"Life is going great, so I became religious."

[-Peacemaker-]

so what can a believer in jesus do that a non believer can't?
you never answered that.

Phillipians: "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

I believe the one who relies on the power of God to sustain him is given the potential to do good by virtue of that power working through him. I believe the enemies of God don't have. I believe the enemies of God, those who haven't been forgiven for tjeir sins, are distant from God and so do not have his power working in their heart


Colossians 1:21-23 21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

 

[waitasec]

I believe the one who relies on the power of God to sustain him is given the potential to do good by virtue of that power working through him. I believe the enemies of God don't have. I believe the enemies of God, those who haven't been forgiven for tjeir sins, are distant from God and so do not have his power working in their heart

you didn't answer the question.
what can a believer in jesus do that a non believer can't?

 

[Drolefille]

Phillipians: "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

I believe the one who relies on the power of God to sustain him is given the potential to do good by virtue of that power working through him. I believe the enemies of God don't have. I believe the enemies of God, those who haven't been forgiven for tjeir sins, are distant from God and so do not have his power working in their heart

So who do you define as an enemy of God? Because I feel like this is a rather circular definition.

Colossians 1:21-23 21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Paul is so disappointing.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

you didn't answer the question.
what can a believer in jesus do that a non believer can't?

Everybody loves their friends. I believe loving those who don't love you back, especially those openly hostile to you, is the most distinguishing characteristic of a person with God's spirit working through him

 

[Drolefille]

Everybody loves their friends. I believe loving those who don't love you back, especially those openly hostile to you, is the most distinguishing characteristic of a person with God's spirit working through him

And if that person isn't a believer in God? It's still God's spirit?

 

[Blackdog22]

Everybody loves their friends. I believe loving those who don't love you back, especially those openly hostile to you, is the most distinguishing characteristic of a person with God's spirit working through him

Have you ever heard of Buddhists? Heck I will take you down town to talk to a guy who has done so many drugs he loves everyone he comes into contact with, he also doesn't believe in God. If that isn't good enough for you we can go to a rave afterwards and you can see all the love that ecstasy produces in people even after they got laid out by some guy. These all has nothing to do with Jesus or God at all.

So I will further ask what Waitasec has wanted to know. Name one action that is IMPOSSIBLE for a believer to do that a nonbeliever can't. If you think that loving someone you don't like is impossible for someone that doesn't believe like you, then why do you believe this easily falsifiable claim? How exactly can you prove that a Christian actually LOVES the person they should hate? Anyone can act like they love someone, its called putting on a show.

 

[waitasec]

Everybody loves their friends. I believe loving those who don't love you back, especially those openly hostile to you, is the most distinguishing characteristic of a person with God's spirit working through him

i'll repeat a question that was over looked...
so if a person comes into a believers house rapes their wife murders her and tortured their children in the believers presence and that believer begins to harbor hate towards the murderer, they are not allowing god's spirit to work through them, really?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Have you ever heard of Buddhists? Heck I will take you down town to talk to a guy who has done so many drugs he loves everyone he comes into contact with, he also doesn't believe in God. If that isn't good enough for you we can go to a rave afterwards and you can see all the love that ecstasy produces in people even after they got laid out by some guy. These all has nothing to do with Jesus or God at all.

So I will further ask what Waitasec has wanted to know. Name one action that is IMPOSSIBLE for a believer to do that a nonbeliever can't. If you think that loving someone you don't like is impossible for someone that doesn't believe like you, then why do you believe this easily falsifiable claim? How exactly can you prove that a Christian actually LOVES the person they should hate? Anyone can act like they love someone, its called putting on a show.

I'll say this much, in order to be as accurate as possible I don't want to get hung up on the word "impossible". I'll leave it at this: people without the spirit of God working through them DON'T love their enemies AS MUCH AS THEMSELVES. And sadly, too often Christians behave like the spirit of God is NOT working in their lives. I've seen absolutely no evidence to the contrary as I lived the vast majority of my life as an agnostic surrounded by like minded people. Amd no I'm not some 20 year old punk kid despite the fact my profile says I'm a student. I went back to school after many years of living in the real world. I've seen that the human heart is filled with evil. I find an attitude of of self-sufficiency when it comes to living right to be unfathomable. And I'll wager that your knowledge of Buddhism is limited to documentaries on television if you're a Westerner. How many Buddhists do you actually know intimately?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

i'll repeat a question that was over looked...
so if a person comes into a believers house rapes their wife murders her and tortured their children in the believers presence and that believer begins to harbor hate towards the murderer, they are not allowing god's spirit to work through them, really?

You're question hints at an attitude that forgiveness and loving the murderer under these circumstances is damn near impossible if not totally impossible for a human being therefore making it somewhat excusable. I'm saying that such trying circumstances as you've mentioned provide a great opportunity for God's power to shine. And yes, unforgiveness and hate are not products of the spirit of God. It's important to understand that even when one is yeilding good fruit through God's spirit often time it comes with enormous effort and perseverance on the part of the person as the bottom two quotations point out




Galatians 5:19- 22 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Matthew 19:26 26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

1 Corinthian 9:
24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.


Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

 

[waitasec]

You're question hints at an attitude that forgiveness and loving the murderer under these circumstances is damn near impossible if not totally impossible for a human being therefore making it somewhat excusable. I'm saying that such trying circumstances as you've mentioned provide a great opportunity for God's power to shine. And yes, unforgiveness and hate are not products of the spirit of God. It's important to understand that even when one is yeilding good fruit through God's spirit often time it comes with enormous effort and perseverance on the part of the person as the bottom two quotations point out

thought you might find this interesting...

But forgiveness, at least the sort I'm talking about here, is not really about the other person at all. It is about us. As something we can do for ourselves, at least in some circumstances, striving to forgive others is a decent idea with benefits.

When we hold grudges, resentments, or hatred, we invest our own emotional resources in something that typically ends up being toxic for us. Forgiveness, when possible, relieves this burden and is good for our physical and emotional well-being.

Forgiveness: Atheists Can Do It Too

is there anything else you claim believers in jesus can do that non beleivers can't...?
so far you haven't been able to prove that there is.

 

[Blackdog22]

I'll say this much, in order to be as accurate as possible I don't want to get hung up on the word "impossible". I'll leave it at this: people without the spirit of God working through them DON'T love their enemies AS MUCH AS THEMSELVES. And sadly, too often Christians behave like the spirit of God is NOT working in their lives. I've seen absolutely no evidence to the contrary as I lived the vast majority of my life as an agnostic surrounded by like minded people. Amd no I'm not some 20 year old punk kid despite the fact my profile says I'm a student. I went back to school after many years of living in the real world. I've seen that the human heart is filled with evil. I find an attitude of of self-sufficiency when it comes to living right to be unfathomable. And I'll wager that your knowledge of Buddhism is limited to documentaries on television if you're a Westerner. How many Buddhists do you actually know intimately?

What reason does anyone have to believe this? Acting is possible by anyone and Christians are some of the phoniest people I have personally come across, but that is just personal experience, I don't doubt there are sincere Christians. I will also ask that you address the ecstasy problem. I have seen violent people become very loving, even after getting knocked out, while on ecstasy. Does this mean that all love comes from ecstasy or is it possible that loving something has to do with how the human mind develops and nothing to do with a god?

The human heart pumps blood, no evidence of evil in it. If you mean to say people are capable of evil then yes, you are right. Christians and non Christians alike are capable of evil, just as both are capable of loving people who hate them or hating people who hate them. This still shows nothing of any Gods power, I still don't see anything that Christians can do that non Christians can't. You even admitted it wasn't impossible and that Christians can hate their enemies so what basis do you have for arguing this stance?

A conspiracy theorist aye?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Here's the thing about evil. People often change their definition of evil to accomodate not only their desires but also their level of expectations for themselves. Hence, people end up with their own personal definition of "evil" that is totally in accordance with the lifestyle that the want to live. Not only that but they often minimize the sins they do commit in order to be able to justify calling themselves "a good person". The whole thing is rooted in worship of the self and what Thomas Paine called "the church of the mind".

 

[Nakosis]

Here's the thing about evil. People often change their definition of evil to accomodate not only their desires but also their level of expectations for themselves. Hence, people end up with their own personal definition of "evil" that is totally in accordance with the lifestyle that the want to live. Not only that but they often minimize the sins they do commit in order to be able to justify calling themselves "a good person". The whole thing is rooted in worship of the self and what Thomas Paine called "the church of the mind".

The mistake I think is in thinking there is a standard for good and evil.

Of course people are going to justify themselves. it's human nature. However you don't get to set the standard of good and evil for someone else. One can let ideas developed by others set a standard they choose for themselves to live up to. Like the golden rule. Can't demand someone else accepts it as a standard though.

Christians let their religious idealism set a standard of "good" behavior. Like no gay sex. However there is no reason to think is has any real authority over man.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The mistake I think is in thinking there is a standard for good and evil.

Of course people are going to justify themselves. it's human nature. However you don't get to set the standard of good and evil for someone else. One can let ideas developed by others set a standard they choose for themselves to live up to. Let the golden rule. Can't demand someone else accepts it as a standard though.

Christians let their religious idealism set a standard of "good" behavior. Like no gay sex. However there is no reason to think is has any real authority over man.

This is only true in a world where we are all "gods"

 

[9Westy9]

This is only true in a world where we are all "gods"

It's true regardless of existence of god(s).

 

[Nakosis]

This is only true in a world where we are all "gods"

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 12:15

It's one thing to listen to wise advise. It's quite a different matter to let someone else dictate that advise to you as if from God.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 12:15

It's one thing to listen to wise advise. It's quite a different matter to let someone else dictate that advise to you as if from God.

You quoted my sig. Sigs appear on every post, it wasn't directed specifically at you.

 

[waitasec]

Here's the thing about evil. People often change their definition of evil to accomodate not only their desires but also their level of expectations for themselves. Hence, people end up with their own personal definition of "evil" that is totally in accordance with the lifestyle that the want to live. Not only that but they often minimize the sins they do commit in order to be able to justify calling themselves "a good person". The whole thing is rooted in worship of the self and what Thomas Paine called "the church of the mind".

is it evil to want to survive?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

"Life is going great, so I became religious." Do you ever hear someone making that claim? You often hear of people becoming more religious, turning to religion, when the going gets tough. This is often a reason for someone becoming religious in the first place-- God got them through that tough spot.

But it just struck me the other day. You don't often hear of people turning to God when life is good. Why do you think that is?

My life was just fine when I accepted Jesus.

 

[Nakosis]

You quoted my sig. Sigs appear on every post, it wasn't directed specifically at you.

I understand, but it goes along with the idea that it's God who dictates a standard for good and evil in the Bible instead of other men who claim to be speaking for God.

Assuming of course you accept the Bible as having God's authority.