Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Eyes of Non-Muslims

[Gharib]

Christianity by the nature of humanity may have used the sword, but not by the nature of Christianity.

Islam, by the nature of Islam, used the sword to convert people. That has discredited the entire religion; absolutely.

oh so its alright for christians to kill people to conversion and its not ok for islam, for us too it is a human nature and not that of the religion, if it isn't for us nor is it for you, you have claimed that christians converted people by the sword and islam hasn't, i have claimed that and so does everyother muslim.

 

[England my lionheart]

oh so its alright for christians to kill people to conversion and its not ok for islam, for us too it is a human nature and not that of the religion, if it isn't for us nor is it for you, you have claimed that christians converted people by the sword and islam hasn't, i have claimed that and so does everyother muslim.

Esalam we have been through all tis before so i have no comment but its good that you have apologised for the outburst but i have seen much worse here.
Welcome back

 

[kai]

oh so its alright for christians to kill people to conversion and its not ok for islam, for us too it is a human nature and not that of the religion, if it isn't for us nor is it for you, you have claimed that christians converted people by the sword and islam hasn't, i have claimed that and so does everyother muslim.

and here in lies the problem either you are unaware of the History of Islamic expansionism ,unaware of the Islamic empires or you don't want to believe it, Do you Honestly believe that Islam rose from Arabia and spread vast empires across the Globe by peaceful means, That they conquered the Byzantine and Sassanid empires by love, come on you cant be that naive?


at least Christians admit it!

 

[Gharib]

Esalam we have been through all tis before so i have no comment but its good that you have apologised for the outburst but i have seen much worse here.
Welcome back

thanks England i appreciate your forgiveness, i really am sorry for what i said, i realised it but it was to late to take it back. thanks alot

 

[Gharib]

and here in lies the problem either you are unaware of the History of Islamic expansionism ,unaware of the Islamic empires or you dont want to beleive it, Do you Honestly beleive that Islam rose from Arabia and spread vast empires across the Globe by peaceful means, That they conquered the Byzantine and Sassanid empires by love, come on you cant be that naive?

look i tolled you, they had their reasons but the world doesn't know about them so it's always the muslims fault. we really didn't just win the hearts of the people but the wars were for other reasons, and even if i tell you about it you won't beleive me. it has happened before, it may as well happen again

 

[Gharib]

now as far as i know some people have said that Muhammed (saws) started quite some wars by so i wan't to know how did this information come to be when he killed everyone that wrote bad about him, i mean it is much more offencive to write about all the people than just him alone.

i have some texts that i will write here but i can't do it now, i don't have a home computeri have gone somewhere, it is a text about what the enemies of Muhammed (saws) has said to ceaser and another one about a christian man.

i also have a great book about the evolution theory written by a turkish islamic scietist, if anyone is interested in the book i will write the name here maybe in a couple of days time.

 

[Steinninn]

thats about the time when prophet Isa (as) will be sent back to earth and he will unite us all, we will all live in one coutry, the middle east pressumably? we will leave every cuntry to move there.

Well, what if all the countries unite into one country. In reality the earth is one country so no one has to move.

 

[England my lionheart]

Well, what if all the countries unite into one country. In reality the earth is one country so no one has to move.

That would be great,as long as its not an Islamic state or country.:no:

 

[kai]

That would be great,as long as its not an Islamic state or country.:no:

well it has to be , doesnt it, Isa is the Islamic prophet who brings in the final battle theres no room for unbeleivers.


According to Islamic tradition, Jesus' descent will be in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi (lit. "the rightly guided one"), known in Islamic eschatology as the redeemer of Islam, against the Antichrist (al-Masīh ad-Dajjāl, "false messiah") and his followers.[22] Jesus will descend at the point of a white arcade in Damascus, dressed in yellow robes - his head anointed. He will then join the Mahdi in his war against the Dajjal. Jesus, considered in Islam as a Muslim, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Jesus will slay the Dajjal, and then everyone from the people of the book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam


Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Evandr]

eselam, how is it that those of your faith place so much value on someone going through the motions of devotion all the while the motivation is not devotion at all but pure terrified fear at what will happen if they don't pretend to be devoted.

Does Allah not require the heart of devotion and not merely the hollow act? Of what value is devotion if it is wrought of fear and whence the fear is removed so goes the devotion?

I wonder how many of the millions of Muslims (especially the young) bow under the rod while all the while their thoughts are of anger toward Islam and the persons of Allah and Mohammad for denying them the right to choose for themselves by the threat of death. Such devotion is quite useless to any deity, Allah included.

If the heart is not Muslim than neither is the person and from what I understand (correct me if I am wrong) all those who do not embrace the Muslim faith are condemned to Hell. If that is so I believe that many of those who appear faithful are also condemned by your own doctrine.

 

[YmirGF]

i also have a great book about the evolution theory written by a turkish islamic scietist, if anyone is interested in the book i will write the name here maybe in a couple of days time.

It wouldn't be called the Atlas of Creation written by Harun Yahya (aka Adnan Oktar a.k.a Adnan Hoca) would it? I have heard from several well informed, and highly respected scientists that it is quite an interesting book. :yes: (said the spider to the fly...)

 

[Gharib]

It wouldn't be called the Atlas of Creation written by Harun Yahya (aka Adnan Oktar a.k.a Adnan Hoca) would it? I have heard from several well informed, and highly respected scientists that it is quite an interesting book. :yes: (said the spider to the fly...)

no it is called "the evolution deceit" and it too is from Harun Yahya, at the very first pages it proves the theory wrong let alone to read the whole thing, i haven't read it all yet but only about 20-30 pages and it is exceptionally good.

 

[Gharib]

eselam, how is it that those of your faith place so much value on someone going through the motions of devotion all the while the motivation is not devotion at all but pure terrified fear at what will happen if they don't pretend to be devoted.

Does Allah not require the heart of devotion and not merely the hollow act? Of what value is devotion if it is wrought of fear and whence the fear is removed so goes the devotion?

I wonder how many of the millions of Muslims (especially the young) bow under the rod while all the while their thoughts are of anger toward Islam and the persons of Allah and Mohammad for denying them the right to choose for themselves by the threat of death. Such devotion is quite useless to any deity, Allah included.

If the heart is not Muslim than neither is the person and from what I understand (correct me if I am wrong) all those who do not embrace the Muslim faith are condemned to Hell. If that is so I believe that many of those who appear faithful are also condemned by your own doctrine.

sorry for saying this but i didn't understand most of yor post, however i did one part. i myself am a young muslim, my family is also muslim, i can't say to you that they are perfect muslims, doing the prayers etc, but no one forced me to choose that path, i did, Allah oppended ny heart to accept as a young teenager so i did,

some people are not meant to be muslims though (hell needs to be filled as well ), the uncle of Muhammed (saws) Ebu Jahl, never beckame a muslim, 10 years before his death a verse was brought down to Muhammed (saws) saying that his uncle will die as a non muslim (will never accept islam) so even though he could hear people speaking about the verse he never said i will prove Muhammed (saws) and Allah wrong, but instead it happened the way Allah fortolled it would.

 

[Evandr]

oh so its alright for christians to kill people to conversion and its not ok for islam, for us too it is a human nature and not that of the religion, if it isn't for us nor is it for you, you have claimed that christians converted people by the sword and islam hasn't, i have claimed that and so does everyother muslim.

I just read this post and, if I may, allow me to interject a thought. There has been a lot of talk, some quite agitated, about the use of the sword to convert people. The whole idea is unjustified and damningly presumptuous to assume that God or Allah or whoever would value devotion that is not completely and absolutely from the heart. It is the character of the person and not how they prostrate themselves that is of real value.
In fine, although someone may coerce another to go through the motions, they simply cannot convert that persom with the sword. I mean no offence but that is so intrinsically obvious that it is either a mindless fool or a conniving madman who would take such a path to propagate their religious beliefs in the name of a loving Deity. Furthermore any such action so completely disregards temporal intelligence in favor of violence and bloodshed that it personifies the definition of evil and the intents of Satan, and it matters not the religion, many different religions have been guilty of it at one time or another. Because I am sure that the vast majority of Islam is comprised of loving, peaceful, and devoted people, I am compelled to believe that it is fear of the temporal powers that be in Islam that prevents the common Islam masses from abandoning such practices.

 

[Gharib]

I just read this post and, if I may, allow me to interject a thought. There has been a lot of talk, some quite agitated, about the use of the sword to convert people. The whole idea is unjustified and damningly presumptuous to assume that God or Allah or whoever would value devotion that is not completely and absolutely from the heart. It is the character of the person and not how they prostrate themselves that is of real value.
In fine, although someone may coerce another to go through the motions, they simply cannot convert that persom with the sword. I mean no offence but that is so intrinsically obvious that it is either a mindless fool or a conniving madman who would take such a path to propagate their religious beliefs in the name of a loving Deity. Furthermore any such action so completely disregards temporal intelligence in favor of violence and bloodshed that it personifies the definition of evil and the intents of Satan, and it matters not the religion, many different religions have been guilty of it at one time or another. Because I am sure that the vast majority of Islam is comprised of loving, peaceful, and devoted people, I am compelled to believe that it is fear of the temporal powers that be in Islam that prevents the common Islam masses from abandoning such practices.

by my guess you are agreing with me right? islam has not coverted people by the sword. thats what i have been telling everyone. thanks for making this post, i have to fruball you

 

[Evandr]

sorry for saying this but i didn't understand most of yor post, however i did one part. i myself am a young muslim, my family is also muslim, i can't say to you that they are perfect muslims, doing the prayers etc, but no one forced me to choose that path, i did, Allah oppended ny heart to accept as a young teenager so i did,

some people are not meant to be muslims though (hell needs to be filled as well ), the uncle of Muhammed (saws) Ebu Jahl, never beckame a muslim, 10 years before his death a verse was brought down to Muhammed (saws) saying that his uncle will die as a non muslim (will never accept islam) so even though he could hear people speaking about the verse he never said i will prove Muhammed (saws) and Allah wrong, but instead it happened the way Allah fortolled it would.

eselam, forgive me for not being clear. I was not questioning your devotion to Islam or that of your family, I am quite sure that you and your family are wonderfully devoted people needing no coersion to live your religion. I was questioning the practice of punishing someone who chooses to leave Islam in favor of another belief system such as Christianity. I have seen documentaries showing a Muslim being executed for choosing to embrace Christianity. How do you explain such violence in the name of your God?

 

[Evandr]

by my guess you are agreing with me right? islam has not coverted people by the sword. thats what i have been telling everyone. thanks for making this post, i have to fruball you

If it is not to convert then why any violence at all? Am I to understand that there is a violent faction of Islam that does not hold the heart of the Islamic people as a whole?

 

[Gharib]

eselam, forgive me for not being clear. I was not questioning your devotion to Islam or that of your family, I am quite sure that you and your family are wonderfully devoted people needing no coersion to live your religion. I was questioning the practice of punishing someone who chooses to leave Islam in favor of another belief system such as Christianity. I have seen documentaries showing a Muslim being executed for choosing to embrace Christianity. How do you explain such violence in the name of your God?

well the people who are muslims, who have revolved around it know that islam is the only true religion (no offence to the other beleifs) so it is in no way allowed for people to change their beleif, thus they are executed in order to keep the good deeds of before (ie. as a muslim) and to leave the rest of the matter to Allah, this is my perspective from my knowledge so i can't say that it is 100% accurate.

 

[Gharib]

If it is not to convert then why any violence at all? Am I to understand that there is a violent faction of Islam that does not hold the heart of the Islamic people as a whole?

that violence has it's reasons i have tolled them but i will tell you again, most non muslims made promises to the muslims and then betrayed them so then they evenged that treachury.

 

[kai]

well the people who are muslims, who have revolved around it know that islam is the only true religion (no offence to the other beleifs) so it is in no way allowed for people to change their beleif, thus they are executed in order to keep the good deeds of before (ie. as a muslim) and to leave the rest of the matter to Allah, this is my perspective from my knowledge so i can't say that it is 100% accurate.

What ? you cant be serious? :no: you mean kill them and let God sort it out?