Misquote in the Gospel

[savagewind]

If the red, the black and the pale horse ride on the Earth, WHY DO YOU SAY THE WHITE HORSE IS RIDING IN HEAVEN? @kjw47

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Are you saying they did not die? The wages of sin = death--they all paid it themselves.

That is a perfect example of the twisted view of the witnesses!

The "wages of sin is death", do you not understand that verse?

If you sin, your wage for sin is death, a sinner DOES NOT PAY that wage, death is what is earned, or paid TO the sinner for sin. Sin pays us the wage of death for sinning, how do you get the sinner PAYS THE WAGE of death for sin?

 

[Oeste]

No righteous war has been fought on earth..

Wow!

Either you skipped a lot of scripture in ministry class or you're making things up as you go along.

I skipped nothing

Then you must be making it up as you go along.

Wars of men are not righteous.

Try putting down the Watchtower publications and reading the Old Testament on your own.

Its murder unless willed by God. The only wars God ever willed was through the Israelites in the ot--0 in the nt.

Nonsense!

Obviously you've never read your bible, just Watchtower pamphlets and magazines, and/or are simply making this stuff up as you go along.

Try picking up your NWT, reading the book of Esther, and then post back here the exact scripture where God commands the Jews to kill.

I need you to pay particular attention to Esther 8:11:

Wherein the king granted the Jews that were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, their little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,​

Do you see Jehovah commanding the Jews to stand and kill or is it someone else?

When you're ready to read your bible on your own, without off-loading whatever critical thinking processes you have to some third party, let us know. We're here to discuss scripture, not to hear some talking point from a Watchtower magazine that not only conflicts with scripture, but as has been shown numerous times on this forum, even conflicts with itself.

 

[Oeste]

That is a perfect example of the twisted view of the witnesses!

The "wages of sin is death", do you not understand that verse?

If you sin, your wage for sin is death, a sinner DOES NOT PAY that wage, death is what is earned, or paid TO the sinner for sin. Sin pays us the wage of death for sinning, how do you get the sinner PAYS THE WAGE of death for sin?

I'm glad he's not running a company.

I'm thinking that if @kjw47 put up a sign, "the wages for logging is $500.00/day", he would expect each logger to hand over $500.00 at the end of the day.

 

[savagewind]

Dear man, @kjw47 I realize that no manner of evidence will convince you that what you are being taught is not all right but I am going to have a go of it again because I can.

Jesus has been in Heaven since his rising to it. Mark 16:19 Luke 22:69 Luke 24:51
Acts of the Apostles 1:9 Acts of the Apostles 7:55

I think that we can agree on one thing and that is Jesus does the will of God, The Father. [Call God Jehovah if you want to.]

Jesus, pictured as the lamb of God (John 1:29) is present in Heaven and it is written that he alone is able to open the seals of what is to come [or was to come]. He is in Heaven.

His opening the seals allows for something to happen. He doesn't make them happen. Another creature's voice makes them happen.
Jehovah's Witnesses say that the first thing to happen is that a voice calls forth Jesus.

The reason I did not join the chorus for the love of Ramond Franz is because he let that nonsense slide.
Instead of blah blah blahing about what the JWs do behind closed doors, I thought maybe he should have made real corrections. Now, me a silly, stupid girl has to do it all alone.

It seems the children of God must believe* that a lesser creature calls forth Jesus to ride. But I know and the Jehovah's Witnesses TEACH that Jesus only does the will of the Father.
He doesn't do his own will. Surely I can't call it true that he obeys the sound of a voice. But to be saved (according to the JWs) we have to believe* he does do the will of the voice of one of the four living creatures.

*that's the one mind thing which says to do good to the least one of the brothers of Jesus is to do good to the governing body members is to believe what they say. Nonsense? It's a good bet it is.

 

[savagewind]

What I said @kjw47 is that the rider of the white horse can't picture Jesus Christ because it was the voice of a creature which called it to ride.

 

[savagewind]

OK. This is what I have to learn.

1. to be saved I must obey God
2. God has given us the faithful and discreet slave to obey
3. to obey means to listen to and believe what they say
4. The faithful and discreet slave says there is someone between Jehovah and Jesus whom Jesus obeys.
They say it because they teach that the rider of Revelation 6:2 is Jesus and it was the voice of a creature who called him to ride.

Is this correct?

That the rider of the first white horse can't be Jesus is right. If the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses does not correct that, can it be said of them that they really don't
correct their wrongs? If they won't correct their wrong interpretation which they teach in the name of Jehovah, they are like everyone else who they say won't be corrected and what do they say will happen to them? OR is calling someone who is not Jesus Jesus something to be overlooked?

 

[savagewind]

The answer has come to me. It won't be overlooked that they call that bad rider the name of Jesus.
The reason is The Holy Spirit. Speaking against the Holy Spirit for which Jesus really rides is
a sin that can't be overlooked. Mark 3:29-30.

The Jehovah's Witnesses and many others who say that Jesus is he who rides with war, famine, and death are not saying that Jesus HAS an unclean spirit. They are actually saying and teaching that he IS an unclean spirit.

 

[savagewind]

Even so, this is not the white horse which carries He who is Faithful and True in Revelation Rev. 19:11+. For it is the Lamb who has just loosed the first seal sending this horseman out. It violates all logic for the same person to be opening the seal and sending himself forth.3 “Moreover, it would be inappropriate to have an angelic being call forth Christ or his servants.”4 If Christ rides forth here, who is it that remains in heaven to open the remaining seals?5 This rider carries a bow whereas Christ’s weapon is a sword (Rev. Rev. 2:12+; Rev. 19:15+). This rider is alone whereas Christ is followed by the armies in heaven also riding on white horses (Rev. Rev. 19:14+). Finally, this rider sets forth at the beginning of the Tribulation whereas Christ rides forth at its end.

Revelation 6:2 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

 

[kjw47]

I do not know what the right thing to say is. What do you think "saved" means?

Is in good standing with God--one can lose that good standing.

 

[kjw47]

I don't believe you can be so stupid. Go ahead report me!
Jesus is a lamb IN HEAVEN. He opens the seven seals. Correct?
Out comes a rider on a white horse. Is Jesus then still in Heaven opening the rest of the seals?
Jesus is still in Heaven. AFTER the white horse rides (you say he rides in Heaven) another seal is opened. By whom is it opened? The rider of the white horse????????????????????????????
Please read again what the rest of the riders do, pretty please. What they do is all about THE EARTH!

The sequence as it occurred =

Michael defeated satan and his angels in heaven riding the white horse--cast them out of heaven forever. He( Jesus) received his crown.
Satan came as a devouring lion, angry, knowing his time is short. Filled mortal hearts with hatred all over the earth-thus-ww1-- millions slaughtered in hate--after the ww1-- the other 3 riders rode on the earth--millions upon millions died from the filth of slaughtering one another, starvation, diseases, etc.
The real purpose behind what satan did was to try and stop the preaching of the good news of Gods kingdom that began shortly before he came. He basically did stop it, but after the leaders were released from prision it started up again full force. The leaders who applied Jesus and refused to kill their brothers. Jesus would NEVER condone the brothers in Christ killing one another for a mortal run govt. The false religions threw Jesus away to accomplish that.

 

[kjw47]

That is a perfect example of the twisted view of the witnesses!

The "wages of sin is death", do you not understand that verse?

If you sin, your wage for sin is death, a sinner DOES NOT PAY that wage, death is what is earned, or paid TO the sinner for sin. Sin pays us the wage of death for sinning, how do you get the sinner PAYS THE WAGE of death for sin?

Its fact--The wages of sin = death.--certain lying teachers tell their flock that Jesus covered their sin--but them dying proves that teacher a liar. If Jesus covered them, they wouldnt owe the wage themselves, yet all have paid it themselves.
Its during the trib and those brought through har-mageddon--these are covered by Jesus, these are the ones who will never taste death. Its open to all--Few find the way.
What is really meant when the bible teaches Jesus death covers everyones sin--it just meant--everyone has the opportunity to take full advantage of that sacrifice--yet Few do.

 

[kjw47]

Revelation 6:2 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

a commentary by a servant of a non existent trinity god-- no one with wisdom listens to them.

 

[savagewind]

Is in good standing with God--one can lose that good standing.

I don't agree that saved means to be in good standing with God or why would it be written, "there is no one righteous, no, not one!"?
I agree that a person can lose his way with God, but to do so is by his or her own volition. Nobody can take you or me or anyone away from God's love which is in Jesus Christ. It is a choice anyone might make to stop seeking Jehovah and to stop following Jesus Christ.

I wonder what all those men who you trust will do if they discover that Jehovah had let them leave him?

 

[savagewind]

a commentary by a servant of a non existent trinity god-- no one with wisdom listens to them.

I know. Even when they are right. Too bad.

 

[kjw47]

Then you must be making it up as you go along.



Try putting down the Watchtower publications and reading the Old Testament on your own.



Nonsense!

Obviously you've never read your bible, just Watchtower pamphlets and magazines, and/or are simply making this stuff up as you go along.

Try picking up your NWT, reading the book of Esther, and then post back here the exact scripture where God commands the Jews to kill.

I need you to pay particular attention to Esther 8:11:

Wherein the king granted the Jews that were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, their little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,​

Do you see Jehovah commanding the Jews to stand and kill or is it someone else?

When you're ready to read your bible on your own, without off-loading whatever critical thinking processes you have to some third party, let us know. We're here to discuss scripture, not to hear some talking point from a Watchtower magazine that not only conflicts with scripture, but as has been shown numerous times on this forum, even conflicts with itself.

God was with Israel--His prophets told the king what to do. God is with 0 mortal govts today. He was with 0 back then except when Israel stood strong, yet they fell over and over.
Why don't you show us where any war in the ot was called righteous war?????

 

[savagewind]

God was with Israel--His prophets told the king what to do. God is with 0 mortal govts today. He was with 0 back then except when Israel stood strong, yet they fell over and over.
Why don't you show us where any war in the ot was called righteous war?????

Did God not command a war that Israel fought for their promised land?

 

[savagewind]

If someone who trusts that God and Jesus are of the same something or other explains that Jesus could not have been in Heaven opening seals and at the same time riding as the first horseman you will think the opposite because......why?

I think it is so that you can stand in a different place looking righteous. You won't enlist anyone who is able to think logically with that doctrine.

 

[savagewind]

@kjw47 Can I say something personal? I think you are adorable.

 

[kjw47]

Dear man, @kjw47 I realize that no manner of evidence will convince you that what you are being taught is not all right but I am going to have a go of it again because I can.

Jesus has been in Heaven since his rising to it. Mark 16:19 Luke 22:69 Luke 24:51
Acts of the Apostles 1:9 Acts of the Apostles 7:55

I think that we can agree on one thing and that is Jesus does the will of God, The Father. [Call God Jehovah if you want to.]

Jesus, pictured as the lamb of God (John 1:29) is present in Heaven and it is written that he alone is able to open the seals of what is to come [or was to come]. He is in Heaven.

His opening the seals allows for something to happen. He doesn't make them happen. Another creature's voice makes them happen.
Jehovah's Witnesses say that the first thing to happen is that a voice calls forth Jesus.

The reason I did not join the chorus for the love of Ramond Franz is because he let that nonsense slide.
Instead of blah blah blahing about what the JWs do behind closed doors, I thought maybe he should have made real corrections. Now, me a silly, stupid girl has to do it all alone.

It seems the children of God must believe* that a lesser creature calls forth Jesus to ride. But I know and the Jehovah's Witnesses TEACH that Jesus only does the will of the Father.
He doesn't do his own will. Surely I can't call it true that he obeys the sound of a voice. But to be saved (according to the JWs) we have to believe* he does do the will of the voice of one of the four living creatures.

*that's the one mind thing which says to do good to the least one of the brothers of Jesus is to do good to the governing body members is to believe what they say. Nonsense? It's a good bet it is.

100% fact-- the teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers. Those taught a trinity refuse to believe Jesus even though his teachings contradict many of their teachings.
They say being a member of the organization is likened to being on the Ark( Noah')-- And if they are teaching truth( I know 100% they are) they are correct. Only they are being instructed at the proper time( when God wills)-- Yes, they err--they are imperfect- By making correction to error teachings in front of the whole world proves truth is what they are about.