Mickiel's proof of God.

[Tiberius]

I don't want, or need others to agree with me.

I do not need agreement from others. I don't know how many times I must say this.

The proof is not for you, its for me.

Peace.

If it's proof only for you, then it is just opinion. Why don't you call it that?

 

[Tiberius]

There is no way possible that evolution could bring about so mighty a thing as consciousness, and for the life of me, I can't understand why Atheist cannot see that.

Show us something which removes any possibility that consciousness arose from something other than God. Then I will change my mind.

Until then, however, all you are saying is, "I can't imagine how consciousness could be unless there is a god, so consciousness proves there is a god."

Just because you can't imagine a thing, doesn't mean that thing doesn't exist.

 

[Thief]

The orgin of " Names" came from Adam, it was he who created much of the foundation of what we call language, and it was God who taught him. Names fit into language structure, and now a person can be discussed in their absence. Social interaction using language is how civilization began, its how God ordered our soiciety.

Peace.

Are you assuming that Adam was the first man?
Who than was Cain afraid of as he was banished from the Garden?
Who was Cain's wife?
Who lived in the first city built by Enoch?

Language was developed by Man, and confounded by God. (Babel)
And how would this digression support the consciousness as proof of God?

 

[Venatoris]

You keep saying none of them are for you, but then reference the bible. I don't understand.

Neither do I. The only people who refute evolution, do so because it contradicts what they believe to be the word of God. If he does not believe in the same God why would he assume that the bible holds any valuable information about the "true God"?

 

[richardlowellt]

[

QUOTE=mickiel;1753346]It is contridiction. Just because they expect it, does not mean they get it. I know what God ignoring you can be like, he does it to me all the time.

No he doesn't, he gave you a very nice house, why lie and say ignores you all the time?

Peace.[/QUOTE]

 

[Amill]

Well now this I agree with. I willnot be educated by an Atheist, Ohhh, I shutter the thought. I like educating myself, I need nothing from Atheist.

Peace.

Then you should listen to these words by a THEIST
YouTube - Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Then you should listen to these words by a THEIST
YouTube - Ken Miller on Intelligent Design

The sad fact is I posted a ten minute segment from that and he just brushed it off. He's not here to learn. What can we teach him???? Nothing, according to him. Not all scientist (from any field of study) are atheist. But he appears to be completely unaware of that. He's trolling with no attempt to even try and understand the basics of evolution. He's offered nothing other than 'God did it'. While that may be fine for him...it doesn't refute evolution....

 

[cottage]

When cavemen existed, there was no order, because I believe they had no consciousness, as we hold. You know I think its even possible that some cavemen spoke, judged, reasoned, solved problems, but were not conscious at all. Consciousness is what gives us Order, which is why I know Order is a proof of God. As well as consciousness.

Peace.

How is it then, if cavemen had no consciousness, that they judged and reasoned? And were cavemen not the product of God?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I live the proofs of God, my consciousness is my personal opinion, your right, thus whats mine is only for me, thus the proof is only for me.

But you keep on saying

And I want to get into that

Which would indicate that these so called proofs are for more than just you.

And as soon as Dezzie comes in these proofs all of a sudden seem to be for someone else.

Don't you know that lies make baby jesus cry.

And on that note....................................

DAY FOUR

I don't accept any theorys on evolution. Nothing is evolving, all things are growing or decaying and heading to its end. No matter is evolving, its all decaying. No human flesh, or animal flesh is evolving, only decaying.

The capacity to feel Romance is an instilled trait, just as animal behavior is an instilled trait. Things are moving according to their design.

*SIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHH*

There still seems to be no proof. You do however have, you guessed it, more personal opinion, and an ignorant denial of biological fact.

I'm starting to think you lied about having proof.

What's that i hear *cups hand to ear* is that the cries of a baby messiah.

Peace.

-Q

 

[cottage]

Smell, touch, then taste the food, oh how enjoyable that is. To experience such joys in our life, we have a God who lit up these experiences for us. We can hear sound, and enjoy sound. All these things come from God, and are proofs of God.

Peace.

To follow the logical conclusion of your argument(s) everything existent is proof for God. Everything of beauty and joy and every instance of ugliness and wretchedness comes from God. The child who dies from cancer, the tree that falls on a car, crushing its inhabitants to death, the volcano that destroys a village, the fact that animals kill and eat other animals, humans kill and eat animals and men kill each other - can only happen because God, if he exists, permits it. So to the contrast that is an enjoyable meal in a backdrop of the unspeakable evil that God causes and allows is a monstrous comparison.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

romance is equivalent to illusion

romance = illusion

when tiny little girl dreams of a pinky pony running on a rainbow jumping from a puffy cloud to another this is what i call "romance"

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Universe is in a state of condition marked by harmony or methodical arrangement. It has been successively arranged. This arrangement reveals establishment of sequence as if its ordained by someones powerful will. It was prescribed which reveals an authority invested in it. Since all things have an ordering about them, orelse they would lack reason, there must be a being that gives all things order, or plans all things. The Universe has no mind or intelligence to have established or planned itself, its structure comes from an intelligence, its order was planned. That order comes from and proves God.

Peace.

so, i conclude that faith in God, is not enough to attain his pleasure since he created every thing in order.

(beside beleiving in God) we have to to be in accordance with"God's order" which he has revealed to us by his messengers(LAW)

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

Consciousness is not a simple matter to discuss, but I view only humans as having it. We have Reminiscent memory ( or Episodic memory) we have habit Retention ( or semantic memory) we thus have Conscious Lives. The awareness of " Self" means we are conscious of our own persona over time, a sense of who we are, our hopes and fears, as we daydream about ourselves in relation to others.

Animals do not imagine themselves as being anywherelse, or thinking of their lives over time, or introspecting in any sense, thus they are not Conscious.

Consciousness is a Proof of God's existance, and I want to go into why I believe that.

Peace.

i think that Consciousness clasiffied acording to following

1- Consciousness which enjoying peace because you are confident that your deeds reflect your loyality to God

2- Consciousness which blame you many time for the wrong deeds you have done, and cause you live in dispute with yourself.

3- Consciousness which motivate you to do wrong deeds and is not affected by blaming.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Well I agree with the distinction. However I maintain that Atheist themselves are proof of God, any human is a proof of God. All life is proof of God.

...all evidence against God is proof of God, everything is proof of God, nothingness is proof of god, bagels are proof of God.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

I don't know, or I would say. All things in my mind need to have a beginning, and the bible calls God the beginning and the end, meaning he is the total gamet of life. Does God then have a beginning? The bible states that he has always existed, and I certainly don't understand how that is. I have my theorys concerning that, but they are just quesses.

Peace.

If everything has a beginning then God has one too.
If God has none, then not everything has one.
If god is "the" beginning (which is an abstract term) then he is no "being".
If he is a being, then he is no abstract term like beginning or end.

 

[mickiel]

[No he doesn't, he gave you a very nice house, why lie and say ignores you all the time?

Peace.

[/quote]


I hold no need to lie on these forums, nor about my desire to explain what goes on between me and God. Most of the time, God ignores me, and all I have is my Hope that he will be there when I really need him. I don't think I am aware of the few times he does pay some attention. God has " Eyes" or Angels who do a lot of survielence for him , I would assume. Discussing God is difficult, he is just different.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

To follow the logical conclusion of your argument(s) everything existent is proof for God. Everything of beauty and joy and every instance of ugliness and wretchedness comes from God. The child who dies from cancer, the tree that falls on a car, crushing its inhabitants to death, the volcano that destroys a village, the fact that animals kill and eat other animals, humans kill and eat animals and men kill each other - can only happen because God, if he exists, permits it. So to the contrast that is an enjoyable meal in a backdrop of the unspeakable evil that God causes and allows is a monstrous comparison.

Well now this is correct, I agree here. Everything existant is proof of God, things both good and evil. This is why I do not try to prove God to others who cannot understand this. Everything is proof of God in one persons mind, then in another persons mind, nothing is proof. What are two contrasting people like this going to accomplish in a conversation about God? All this proof, millions of them, and they can't see one. I don't try to prove God to anyone like that, its meaningless to even try.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

There is Sequence in God, he plans and predestines things. That is Order. This entire Universe is sequenced and well Ordered. The four Seasons on Earth are well ordered, Fall, winter Spring and Summer. This Order is proof of God.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Try to kill your Consciousness , by using your Consciousness to do it. You can't, because Consciousness is continual. This is the Thing about God that I struggle with, his continuity, his Eternal Life Force. And its what he plans to give all of humanity, Life, Consciousness, that will never stop. And often that frightens me, to be alive forever, and Ever, and ever. I just can't think like that, that far advanced, that far ahead. It just does not seem real, and just too Good to be true.

So I understand others for not believing. God has always been alive, that stumps me right there, but still I want to get into it a little bit.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

...all evidence against God is proof of God, everything is proof of God, nothingness is proof of god, bagels are proof of God.

Everything, all things , are a Proof of God. HummingBirds are Proof of God. Human fingernails are proof of God. A blade of grass, thunder in the sky, Space itself, wind, the Moon, your Mind, your Consciousness, your tears, all these are proofs of God.

But your Consciousness is a serious proof of God, and I want to go into that deeper.

Peace.