Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[kai]

From that site:
sorcery, which is magic that uses
the power of evil spirits for evil purposes;

Sorcery can only be
performed with the aid of devils


There were no evil purposes here. His purposes were to entertain and make a living AND there is no proof whatsoever that he actually did sorcery by using the power of any demons. The only thing there is him using his ability to spin a good yarn. NO PROOF of sorcery yet that is what he is tried and convicted of and going to be executed for.

Fortune-telling is considered 'Shirk Akbar' (the major and serious form of
polytheism) for two reasons. First, it implies the acquisition of knowledge of
the Unseen, which is unique to Allah, (alone). 'Say: 'None in the Heaven and the
Earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah, nor can they perceive when they
shall be resurrected.' (Qur?an 27: 65).


Even if he didnt believe himself in what he was doing, the very fact that Muslims could beleive it , condems him. Acting as if you can see the future is a capital offence because it could lead Muslims to believe you actually can see the future when only Allah can do so .

 

[Mr Spinkles]

although that may be nonsense to you, muslims believe it. thats why don't judge us with your views.

"Don't judge us with your views", that's hilarious coming from the guy who reserves the right to arrest, judge, and decapitate foreign citizens based on religious bigotry. Why don't you stop judging others with YOUR views, eselam? At least no one on this forum, not even the people who constantly attack Islam, would have you executed for practicing your religion.

 

[Draka]

Even if he didnt believe himself in what he was doing, the very fact that Muslims could beleive it , condems him. Acting as if you can see the future is a capital offence because it could lead Muslims to believe you actually can see the future when only Allah can do so .

If a Muslim really believed that only Allah could see the future then they would know it was just an act that was being put on. That that person was lying. And lying is "discouraged" in Islam, but AFAIK there is no death penalty for it. If a person is so easily led to doubt Allah by merely watching an entertainment program then they're a pretty weak Muslim...as I said before.

I still don't get the idea of punishing someone for someone else's religious shortcomings.

 

[Draka]

Acting as if you can see the future is a capital offence because it could lead Muslims to believe you actually can see the future when only Allah can do so .

Also, I guess I should be glad I'm not in a Muslim country then. Because my tarot readings get dead on accurate and descript a lot of times. :yes:

 

[kai]

If a Muslim really believed that only Allah could see the future then they would know it was just an act that was being put on. That that person was lying. And lying is "discouraged" in Islam, but AFAIK there is no death penalty for it. If a person is so easily led to doubt Allah by merely watching an entertainment program then they're a pretty weak Muslim...as I said before.

I still don't get the idea of punishing someone for someone else's religious shortcomings.

That is the strength of the grip that Islam holds, to even pretend you have the same ability as Allah is a capital offence , Just in case someone has a doubt.

 

[kai]

Also, I guess I should be glad I'm not in a Muslim country then. Because my tarot readings get dead on accurate and descript a lot of times. :yes:

Well you should be glad your not in Saudi Arabia at least.:yes:

 

[Gharib]

Or it falls under the heading of "lying". Just because someone claims something doesn't mean it is so. Of course, if he makes his living off of telling people predictions, he is going to claim that he can tell the future. BUT, as has been pointed out numerous times, if he could actually do that he wouldn't have gone on his trip and he wouldn't have been arrested. Duh.

still i think you don't understand. no one is arguing whether sorcery is possible or not. a man that claims he knows the unseen (that is the future) he is equating himself to Allah, as i have mentioned many times in my earlier posts.

if i said "i am god" it does not matter whether i truely can do anything i want or not, it is about the intention that i am equal to god knowing very well that i am not.

thus that is the crime he has commited, making himself equal to Allah.

 

[Gharib]

Fortune-telling is considered 'Shirk Akbar' (the major and serious form of
polytheism) for two reasons. First, it implies the acquisition of knowledge of
the Unseen, which is unique to Allah, (alone). 'Say: 'None in the Heaven and the
Earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah, nor can they perceive when they
shall be resurrected.' (Qur?an 27: 65).


Even if he didnt believe himself in what he was doing, the very fact that Muslims could beleive it , condems him. Acting as if you can see the future is a capital offence because it could lead Muslims to believe you actually can see the future when only Allah can do so .

spoken like a muslim would. you sure you ain't muslim?

 

[Gharib]

"Don't judge us with your views", that's hilarious coming from the guy who reserves the right to arrest, judge, and decapitate foreign citizens based on religious bigotry. Why don't you stop judging others with YOUR views, eselam? At least no one on this forum, not even the people who constantly attack Islam, would have you executed for practicing your religion.

that is the whole point Mr Spinkles. Ali Hussain .... is judged by the law that he chose as divine from Allah (swt). it does not matter which government punishes him as long as he is punished correctly. so just because me and him share the same view on that particular law that he is now beng judged with doesn't mean i am judgng him with my view point on what the law should be.

 

[Gharib]

If a Muslim really believed that only Allah could see the future then they would know it was just an act that was being put on. That that person was lying. And lying is "discouraged" in Islam, but AFAIK there is no death penalty for it. If a person is so easily led to doubt Allah by merely watching an entertainment program then they're a pretty weak Muslim...as I said before.

I still don't get the idea of punishing someone for someone else's religious shortcomings.

making ones self equal to Allah whether pretend or not is not allowed in islam.

if anyone was to pretend then, islam does not encourage lying in the first place and muslim are not to lie even when they are joking as many non-muslim tend to do.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

it is not my problem that others cannot tolerate perspectives other than their own. they are at fault.

The Saudi religious police execute people with perspectives other than your own, and you support this. People like kai type their opinion that this is a terrible practice. Who is being intolerant? Did kai call for your execution because he disagrees with you?

The hypocrisy is palpable. How can such a blood-smattering intolerant view be accompanied by such whining and crying in response to verbal criticism?

We all knew the Saudi government does not respect human rights, but it sounds to me like the Saudi government, and its supporters, do not even respect the rule of law or independence of other nations, or the right of foreigners to travel to Arabia in good faith. They only respect two things: their infallible and fanatical ideology, and Power. The U.S. has the Power. Thus, Lebanese and Egyptian and other foreigners can be subjected to this kind of injustice and brutality, U.S. citizens are protected. Not because the Saudis respect our rights, but because they respect U.S. Power.

Like I said before, God bless the United States Marine Corps.

 

[Kerr]

then there is something wrong with you. do you believe your government is against you when it imprisons a criminal? do you disbelieve that your government is doing whats best for it's people if it arrests a person who commits fraud?

This could be said about any law, no matter if it is justified or rediculous.

 

[Gharib]

The Saudi religious police execute people with perspectives other than your own, and you support this. People like kai type their opinion that this is a terrible practice. Who is being intolerant? Did kai call for your execution because he disagrees with you?

The hypocrisy is palpable. How can such a blood-smattering intolerant view be accompanied by such whining and crying in response to verbal criticism?

We all knew the Saudi government does not respect human rights, but it sounds to me like the Saudi government, and its supporters, do not even respect the rule of law or independence of other nations, or the right of foreigners to travel to Arabia in good faith. They only respect two things: their infallible and fanatical ideology, and Power. The U.S. has the Power. Thus, Lebanese and Egyptian and other foreigners can be subjected to this kind of brutality, U.S. citizens are protected. Not because the Saudis respect our rights, but because they respect U.S. Power.

Like I said before, God bless the United States Marine Corps.

i never said Kai was intolerant, i was never speaking at him about himself.

secondly, i don't know the saudi government and the level of corruption in it, so to ask me questions about the saudi government is a waste of time. i cannot answer them. what i can answer however, is whether the man is rightly punished if he has been found guilty according to islamic law.

 

[Gharib]

This could be said about any law, no matter if it is justified or rediculous.

no it can't. i am ok with the law of my government when they catch a criminal.

 

[Kerr]

no it can't. i am ok with the law of my government when they catch a criminal.

Actually it can, if in my country it was illegal to sing and you pointed out how silly that was I could simply state that I see nothing wrong with the government catching criminals.

This law is just silly.

 

[Kerr]

bloody hell how many times will i have to say this, do not judge others with your perspective.

Why should we apply different standards to you?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

can't hardly wait:

Myuran SukumaranAuburn, New South WalesDrug trafficking (Heroin)April 17, 2005Sentenced to death on February 14, 2006.Myuran SukumaranAuburn, New South WalesDrug trafficking (Heroin)April 17, 2005Sentenced to death on February 14, 2006.Myuran Sukumaran (born April 17, 1981), a London born Australian from Auburn, New South Wales, Australia, is the convicted ring leader of a heroin smuggling operation from Indonesia to Australia known as the Bali Nine. Sukumaran was sentenced to execution by firing squad by the Denpasar District Court on 14 February 2006. Sukumaran was unknown to police [1] until his arrest in Indonesia on April 17, 2005.

Myuran Sukumaran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

just try it.

That was not a U.S. citizen, he was not executed in Saudi Arabia but Indonesia, and he was convicted for crimes committed in Indonesia, which are also crimes in other countries -- namely, being the ringleader of a heroin smuggling operation, a very serious crime in Indonesia but also the UK, Australia, and the US. The "sorcerer" we are talking about committed no crime in Saudi Arabia, not even according to their authorities. He visited there in good faith, he was convicted for freely expressing his beliefs in his own country, where it is legal and protected as a basic human freedom.

So try again. By all means my guess could be totally wrong, please educate me: how many U.S. citizens were arrested, convicted, and executed in Saudi Arabia for a religious "crime" they committed in the U.S.? But please, this time spare me the glee which you apparently take in talking about the execution of people.

 

[Kerr]

still i think you don't understand. no one is arguing whether sorcery is possible or not. a man that claims he knows the unseen (that is the future) he is equating himself to Allah, as i have mentioned many times in my earlier posts.

if i said "i am god" it does not matter whether i truely can do anything i want or not, it is about the intention that i am equal to god knowing very well that i am not.

thus that is the crime he has commited, making himself equal to Allah.

Which is not a crime.

 

[.lava]

but like i said, do not let the wrong actions of these people influence you as to what is really right and what is wrong. you may end up in a situation where a muslim does wrong to a non-muslim that doesn't mean you take the muslims side because he would never wrong anyone. you take the side that is just

so you believe it is just to arrest someone during Umra, someone from another nation and give him death penalthy? i am sorry, i think it is unacceptable. i don't care what this or that Imam says about sorcery. there is one truth for anyone on Earth. Saudis don't own Muslims of the world. if they really dislike existence of someone else, then they can deny his entrance into Saudi Arabia. there is nothing right or just about this situation. reflecting your disgust, fear and hatred onto others is not justice. Saudis are either sending a political message to Lubnan or they are announcing themselves as only Muslim authority on Earth. if the 2nd was the truth, that only means war and i would be more than happy to see hypocritical authorities losing power

.

 

[.lava]

That's one of the reasons those laws are barbaric, not just.

that's not true. Laws of Islam does not change. that's not to say all the laws they apply are Islamic. Eselam can not provide any verse from Qur'an that says sorcerer must be killed. once more, it is hadiths. so laws of Islam can not change but in time could be added by adding hadiths to hadith books. that's what happened and wherever there is injust, death penalthies and shedding blood, i came to find always hadiths as excuse as if we don't have Qur'an as book of laws

.