Love, sex, and spirituality

[Alien826]

Demisexual:

Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close emotional bond with them. Forming a bond doesn't guarantee a person will feel a sexual attraction, but the bond is needed before sexual activity is even possible.

Demisexual: Understanding What It Means & FAQs

And here's me thinking it meant a strong attraction to Demi Moore.

 

[Alien826]

You say that like pleasure for pleasure's sake is a bad thing. It's not.

Yes. Images of people in religious festivals lashing themselves with whips come to mind.

Many reject that way of thinking. I do. People don't gratify flesh. They experience pleasure, which has value in and of itself. Harm does not come from experiencing pleasure. It comes from some of the ways people pursue it, as with drugs, unsafe sex, or gambling. But having a massage or a margarita or a jacuzzi or a night of passion are not inherently harmful or undesirable. Au contraire. They're salutary.

Right, true, absolutely, nail on the head, you bet, couldn't say it better.

See my sig.

 

[JDMS]

A lot of these comments are dismissing Trailblazer's experience saying she's a woman, and women don't experience sexuality the same way. Many comments also imply that all men desire sex all the time. Not true. I am a part of an asexual group online, and there are many many men there besides me. Most of us feel sexual desire and masturbate but have no desire to engage in sexual activities with other people. My partner and I are both mostly asexual, so we do not have sex together, despite us both being men. This is not just about men vs. women. Trailblazer's experiences, demisexual or not, are not invalidated by the fact that she's a woman.

Why she thinks she needs to justify her feelings with religion, I'm not sure though.

 

[JustGeorge]

A lot of these comments are dismissing Trailblazer's experience saying she's a woman, and women don't experience sexuality the same way. Many comments also imply that all men desire sex all the time. Not true. I am a part of an asexual group online, and there are many many men there besides me. Most of us feel sexual desire and masturbate but have no desire to engage in sexual activities with other people. My partner and I are both mostly asexual, so we do not have sex together, despite us both being men. This is not just about men vs. women. Trailblazer's experiences, demisexual or not, are not invalidated by the fact that she's a woman.

Why she thinks she needs to justify her feelings with religion, I'm not sure though.

Regarding the men/women thing, that's very true. I had an extremely high sex drive in my 20s into my early 30s(though I expressed that monogamously). I think it dwindled some more based on life's challenges physically wearing me out more so than me being female.

On the flip side, the man who I spent the early part of my 20s with had very little sex drive. When we conceived accidentally, the nurse asked if I knew when it happened, and I laughed, and said "yeah, its the only time we had sex that year!" (The mix match in drives contributed to unhappiness in that relationship, though that wasn't the only factor by any means).

 

[Sand Dancer]

Not really. We are more integrated than that.
What our soul is doing affects our body and vice versa.

Well, sure. Our body is definitely effected by what our mindset, emotions, etc are doing. Good point.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you are ok with masturbation? All good by me but don't let the Baha'i Universal House of Justice know lol.

In my opinion

Personally, I am not okay with masturbation, and I never was even before I became a Baha'i, but what other people do in their private lives is none of my business and I don't make it my business.

As you might know, Shoghi Effendi said that masturbation is not the 'proper use' of the sex instinct, but it is not against any Baha'i Law, and he said not to make a big deal out of it.

 

[Trailblazer]

As we see from the picture there is less (and more gradual) decrease of testore in man.

Most men learn to control our desire but the feelings/thoughts are always there. Once I talked to a priest (celibate) and he said he focuses intensely on work (also physical) to forget about sex... I agree with you about not taking hormones after menopause. But you can still please a man - vaginal sex is not the only possibility...

With all due respect, I don't think that men think about sex 'all the time' just because the testosterone levels are high, I think much of it is psychological. They think about it because they want sex and they want sex because sex feels good.

Whether or not my hormone levels were high or not, if I was in love and married, which is the only way I would ever have sex, I would defer to what my husband wanted and do whatever he wanted. Love for me is all about sacrifice and being unselfish. When there is a will there is a way. I know all the 'ways' to please a man since I have been down this road before.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not everything has to be spiritual. I believe God created sex to be enjoyed and also as a way to bring a couple together. Sex is only contrary to the spirit if it goes against God's law.

No, everything does not have to be spiritual. I also believe God created sex to be enjoyed, as long as God has allowed it under the law, since that is a Baha'i teaching. According to Baha'i Laws, sex is only allowed in marriage between a man and a woman.

“Should a man wish to adorn himself with the ornaments of the earth, to wear its apparels, or partake of the benefits it can bestow, no harm can befall him, if he alloweth nothing whatever to intervene between him and God, for God hath ordained every good thing, whether created in the heavens or in the earth, for such of His servants as truly believe in Him. Eat ye, O people, of the good things which God hath allowed you, and deprive not yourselves from His wondrous bounties. Render thanks and praise unto Him, and be of them that are truly thankful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 276

I don't know what laws you are thinking about as God's laws, but according to the Bible fornication is a sin, and that would make sinners out of multitudes of people, including most Christians.

What is considered fornication in the Bible?

To engage in premarital or extramarital sex, before or outside of marriage, is to sin in God's sight.

Fornication - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

It's a connection with the person you love. Some women don't get it because they don't experience it that way apparently.

Sex is a connection to the person you love, and just as many, if not more, women experience it that way.

However, that does not change the fact that sex gratifies the desires of the flesh, not unless you are a-okay with sex with no orgasms. That also does not change the fact that, according to the Bible, what the flesh desires is contrary to the Spirit. Therein lies my problem with sex, as I do not want to engage is 'any activity' that is contrary to the Spirit.

 

[Trailblazer]

I foresee hundreds of men taking lessons in cat grooming!

If only they knew they might even acquire some cats of their own...
Too bad they don't want to go to the trouble to find out what could be theirs.

Oh, and Amazon has lots of products to treat rust.

I may not need it, since it is kind of like riding a bike. Once one learns how to ride a bike, they can never forget it because it gets stored within the procedural memory.

Just kidding. I really wish you well with your search.

I 'might' have met my match, a man who is as rusty as I am.... Don't faint now, wait till I know more.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

So I haven't been talking about myself much in this thread, so to unravel....

My sex drive tanked after trying estrogen therapy (now off it, but it still tanked). And I too don't think I'll be able to satisfy a man all of the time, should I date one. But I've heard of a newer concept called 'pillow princess', in which the woman just sits there during sex, and that's it. The man does all the work. And some men my age are actually okay with it, that I've talked to.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why she thinks she needs to justify her feelings with religion, I'm not sure though.

Just for the record, I don't think I need to justify my feelings with my religion. Long before I had any religion I felt the same way about sex. I never believed that I should have sex out of wedlock or sex with a man I did not love, and since I would marry the man I love, this would not present a problem for me. I am as happy as a clam in off-season.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it dwindled some more based on life's challenges physically wearing me out more so than me being female.

That is what happened to me, life's challenges wore me out, and then menopause came along.
I don't have the same challenges anymore, and despite being post-menopausal, I could probably get back on the horse and ride again, if I found the right man.

 

[Trailblazer]

So I haven't been talking about myself much in this thread, so to unravel....

My sex drive tanked after trying estrogen therapy (now off it, but it still tanked). And I too don't think I'll be able to satisfy a man all of the time, should I date one. But I've heard of a newer concept called 'pillow princess', in which the woman just sits there during sex, and that's it. The man does all the work. And some men my age are actually okay with it, that I've talked to.

What about a 'pillow prince', in which the man just lies there during sex, and that's it. The woman does all the work.
That has been my only experience with sex but I don't want a repeat experience.

Cut a girl a break. If a man is okay with me just lying there I'll lie there all night, but that has not been my experience.
My experience has been that no man could ever keep up with me so it would not last all night.
@Trailblazer tells all!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What about a 'pillow prince', in which the man just lies there during sex, and that's it. The woman does all the work.
That has been my only experience with sex but I don't want a repeat experience.

Cut a girl a break. If a man is okay with me just lying there I'll lie there all night, but that has not been my experience.
My experience has been that no man could ever keep up with me so it would not last all night.
@Trailblazer tells all!

I've had pillow princesses and princes. It's called laziness. Tends to go along with selfishness.

 

[Trailblazer]

You say that like pleasure for pleasure's sake is a bad thing. It's not.

No, not for everyone.

Because he finds sex a spiritual experience. Why wouldn't he unless he has been taught that it is impure? A spiritual experience is one featuring a sense of well-being and connection. What is healthy sex if not that?

It is a spiritual experience to him, I know that, since all people experience spirituality differently.
You don't think I know the answers to my own questions I posted in the OP?
Of course I know the answers but I was just trying to get people talking, and it worked!
It also helped me understand another perspective different from my own, which is very useful.

Many reject that way of thinking. I do. People don't gratify flesh. They experience pleasure, which has value in and of itself. Harm does not come from experiencing pleasure. It comes from some of the ways people pursue it, as with drugs, unsafe sex, or gambling. But having a massage or a margarita or a jacuzzi or a night of passion are not inherently harmful or undesirable. Au contraire. They're salutary.

When people experience pleasure they gratify the flesh, and vice versa. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. Harm does not come from experiencing pleasure. It comes from some of the ways people pursue it, as with drugs, unsafe sex, or gambling. Having a massage or a margarita or a jacuzzi or a night of passion are not inherently harmful or undesirable, not unless the person is religious and such behaviors go against the laws of their religion. In that case, I think they should take a look in the mirror.

 

[PearlSeeker]

With all due respect, I don't think that men think about sex 'all the time' just because the testosterone levels are high, I think much of it is psychological. They think about it because they want sex and they want sex because sex feels good.

Whether or not my hormone levels were high or not, if I was in love and married, which is the only way I would ever have sex, I would defer to what my husband wanted and do whatever he wanted. Love for me is all about sacrifice and being unselfish. When there is a will there is a way. I know all the 'ways' to please a man since I have been down this road before.

It's not all the time (like the "every 7 seconds" myth) but we certainly think more about it than women. One study shows 19 times a day for men and 10 times for women. It also shows that men think about food almost as much as sex - this points to some additional ways to please a man ...

I don't agree that only wife should sacrifice and husband should get what he wants right away. And besides, a little waiting adds to the excitement.

 

[PearlSeeker]

That also does not change the fact that, according to the Bible, what the flesh desires is contrary to the Spirit. Therein lies my problem with sex, as I do not want to engage is 'any activity' that is contrary to the Spirit.

This means you want to stop eating? Or you leave out just the desert?

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not all the time (like the "every 7 seconds" myth) but we certainly think more about it than women. One study shows 19 times a day for men and 10 times for women. It also shows that men think about food almost as much as sex - this points to some additional ways to please a man ...

If my late husband was thinking about sex, nobody ever would have known it.
As I recall, it was 6 times a day, but no matter. After I stopped having sex I never thought about it unless it as brought up on a forum, and then the 'reason' I was thinking about it was only to discuss it, not because I desired it.

Yes, I have also heard that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach... I'd come up short there since I can't cook very well and certainly not as well as I can so 'other things...' A cooking request would send me right back to the bedroom, which luckily, is right next to the kitchen.

I don't agree that only wife should sacrifice and husband should get what he wants right away. And besides, a little waiting adds to the excitement.

You have a good point there, about the waiting, if a man is willing to wait, and any man who is waiting for me is going to have to wait for the honeymoon. I tell men that right up front.

 

[Trailblazer]

This means you want to stop eating? Or you leave out just the desert?

Where in the Bible does it say that eating food is contrary to the Spirit?
We all know what 'lust of the flesh' refers to. But maybe sexual desire is okay, as long as it is not 'very strong.'

lust: very strong sexual desire.
lust means - Google Search

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

It is not only in the Bible, it is also on the Baha'i Writings.

“It behoveth the people of Bahá to die to the world and all that is therein, to be so detached from all earthly things that the inmates of Paradise may inhale from their garment the sweet smelling savor of sanctity, that all the peoples of the earth may recognize in their faces the brightness of the All-Merciful, and that through them may be spread abroad the signs and tokens of God, the Almighty, the All-Wise. They that have tarnished the fair name of the Cause of God, by following the things of the flesh—these are in palpable error!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 100-101