

Psalms 146:4,KJV,
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Our God is a God of love not torture.............

1 Corinthians 2:9,NLT,
9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say,
"No eye has seen, no ear has heard,
and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared
for those who love him."

So the next time one of Jehovah's witnesses comes to your door ask them to show you what the bible says about our everlasting future on this earth......

Matthew 5:5,NLT,
5 God blesses those who are gentle and lowly,
for the whole earth will belong to them.

Isaiah 65:17-25,NLT,
17 "Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth-so wonderful that no one will even think about the old ones anymore.
18 Be glad; rejoice forever in my creation! And look! I will create Jerusalem as a place of happiness. Her people will be a source of joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and delight in my people. And the sound of weeping and crying will be heard no more.
20 "No longer will babies die when only a few days old. No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life. No longer will people be considered old at one hundred! Only sinners will die that young!
21 In those days, people will live in the houses they build and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 It will not be like the past, when invaders took the houses and confiscated the vineyards. For my people will live as long as trees and will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.
23 They will not work in vain, and their children will not be doomed to misfortune. For they are people blessed by the LORD, and their children, too, will be blessed.
24 I will answer them before they even call to me. While they are still talking to me about their needs, I will go ahead and answer their prayers!
25 The wolf and lamb will feed together. The lion will eat straw like the ox. Poisonous snakes will strike no more. In those days, no one will be hurt or destroyed on my holy mountain. I, the LORD, have spoken!"

Respectfully,

Slo.

So you are saying the bad just die and don't get back up, but the followers of Jesus do get up and go to heaven, is that about right?

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

I have to question whether or not "we are smart enough to survive". The fact that we still have concepts like Hell in so many of our heads tells me we are actually sort of dumb, collectively that is. And any species that puts its own self in the path of such demise as we've created for ourselves has not evolved very far. Sure, we have technology, big deal. Our technology has at the same time put the entire planet at risk of collapse.

And therefore this topic. Hell is one reason We can't see what we are doing, or that we can't see our destructive path. It clogs the mind and set's it up to be fear based. Any animal running around in fear loses its way and falls of a cliff. Deep down we are in a panic, because there is a thought there that we could burn forever. That causes a very deep scar in the psyche, damaging it so that growth of the collective psyche becomes extremely retarded. So we make dumb decisions like burning fossil fuels for energy, we've allowed our numbers to get to an unmanageable level, and we continue with these things even knowing their results, showing us to be really dumb.

I believe the concept of Hell has done more damage to our species than any other because it puts us in a mind of destruction and violence. Just having the thought in our head is violent. A very dumb brain is one that doesn't know how to use its smarts, that’s us in a nutshell. And now we are forced to go into emergency evolve mode to learn how to use our smarts. Not because it's a good thing, not because it's spiritual, not from love or enlightenment, but because we simply won't survive if we don't. We can get past this, but I firmly believe we won’t until we get things like Hell out of our heads. That may seem simplistic, but there is always a root cause to a disease. We have the disease of self annihilation; it comes from Hell.

while i think you are totally correct about the impact that the current version of hell has on human progress, i think we might both be taking it too seriously. there is a portion of the population of humans on earth that believe that they will spend eternity in an afterlife which reflects his or her decisions on earth. this is kinda silly, but then again weaving "dream catchers" to hang over your bed is silly. and reading fortune cookies and relating to them is silly. and believing that when you look at the clock and it says 12:34 you can make a wish is silly. these are all just byproducts of our prototype brains and the little malfunctions that are reflected in silly beliefs abound. we are easily fooled, especially by ourselves. so when you think about the concept of hell for what it is, a glitch in the inner workings of a very primitive cognitive machines, then it becomes a much smaller hurdle.

and given our track record, i really see homo sapien sapien sticking it out through quite a bit of our own mistakes.

 

[Danny Heim]

while i think you are totally correct about the impact that the current version of hell has on human progress, i think we might both be taking it too seriously. there is a portion of the population of humans on earth that believe that they will spend eternity in an afterlife which reflects his or her decisions on earth. this is kinda silly, but then again weaving "dream catchers" to hang over your bed is silly. and reading fortune cookies and relating to them is silly. and believing that when you look at the clock and it says 12:34 you can make a wish is silly. these are all just byproducts of our prototype brains and the little malfunctions that are reflected in silly beliefs abound. we are easily fooled, especially by ourselves. so when you think about the concept of hell for what it is, a glitch in the inner workings of a very primitive cognitive machines, then it becomes a much smaller hurdle.

and given our track record, i really see homo sapien sapien sticking it out through quite a bit of our own mistakes.

I surely hope you are right. But according to scientists, our mistakes are catching up with us.

 

[Etritonakin]

That is absolutely correct. So no, I am not assuming "we can get off earth without blowing ourselves to smithereens first". And we just may do that my friend, if we don't wise up and evolve pretty darn quick.

Wise up and evolve. Hmmmmm.... Do forgive me, but I've just GOT to 'go there'...

So.... you're saying that we should use our intelligence to deliberately design the next step in evolution?

Many of our greatest problems are due to our intellect coupled with short-sightedness, apathy, division, greed, etc.... and it is plausible that we might think our way past such -even agree on a plan and cooperate, but the odds of that happening are another story -not to mention the fact that just about the time a human being has "wised up", they've got one foot in the grave, so educating the next generation -keeping them from repeating our mistakes and convincing them to follow the same plan would also be necessary -and would also affect the odds.

However, guiding our own evolution to the point of overcoming the random would be the greatest problem. Making it absolutely certain that we would survive in spite of other life forms which might threaten us from within or without -natural accidents -random cosmic events, and so on.... would be yet another "step". Such would require exponentially increased power over the physical universe, including massive amounts of knowledge and even foreknowledge to allow us to prevent what would otherwise be -not to mention engineering our bodies to withstand more -or even conquering the death barrier altogether.

If God does not exist, this is the bulk of our logical "to do list". That is a LOT of work!

Even if one does not believe what is written in the bible, one must at least admit that the fact that these issues are addressed therein -and answered at length -is indicative of, at the very least, extreme insight and forethought for an ancient people.

Access to a being with all knowledge -even foreknowledge -of the universe, the potential to have a body that does not decay, is not susceptible to damage by the physical, but which empowers its inhabitant in such a way as to enable the physical universe to be brought into subjection (cosmic events being controlled -the ability to affect the physical by fiat rather than direct manipulation, etc...), a set of universal principles based on the nature of all that exists which -if adhered to -assure peace between all beings and prevent destruction.... uniting all together to accomplish these things -or keeping those who would destroy such from doing so....

All things we'd need to accomplish anyway, but in far less time -all addressed and answered in the bible -all available at the low cost of doing the right thing....

....and you call it TYRANNY??????????? How about the best deal EVER!!!!
Call it fantasy if you do not believe, but TYRANNY????

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


What is this Tyrant's burden for us at present?


I exist. Don't worship or obey gods that do not exist or make images of them.
Don't make my name mean nothing -make it mean what it means.
You WILL take a day off every 7th day.
Be good to your folks. Don't kill folks. Don't steal folks stuff. Don't lie about stuff. Have a happy marriage. Don't mess up anyone else's happy marriage. Don't want what you can't or should not have.


Oh, liberate us from the horror!

 

[Renji]

I believe I'm in the right spot. I want to talk to Christians about Hell. That is all I wish to talk to you about, though I will not reject to your witnessing at all, besides, that is what I'm doing. Witnessing for the right to evolve. So fire away. But please, I would appreciate it if you could keep this debate to Hell only. Thank you.

It's a question really, one I must ask by making a statement first. Well, a story really. But just to get the idea, Why Hell?

Let's go to Hell for a minute.

I'm Ed and I'm dead; a human on earth who failed to get salvation from Jesus Christ. In the Christian faith one either goes to Heaven or goes to Hell sometime after death. In this case, Ed is going to Hell.

It's Ed's time and God does not see Ed in his book, so Peter throws him into the lake of fire, something like that. I think that is actually pretty much it. Oh except one thing, Ed's there for eternity.

Sot it's hot, actually, Ed is on fire. He has landed on hot rocks and they are scraping his knees and his palms and burning at the same time. In fact his is totally on fire. He is in Hell for sure and he is on literal fire. And it hurts; it is searing pain of boils and burned skin. But he sees that he is not dieing. He is as alive as he was when he was thrown in 40 minutes ago. And he wonders when they will get him, but knows they are never going to come, but he can’t believe it and screams for help.

It's been 124 years. Ed still burns, his pain has never let up for 124 years. His pleas for help still fill the hot flames and brush the flames back into his eyes that burn constantly. He is engulfed in fire. It has now been 84,213 years. Ed screams have grown weird and finally at 700 million years to the day Ed stops screaming for one split second and realizes he is just beginning.

It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. He has another moment and he realizes he may as well have been there for 10 minutes, because this time will repeat again at another 41 zillion times a 1000 zillion years and that will still be just the beginning. And then the beginning starts again....

Get it?
I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far?

Woah, the story terrified me... In my opinion there are 3 types of hell. The first one is the physical, emotional state of a person. We can say that a person is "in hell" if he suffers from poverty or stuff like that. The second one is the hell, being depicted as the lake of fire. But it can also be the eternal damnation of sinners.

 

[Slo_Motion_BC]

Hi:
(((( So you are saying the bad just die and don't get back up, but the followers of Jesus do get up and go to heaven, is that about right? ))))

I'm not saying anything except what the bible says.

The bible says that the good and bad go to their graves until Jesus raises them.

The bible says the good receive the gift of life and the bad receive eternal death............

Romans 6:23,NLT,
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

In regard to heaven and earth the bible shows that Jesus will choose some to live in heaven and many to live on earth.

But hell is the grave not a torture chamber.

Respectfully,

Slo.

 

[Slo_Motion_BC]

Hi:

(((( In my opinion there are 3 types of hell. ))))

And I respect your opinion but it does not mean your opinion is fact.

(((( But it can also be the eternal damnation of sinners. ))))

Which means death not torture. It is totally inaccurate to depict a God of Love as the master of torture forever. Fire depicts destruction not torture, Look at mankind today who send their dead relatives to the creamatorium to be put in fire exceeding 1000 degrees F. so turn the body into ashes. Not because they are alive but because they are dead.

Look what God Almighty thinks of putting people in fire on an alter where the person is dead in about three minutes. Yet people think God does this forever................

Deuteronomy 18:9,10,12,
9 "When you arrive in the land the LORD your God is giving you, be very careful not to imitate the detestable customs of the nations living there.
10 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering.
12 Anyone who does these things is an object of horror and disgust to the LORD. It is because the other nations have done these things that the LORD your God will drive them out ahead of you.
13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

Respectfully,

Slo.

 

[logician]

There is no hell or place or eternal punishment in the hereafter(barbarism where a supposed god would be a monster). People do make their own personal hells(personal suffering) here on earth.

 

[Etritonakin]

The bible is pretty specific that some torment will definitely take place (unless those who would be tormented turn from certain things) -but has not happened yet.

Hades and Sheol are the grave -but gehenna is different -named for a valley where trash was constantly burned -and is the lake of fire -in which the incorregible or OTHERWISE INCORREGIBLE will be tormented -though eternal death is apparently the final end of the utterly incorregible. It's a big subject.



Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

G928
βασανίζω
basanizō
bas-an-id'-zo
From G931; to torture: - pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

G929
βασανισμός
basanismos
bas-an-is-mos'
From G928; torture: - torment.

 

[Danny Heim]

Wise up and evolve. Hmmmmm.... Do forgive me, but I've just GOT to 'go there'...

So.... you're saying that we should use our intelligence to deliberately design the next step in evolution?

Many of our greatest problems are due to our intellect coupled with short-sightedness, apathy, division, greed, etc.... and it is plausible that we might think our way past such -even agree on a plan and cooperate, but the odds of that happening are another story -not to mention the fact that just about the time a human being has "wised up", they've got one foot in the grave, so educating the next generation -keeping them from repeating our mistakes and convincing them to follow the same plan would also be necessary -and would also affect the odds.

However, guiding our own evolution to the point of overcoming the random would be the greatest problem. Making it absolutely certain that we would survive in spite of other life forms which might threaten us from within or without -natural accidents -random cosmic events, and so on.... would be yet another "step". Such would require exponentially increased power over the physical universe, including massive amounts of knowledge and even foreknowledge to allow us to prevent what would otherwise be -not to mention engineering our bodies to withstand more -or even conquering the death barrier altogether.

If God does not exist, this is the bulk of our logical "to do list". That is a LOT of work!

Even if one does not believe what is written in the bible, one must at least admit that the fact that these issues are addressed therein -and answered at length -is indicative of, at the very least, extreme insight and forethought for an ancient people.

Access to a being with all knowledge -even foreknowledge -of the universe, the potential to have a body that does not decay, is not susceptible to damage by the physical, but which empowers its inhabitant in such a way as to enable the physical universe to be brought into subjection (cosmic events being controlled -the ability to affect the physical by fiat rather than direct manipulation, etc...), a set of universal principles based on the nature of all that exists which -if adhered to -assure peace between all beings and prevent destruction.... uniting all together to accomplish these things -or keeping those who would destroy such from doing so....

All things we'd need to accomplish anyway, but in far less time -all addressed and answered in the bible -all available at the low cost of doing the right thing....

....and you call it TYRANNY??????????? How about the best deal EVER!!!!
Call it fantasy if you do not believe, but TYRANNY????

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


What is this Tyrant's burden for us at present?


I exist. Don't worship or obey gods that do not exist or make images of them.
Don't make my name mean nothing -make it mean what it means.
You WILL take a day off every 7th day.
Be good to your folks. Don't kill folks. Don't steal folks stuff. Don't lie about stuff. Have a happy marriage. Don't mess up anyone else's happy marriage. Don't want what you can't or should not have.


Oh, liberate us from the horror!

I really like what you say Etritonakin. You are very correct once again. Yes, the task is HUGE. And I agree, we sure can use God and the bible's help, I mean that. I am actually not an atheist, so I would never suggest that our intellect could do this all by itself. I'm very gald you made that point.

It is a huge task, but, it's all we have left, we don't have a choice, we are on the track and the train whistle is blowing, we had better think of something quick. I certainly don't have the answers myself. But, if we can make this leap into a cooperative mind, the answers will come. Our minds are presently clogged, and the idea of Hell is not helping at all. That is why I attack it. It causes a retardation of sorts; we can't go along here retarded and expect to raise ourselves to a higher consciousness. Hell is just one thing, there are many other notions causing this clogging, but Hell, is an obvious one.

 

[Danny Heim]

Hi:
(((( So you are saying the bad just die and don't get back up, but the followers of Jesus do get up and go to heaven, is that about right? ))))

I'm not saying anything except what the bible says.

The bible says that the good and bad go to their graves until Jesus raises them.

The bible says the good receive the gift of life and the bad receive eternal death............

Romans 6:23,NLT,
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

In regard to heaven and earth the bible shows that Jesus will choose some to live in heaven and many to live on earth.

But hell is the grave not a torture chamber.

Respectfully,

Slo.

Though I still see an injustice existing in your interpretation, it is not an injustice that I think would retard evolution all that much. It still sets up God as a tyrant in the sense that an ultimatum still is put forth. "Follow me or die forever." But I can also see a point of reason there, still harsh, but not nearly as harsh as eternal torment of fire. My concerns are with how society is effected by what is in there minds. If Christianity would have established what you are saying for all these centuries, then our evolution would have gone much further. I don't believe what you are saying personally, it is still way too black and white in a multi-colored universe. And my personal image of God is more of a coordinator, not judge and jury. We ourselves are judge and jury. What we do, we suffer for or prosper for in the immediate, now and in the hereafter, it always the same, “YOU” are always there.

Maybe you can go on your own campaign and sway your peers, that'd be good. As you know, there are tons of Christians out there with a totally different view than yours and it doesn't do any favor for Christianity, nor the rest of us.

 

[Danny Heim]

There is no hell or place or eternal punishment in the hereafter(barbarism where a supposed god would be a monster). People do make their own personal hells(personal suffering) here on earth.

agree

 

[SnowyWhiteTiger]

I believe I'm in the right spot. I want to talk to Christians about Hell. That is all I wish to talk to you about, though I will not reject to your witnessing at all, besides, that is what I'm doing. Witnessing for the right to evolve. So fire away. But please, I would appreciate it if you could keep this debate to Hell only. Thank you.

It's a question really, one I must ask by making a statement first. Well, a story really. But just to get the idea, Why Hell?

Let's go to Hell for a minute.

I'm Ed and I'm dead; a human on earth who failed to get salvation from Jesus Christ. In the Christian faith one either goes to Heaven or goes to Hell sometime after death. In this case, Ed is going to Hell.

It's Ed's time and God does not see Ed in his book, so Peter throws him into the lake of fire, something like that. I think that is actually pretty much it. Oh except one thing, Ed's there for eternity.

Sot it's hot, actually, Ed is on fire. He has landed on hot rocks and they are scraping his knees and his palms and burning at the same time. In fact his is totally on fire. He is in Hell for sure and he is on literal fire. And it hurts; it is searing pain of boils and burned skin. But he sees that he is not dieing. He is as alive as he was when he was thrown in 40 minutes ago. And he wonders when they will get him, but knows they are never going to come, but he can’t believe it and screams for help.

It's been 124 years. Ed still burns, his pain has never let up for 124 years. His pleas for help still fill the hot flames and brush the flames back into his eyes that burn constantly. He is engulfed in fire. It has now been 84,213 years. Ed screams have grown weird and finally at 700 million years to the day Ed stops screaming for one split second and realizes he is just beginning.

It has now been 41 zillion years times a 1000 zillion years that Ed has burned in Hell. He has another moment and he realizes he may as well have been there for 10 minutes, because this time will repeat again at another 41 zillion times a 1000 zillion years and that will still be just the beginning. And then the beginning starts again....

Get it?
I gotta ask. How’d this idea ever get this far?

You know, God will send you into Hell. However, it is for your own good and he loves you.