Man Who Was Shot Six Times Still Waiting for Surgery Due to the Overwhelming Number of COVID Cases

[Debater Slayer]

What on earth?

I'm acknowledging an issue I see with a lot of your posts in this thread and simply opting not to engage in fruitless arguments. In my opinion, any discussion that no longer serves a purpose other than arguing for the sake of arguing is better off wrapped up.

 

[We Never Know]

1) There are indeed data showing that most new hospitalizations are occurring among unvaccinated people:

Hospitalizations Spike In States With Low Vaccination Rates As Unvaccinated Covid Patients Fill ICUs

2) I made no assumption that "any unvaccinated were simply being obdurate." However, I'm sure some of them were. This is now beside the point, however, as the main focus should be on how to prevent further damage, not play a blame game for what has already happened.

3) There are multiple states with an ongoing struggle due to COVID outbreaks. It is reasonable to conclude that illegal immigrants are far from the main cause of that; there are other factors that all need to be addressed by those with the power to do so instead of pointing fingers at illegal immigrants as if they were the cause of the current dire situation.

From your link...

Surprising Fact
The country’s most vaccinated state, Vermont (68% are fully vaccinated), experienced the biggest increase in Covid-19 hospitalizations (537%) over the last two weeks. The large figure is a slight distortion given the state’s historically very low numbers, and it has the sixth-lowest case rate in the country when population is taken into account."

 

[crossfire]

I don’t see how this added anything. No one has said that the medical facilities aren’t stressed. None of this data answers why. It doesn’t answer how many of the Covid cases were vaccinated. It doesn’t answer how many are unvaccinated immigrants.

See above post #80. It does list the ethnicity of Covid cases, and the Hispanic cases (35.8%) are just under the total population percentage (39.7%) of Hispanic Texans.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm acknowledging an issue I see with a lot of your posts in this thread and simply opting not to engage in fruitless arguments. In my opinion, any discussion that no longer serves a purpose other than arguing for the sake of arguing is better off wrapped up.

Okay. But you could have said it in a less aggressive way. I don't have high emotionalism invested in politics, so do what's best. Just be respectful. I have no issues with you.

 

[Debater Slayer]

From your link...

Surprising Fact
The country’s most vaccinated state, Vermont (68% are fully vaccinated), experienced the biggest increase in Covid-19 hospitalizations (537%) over the last two weeks. The large figure is a slight distortion given the state’s historically very low numbers, and it has the sixth-lowest case rate in the country when population is taken into account."

As the excerpt touches on, the low numbers in Vermont may produce large percentages when talking about increases, since the original number was extremely low to begin with. For example:

The number of new cases of COVID-19 cases reported in Vermont has been fewer than 10 per day for almost three weeks, but the number of people being hospitalized with the disease is up as is the median age of people being infected, officials said Tuesday.

Even though the number of hospitalizations has increased from a seven-day average of 1.64 on June 13 to 4.21 on Monday, Vermont continues to have the lowest per-capita hospitalization rate in the country, according to the statistics released at Gov. Phil Scott’s weekly news conference.

In mid-May, the median age for those being infected was about 25. On Tuesday the figure was just under 40.

Health Commissioner Dr. Mark Levine said he had no immediate explanation for the increase in hospitalizations or why the age is going up. Even though the numbers are up, they are still small enough so that it is difficult to draw statistically significant conclusions from them.

“We are literally going from one or two cases a day to five or six cases a day,” he said.

Vermont COVID numbers down, but hospitalizations, age up

If you go from two cases a day to six, that's a 200% increase, or 300% of the original number. It's a large percentage but still a low number. On the other hand, if you go from 20,000 to 25,000, that's only a 25% increase (or 125% of the original number) but an increase of 5,000 in terms of raw numbers. That's why looking at percentages alone is insufficient when analyzing such statistics; percentages are a mere function of raw numbers. We should take the latter into account as well.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Okay. But you could have said it in a less aggressive way. I don't have high emotionalism invested in politics, so do what's best. Just be respectful. I have no issues with you.

I didn't intend it to be an aggressive post; I was just being direct. Apologies if it came off as aggressive.

 

[We Never Know]

As the excerpt touches on, the low numbers in Vermont may produce large percentages when talking about increases, since the original number was extremely low to begin with. For example:



Vermont COVID numbers down, but hospitalizations, age up

If you go from two cases a day to six, that's a 200% increase, or 300% of the original number. It's a large percentage but still a low number.

I wasnt debating that. I was pointing out how with 68% fully vaccinated(that's not including those with one shot of two) its still no where near controlled.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I wasnt debating that. I was pointing out how with 68% fully vaccinated(that's not including those with one shot of two) its still no where near controlled.

It's not fully controlled yet, but it's still much better controlled than in states with low vaccination rates.

There are some estimates stating that 70% to 85% of the population need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, so going by those estimates, even 68% is still off that mark, unfortunately:

Q: How much of the population will need to be vaccinated against COVID-19 to slow this pandemic?
A: A vaccinated person acts as a barrier to slow and prevent the virus from continuing to spread. The ultimate end goal is to get as many people vaccinated as possible so that more people are protected. The entire population benefits from a high vaccination coverage, especially those who are most at risk and vulnerable.

Once a population reaches a point of collective immunity where the disease is no longer likely to spread, it reaches the herd immunity threshold. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold, although this will likely be a moving target as we move into different stages of the pandemic. (In contrast, the flu needs between 33% and 44% vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold.)

How Much of the Population Will Need to Be Vaccinated Until the Pandemic Is Over? – Cleveland Clinic

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I didn't intend it to be an aggressive post; I was just being direct. Apologies if it came off as aggressive.

I'm actually at work on my cell phone waiting for relief. So I'm not reading all posts in full. Couple of yours I was going to come back to but I'll drop it.

 

[crossfire]

I don’t see how this added anything. No one has said that the medical facilities aren’t stressed. None of this data answers why. It doesn’t answer how many of the Covid cases were vaccinated. It doesn’t answer how many are unvaccinated immigrants.

The demographic statistic that really jumped out to me are the gender percentages. 64.7% of the Covid cases are male. Texas men are getting covid at nearly twice the rate of Texas women. I wonder why?

 

[We Never Know]

It's not fully controlled yet, but it's still much better controlled than in states with low vaccination rates.

There are some estimates stating that 70% to 85% of the population need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, so going by those estimates, even 68% is still off that mark, unfortunately:



How Much of the Population Will Need to Be Vaccinated Until the Pandemic Is Over? – Cleveland Clinic

"There are some estimates stating that 70% to 85% of the population need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity"

That's false.

Herd immunity (or community immunity) occurs when a high percentage of the community is immune to a disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness).

Herd immunity - APIC


So if 80% is needed for herd immunity, 60% vaccinated and 20% prior illness will be 80%.

 

[Debater Slayer]

"There are some estimates stating that 70% to 85% of the population need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity"

That's false.

Herd immunity (or community immunity) occurs when a high percentage of the community is immune to a disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness).

Herd immunity - APIC


So if 80% is needed for herd immunity, 60% vaccinated and 20% prior illness will be 80%.

I was quoting the link; that's why I said "some estimates." I would hope prior illness would also help in the case of herd immunity from COVID, but since we know that reinfections occur, I'm not counting on it.

 

[We Never Know]

I was quoting the link; that's why I said "some estimates." I would hope prior illness would also help in the case of herd immunity from COVID, but since we know that reinfections occur, I'm not counting on it.

And infections occur in the vaccinated. From what I understand both are rare and both are less severe. I posted a link on it the other day. If I can find it tomorrow I will edit my post and add it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

By priority. Like here there told people they strongly recommend not going to the ER unless it's an emergency. But they won't know if it wasn't unless they went.

Turn down as in deny medical treatment.

Hospitals in LA had to let some people die of cardiac arrest because there was no room for them because of.covid patients. Ambulance drivers were to told to just leave people if the odds didn't look good, all because covid was over straining the system.
That was before the vaccine. Now we're at a point where it's largely and mostly those who are going to hospital and suffering severe illness are unvaccinated. It's rare for someone who is vaccinated to die. Even when we vaccinated people get it we just don't get as sick.
High vaccination rates are the ticket amd key to averting these situations.

 

[stvdv]

In my opinion, cases like this are among multiple reasons a case could arguably be made for mandatory COVID-19 vaccination in areas with a particularly high number of infections and resultant hospitalizations.

IMO:
This is propaganda spreading fear and guilt and impose on people to vaccinate AND to impose on people to give up some basic rights, even God maybe

 

[Debater Slayer]

IMO:
This is propaganda spreading fear and guilt and impose on people to vaccinate AND to impose on people to give up some basic rights, even God

The story of the man is factual, so unless you consider the real-world circumstances surrounding him to be "propaganda spreading fear and guilt," then I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[stvdv]

I think it would be mandatory to operate on a person who has been shot six times.

IMO:
Some people got priorities wrong here, and lacking empathy. This is too insane for words, and seems more like propaganda to me, so that people start accepting imposed vaccination and giving up our basic rights. Probably the next step is that they want us to give up Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech already has gone out of the window quite a bit, with all the censorship going on.

 

[stvdv]

The story of the man is factual

Exactly my point ... you said it was in America ... Texas. Not a third world country?
(not too belittle third world country though, but point out what happened in Texas)

 

[Debater Slayer]

Exactly my point ... you said it was in America ... Texas ... did you not? Third world country or what?
(not too belittle third world country though, but point out what happened in Texas)

I still have no idea what you're trying to say. Yes, it happened in Texas, and any place, third-world or not, is prone to such situations if it doesn't have proper restrictions and measures in place to protect people from the pandemic and its effects on the health infrastructure. What point are you trying to make? Because I'm kinda confused here.

 

[stvdv]

What point are you trying to make? Because I'm kinda confused here.

I can't make it any clearer than I have done, so we seem to be on a different wavelength, we have just a difference in opinion. That's all.