Migrants with child brides

[England my lionheart]

Fair enough. I can understand your opinion about all this.
Me? At day's end I support our legislation, whatever that may be..... we can always seek to get it changed with our votes.

Moral fibre is such an intangible character asset, though, and where countries allow marriage at 14 or 15 yrs I expect that folks there don't think that husbands/couples are disgusting and lacking moral fibre. I expect that some cultures think that we are generally despicable and of weak fibre.

I don't think countries that allow child marriage just lack moral fibre, they are ignorant, they can keep their culture. (sticks out tongue)

 

[oldbadger]

A lot of countries that allow child marriages have population that believes it is wrong.

I don't doubt that populations have a wide range of political opinions. But their laws are their laws.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't think countries that allow child marriage just lack moral fibre, they are ignorant, they can keep their culture. (sticks out tongue)

I don't mind you sticking out your tongue, 'cos you didn't stretch mouth with fingers and wiggle it about...... that would be untenable. Of course there are still some US States that will allow child marriages for various reasons, and some folks might feel that such judgements are wise and righteous...... so, well, you know, I still don't want to do the self-righteous judgemental thing myself..... I'll leave that to you... (thumbs in ears and wiggling fingers about).

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't mind you sticking out your tongue, 'cos you didn't stretch mouth with fingers and wiggle it about...... that would be untenable. Of course there are still some US States that will allow child marriages for various reasons, and some folks might feel that such judgements are wise and righteous...... so, well, you know, I still don't want to do the self-righteous judgemental thing myself..... I'll leave that to you... (thumbs in ears and wiggling fingers about).

I'll just go with the law being the judge, its there for a reason right.

 

[oldbadger]

I'll just go with the law being the judge, its there for a reason right.

I'm cool with that.......

I remember the crazy actions of a bunch of social workers in Scotland, nearly thirty years ago........ a typical example of agenda driven investigation by incompetent buffoons. I've cut a Daily Record article into precis, here:-
The Orkney child abuse scandal.
In 1991 a squad of officials seized nine children from their beds. Five boys and four girls, aged eight to 15.
The raids were a response to claims of ritualistic satanic abuse made by a girl during therapy sessions with social workers and police, who claimed that she and her friends had been abused in a bizarre ceremony. She spoke of a masked man called "The Master" - alleged to be a local Christian minister, leading chants and dancing in a local quarry with dozens of adults.
She spoke of adults dancing naked in a circle, with music, drinks and wearing strange costumes. She claimed that she and other children would be taken into the centre of the circle and sexually abused.
The four families involved were from four different faiths - Jewish, Church of Scotland, Baptist and Quaker. Suspicions intensified when the authorities learned Quakers prayed without a minister present - and gathered in a circle.
Social workers decided to act and, on February 27, 1991, removed nine children named by the other family from their Orkney homes. They then began trying to corroborate allegations with nearly 60 hours of interviews. The social worker who led the interviews, advocated controversial new theories from the US on child abuse and interviewing techniques. Despite intensive questioning, none of the children seized said they had been abused.
The children spent five weeks on the mainland away from their homes, where they were denied contact with their families. They were interrogated for hours, days and weeks. They were subjected to cross-examinations designed to make them admit to being abused. Most were placed in foster homes but one boy was sent to a List D school and with teenage convicts.
August1991: Public inquiry opens in Kirkwall under Lord Clyde.
October 1992: Lord Clyde's report savages the social workers' actions.
March 1996: Four families accept compensation deal - one receiving £40,000 - and full apology.
Today, many of those directly involved in the events are either dead or have no desire to talk about the episode.

 

[England my lionheart]

I'm cool with that.......

I remember the crazy actions of a bunch of social workers in Scotland, nearly thirty years ago........ a typical example of agenda driven investigation by incompetent buffoons. I've cut a Daily Record article into precis, here:-
The Orkney child abuse scandal.
In 1991 a squad of officials seized nine children from their beds. Five boys and four girls, aged eight to 15.
The raids were a response to claims of ritualistic satanic abuse made by a girl during therapy sessions with social workers and police, who claimed that she and her friends had been abused in a bizarre ceremony. She spoke of a masked man called "The Master" - alleged to be a local Christian minister, leading chants and dancing in a local quarry with dozens of adults.
She spoke of adults dancing naked in a circle, with music, drinks and wearing strange costumes. She claimed that she and other children would be taken into the centre of the circle and sexually abused.
The four families involved were from four different faiths - Jewish, Church of Scotland, Baptist and Quaker. Suspicions intensified when the authorities learned Quakers prayed without a minister present - and gathered in a circle.
Social workers decided to act and, on February 27, 1991, removed nine children named by the other family from their Orkney homes. They then began trying to corroborate allegations with nearly 60 hours of interviews. The social worker who led the interviews, advocated controversial new theories from the US on child abuse and interviewing techniques. Despite intensive questioning, none of the children seized said they had been abused.
The children spent five weeks on the mainland away from their homes, where they were denied contact with their families. They were interrogated for hours, days and weeks. They were subjected to cross-examinations designed to make them admit to being abused. Most were placed in foster homes but one boy was sent to a List D school and with teenage convicts.
August1991: Public inquiry opens in Kirkwall under Lord Clyde.
October 1992: Lord Clyde's report savages the social workers' actions.
March 1996: Four families accept compensation deal - one receiving £40,000 - and full apology.
Today, many of those directly involved in the events are either dead or have no desire to talk about the episode.

When they get it wrong they do it big style,its the ones they miss that are true that stand out.

 

[Shad]

"Should a 14-year-old married girl who migrates to Europe be viewed as a child - or a spouse?

A child that is victim of abuse.

The issue has put European governments in a spin: forcing a policy U-turn in Denmark, new legislation in the Netherlands and an agonised debate in Germany."
Migrant child brides put Europe in a spin

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-37518289

Hilarious that the left is finally figuring out cultural/religious difference can be a major issue. Now their shortsightedness and willful blindness is being played out /popcorn

So, should nations accept and permit migrants to continue having sexual relations with minors, when it is against the law to do so?

Nope. Those migrants can go to a nation which tolerates child abuse like the one they came from or similar.

 

[Shad]

I thought that some US States will allow 14yr olds to marry under some circumstances?

Parental consent and an official statement for the record for those cases.

 

[oldbadger]

Parental consent and an official statement for the record for those cases.

Fair enough......... the law is the law. And where a girl has become pregnant and the couple want to try for a good family base for the child, and love each other, I reckon that's not so bad.

There may well be genuine cases amongst true asylum seekers, but they'll be very rare in any event. The cases that just fancy living here (or anywhere) are a totally different matter, I reckon.

 

[Shad]

There may well be genuine cases amongst true asylum seekers, but they'll be very rare in any event.

Sure. Case between minors not cases between adult males and 14 year old females. As per the article a number of these marriages are made for convenience ergo exploitation given a whitewashing. There have been UN reports dating to before the Syrian War and during about this issue(s).

 

[Wirey]

"Should a 14-year-old married girl who migrates to Europe be viewed as a child - or a spouse?

The issue has put European governments in a spin: forcing a policy U-turn in Denmark, new legislation in the Netherlands and an agonised debate in Germany."
Migrant child brides put Europe in a spin

So, should nations accept and permit migrants to continue having sexual relations with minors, when it is against the law to do so?

Good article. Thanks.

 

[oldbadger]

Sure. Case between minors not cases between adult males and 14 year old females.

It's all to do with different cultures, even religions.
What age for a husband (of a 14/15yrs old bride) would you decide is not a disgusting perversion? You must have an age in mind?

 

[Shad]

It's all to do with different cultures, even religions.
What age for a husband (of a 14/15yrs old bride) would you decide is not a disgusting perversion? You must have an age in mind?

Two year difference provided there was a relationship not just sex.

*This is the US law which is similar to my view.*

Romeo And Juliet Law Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

 

[Shad]

"Should a 14-year-old married girl who migrates to Europe be viewed as a child - or a spouse?

The issue has put European governments in a spin: forcing a policy U-turn in Denmark, new legislation in the Netherlands and an agonised debate in Germany."
Migrant child brides put Europe in a spin

So, should nations accept and permit migrants to continue having sexual relations with minors, when it is against the law to do so?

Food for thought. If this standard is changed for refugees and/or immigrants beyond a limit like Romeo and Juliet laws previous statutory rape cases can and will be called into question. After all this creates an exemption to the law for a group thus is a special privilege. Equal application of the law is null and void. Now all people need to do is claim religion or cultural exemptions.

Instead of "I didn't know she was 17!" it will be "It is within my religious and/or cultural norms! How dare you judge me!" The radical LDS members in Bounty would love this exemption.

 

[oldbadger]

Two year difference provided there was a relationship not just sex.

*This is the US law which is similar to my view.*

Romeo And Juliet Law Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Let me quote part of that link, it shows that the victim would be between 14-17 years and the other partner must be no more than 4 years older.

But in the UK, I can tell you that a 20+ 30+ 40+ years old person can have a sexual relationship with a consenting 16yr old in the UK, so you can see how different our laws are in the West. A 17yr old here is a child, and our child brides can marry any age with parental consent.

We don't allow your Romeo Juliet laws here, but would we understand if an 'R&L' couple came here for a holiday?

Here is an example of diplomatic understanding being needed between countries, especially where genuine couples are running for their safety.

 

[Katzpur]

The radical LDS members in Bounty would love this exemption.

Who?

 

[Spiderman]

Who?

Once again you have shown that when somebody makes a comment about Mormons, Katzpurr will appear!

 

[Katzpur]

Once again you have shown that when somebody makes a comment about Mormons, Katzpurr will appear!

But I don't have a clue what he's talking about!

 

[Spiderman]

But I don't have a clue what he's talking about!

That makes two of us!

 

[Shad]

Who?

There is a group of "radical LDS" (I do not know what you would call them) in a town called Bountiful (I messed up the name). They practice polygamy and abused young women and girls with the marriage arrangements. It has links with Jeff Warren as a leader. The group has been under investigation in Canada and the US for their "family" practices for years.