Muslim founds TV Station to portray muslims in a positive light, then beheads wife?

[England my lionheart]

Islam shows its true, barbaric, sexist face once again!

Islam sexist,never

 

[DarkVamp]

Plus when people are raised as a Muslim its the norm and so yes they don't see the problem

I think that is incorrect, when i was a Muslim. I was highly critical of Islam and it's practices especially in regards to Israel and it's hypocracy. I remember after the 7/7 attacks arguing with my local Mosque leader when he dared to imply it could be understood.

The main problem is that many Muslims are illiterate in regards to the Qu'ran so rely too heavily on Imams. 97% of which [in a recent UK survey] are foreign and so was not even born in UK

 

[DarkVamp]

Let me ask the Muslims here: Do you deny or affirm that the goal of Islam is to dominate all religions?

All religions are here to dominate and ensure their team is the winning one.

 

[Iman]

This terrible incident is truly shameful but to the man who committed it, and not the entire religion. If you took the history of religious figures across religions, you will find priests engaged in pedophilia, preachers engaged in corruption and embezzlement, others engaged in fraud and prostitution. There are many problems at all levels of the faith spectrum. I think that many Muslim bashers found a golden opportunity in this hideous crime by this hideous person whom I hope to get his fair punishment for what he did.
Islam and its holy texts are sacred but they are vibrant, ever evolving and flexible beings that respond to those who read and interpret them in light of modern values. That does not take away from the beauty and grandeur of a religion that came to polish and develop the best of human values.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think that is incorrect, when i was a Muslim. I was highly critical of Islam and it's practices especially in regards to Israel and it's hypocracy. I remember after the 7/7 attacks arguing with my local Mosque leader when he dared to imply it could be understood.

The main problem is that many Muslims are illiterate in regards to the Qu'ran so rely too heavily on Imams. 97% of which [in a recent UK survey] are foreign and so was not even born in UK

I agree with you that it is because of what Imams and clerics preach but i do think that many Muslims would never criticise another or question the Quran.

 

[England my lionheart]

This terrible incident is truly shameful but to the man who committed it, and not the entire religion. If you took the history of religious figures across religions, you will find priests engaged in pedophilia, preachers engaged in corruption and embezzlement, others engaged in fraud and prostitution. There are many problems at all levels of the faith spectrum. I think that many Muslim bashers found a golden opportunity in this hideous crime by this hideous person whom I hope to get his fair punishment for what he did.
Islam and its holy texts are sacred but they are vibrant, ever evolving and flexible beings that respond to those who read and interpret them in light of modern values. That does not take away from the beauty and grandeur of a religion that came to polish and develop the best of human values.

This is true,it was just one Man not a whole religion but i do think that there is a trend for this type of crime,honour killing isn't part of Islam or the Quran however the problem facing Islam is its interpretations of Hadiths etc and the other problem is when Muslims move to the west its a different world

 

[Iman]

This is true,it was just one Man not a whole religion but i do think that there is a trend for this type of crime,honour killing isn't part of Islam or the Quran however the problem facing Islam is its interpretations of Hadiths etc and the other problem is when Muslims move to the west its a different world

Really, I am against that trend that tries to separate the Quran from the Sunna or Hadith. I think they are both rich in profound meanings that need to be harvested through enlightened and careful study. I also reject the notion that most mainstream clerics or Imams in any way encourage abuse of women. Only fringe groups , however, receive the spotlight and the VIP treatment in Western media outlets. That being said, there are rooted cultural notions including sexism that are changing rapidly in many parts of the Muslim world. Women are represented on the highest levels, receive the highest levels of education and have much greater freedoms than outside people assume. I cannot paint the Muslim world with a wide brush because every region has its own cultural values and traditions that differ from another. There are parts of the Arab world for example where wives are the ones abusing and slicing up their husbands, and believe it or not, they get people's sympathy in mainstream media. It all boils down to grave misunderstanding of the basic culture and its various manifestations across the Muslim world and within Muslims who live in the West. Establishing a postive and mutually respectful understanding is possible but needs an open mind from both sides.

 

[England my lionheart]

This from Abu Bakr as i am sure you know
Abu Bakr gathered the public after the death of the Prophet and addressed them thus: “You are transmitting conflicting hadiths that clash with the sayings of the Prophet. The persons to come after you will be in a worse predicament. Transmit no hadiths from God’s messenger. Speak to those who would like you to transmit hadiths in the following way: “Behold! God’s book is with us, abide by what has been made lawful for you therein and avoid what has been prohibited.”
Zahabi, Tezkiratul Huffaz, Bukhari

There are so many Hadiths that are unsound or conflicting and ambiguos that it is this that causes so many problems.

 

[Iman]

This from Abu Bakr as i am sure you know
Abu Bakr gathered the public after the death of the Prophet and addressed them thus: “You are transmitting conflicting hadiths that clash with the sayings of the Prophet. The persons to come after you will be in a worse predicament. Transmit no hadiths from God’s messenger. Speak to those who would like you to transmit hadiths in the following way: “Behold! God’s book is with us, abide by what has been made lawful for you therein and avoid what has been prohibited.”
Zahabi, Tezkiratul Huffaz, Bukhari

There are so many Hadiths that are unsound or conflicting and ambiguos that it is this that causes so many problems.

That's why there is a whole branch of Islamic scholarship dealing only in the sciences of Hadith. Not only do the scholars scrutinize the meanings of Hadith to ensure it does not conflict with the Quran but also examine the chain of references going back to the times of the prophet. A credible reference needed to possess many attributes such as reputable moral behavior, honesty, strict compliance of Islamic regulations in addition to known familiarity with the reference that came before him/her. In addition to such credentials, most valid Hadiths needed to be taken from multiple sources and the ones that come only from one source are weakened. I really don't think that it is wise to discard such a great chunk of the Muslim heritage just becaus some say that it is conflicting. These alleged conflicts are resolved by scholars, otherwise they present valid and viable differences among schools of thought within Islam. In this sense conflict is a healthy disagreement that needs to be discussed respectfully. I need not remind you of the vast differences among people of other faiths. Muslims are all agreed on the great majority of their religion including matters of belief and worship. It is only in certain details that disagreements emerge and attest to the richness and flexibility of Islam. That of course mandates an enlightened approach to differences within the same faith.

 

[Alla Prima]

All religions are here to dominate and ensure their team is the winning one.

Show me the verses of other religious text which state specifically the goal to dominate all other religions.

 

[England my lionheart]

That's why there is a whole branch of Islamic scholarship dealing only in the sciences of Hadith. Not only do the scholars scrutinize the meanings of Hadith to ensure it does not conflict with the Quran but also examine the chain of references going back to the times of the prophet. A credible reference needed to possess many attributes such as reputable moral behavior, honesty, strict compliance of Islamic regulations in addition to known familiarity with the reference that came before him/her. In addition to such credentials, most valid Hadiths needed to be taken from multiple sources and the ones that come only from one source are weakened. I really don't think that it is wise to discard such a great chunk of the Muslim heritage just becaus some say that it is conflicting. These alleged conflicts are resolved by scholars, otherwise they present valid and viable differences among schools of thought within Islam. In this sense conflict is a healthy disagreement that needs to be discussed respectfully. I need not remind you of the vast differences among people of other faiths. Muslims are all agreed on the great majority of their religion including matters of belief and worship. It is only in certain details that disagreements emerge and attest to the richness and flexibility of Islam. That of course mandates an enlightened approach to differences within the same faith.

The problem is who are the real Scholars,we have had people come to this country pertaining to be Scholars or Clerics and preaching nothing but hatred,and the other problem is the administration of Sharia law Hudd especially in Pakistan.
As you say,there are vast differences in other faiths and the ambiguoty of religious writing or translation is the cause of this as ten people can read the same book but relate ten different stories.

 

[Iman]

The problem is who are the real Scholars,we have had people come to this country pertaining to be Scholars or Clerics and preaching nothing but hatred,and the other problem is the administration of Sharia law Hudd especially in Pakistan.
As you say,there are vast differences in other faiths and the ambiguoty of religious writing or translation is the cause of this as ten people can read the same book but relate ten different stories.

There are universities and institutions that follow viable schools of thought within the Muslim faith. As for the clerics that come to the west seeking assylum from their own governments, and then preaching hate and holy war against the very country that helped them, I do not believe they fit in any legitimate line of thinking within Islam. Mainstream Muslims realize and believe that they are bound by the laws of the land they live in. The visa or passport issued to individuals is an agreement of mutual rights and duties and these agreements override any argument to the contrary.
In Islam, there is a long line of established standards for understanding and interpreting holy texts. Sometimes, the interpretation evolves with times and new variables but it takes some time for a relative agreement to become effective within the collective psyche of Muslims.

 

[Alla Prima]

There are universities and institutions that follow viable schools of thought within the Muslim faith. As for the clerics that come to the west seeking assylum from their own governments, and then preaching hate and holy war against the very country that helped them, I do not believe they fit in any legitimate line of thinking within Islam. Mainstream Muslims realize and believe that they are bound by the laws of the land they live in. The visa or passport issued to individuals is an agreement of mutual rights and duties and these agreements override any argument to the contrary.
In Islam, there is a long line of established standards for understanding and interpreting holy texts. Sometimes, the interpretation evolves with times and new variables but it takes some time for a relative agreement to become effective within the collective psyche of Muslims.

Most Muslims watch their Ps and Qs until there's enough of them to dominate the country at which point it's Dar-el-Islam par-tay time. Your comment sounds all reasonable and charming but it ain't the real world and it ain't how Islam does business.

 

[YmirGF]

show me...

Um... Neves... Just pick up a Qur'an and start reading. Pay attention to any and all references to unbelievers or any group that are not talking about followers of Islam. When you look at it from the unbeliever's standpoint, it is a pretty horrid picture. Remember, don't look at it from the Muslim perspective. Try to read it from another's perspective. Try reading it from the perspective of someone who rejects what the book proclaims.

 

[England my lionheart]

There are universities and institutions that follow viable schools of thought within the Muslim faith. As for the clerics that come to the west seeking assylum from their own governments, and then preaching hate and holy war against the very country that helped them, I do not believe they fit in any legitimate line of thinking within Islam. Mainstream Muslims realize and believe that they are bound by the laws of the land they live in. The visa or passport issued to individuals is an agreement of mutual rights and duties and these agreements override any argument to the contrary.
In Islam, there is a long line of established standards for understanding and interpreting holy texts. Sometimes, the interpretation evolves with times and new variables but it takes some time for a relative agreement to become effective within the collective psyche of Muslims.

Well 1400 years is a fair amount of time to come to an agreement,i am surprised at how fractured Islam is,when i first had an interest in finding out about Islam i had the impression that it was one big happy family in total union.
I have met many Muslims through my work and they all say the same thing,"its all in the Quran" and all completely true,however when i started reading the Quran i found that it had IMO plagiarised the books of the Bible.
From a non believers point of view the Quran comes across as a power tool more than a Holy book but i did think it was clever to make Muhammed the last and seal of the prophets.

 

[Iman]

Well 1400 years is a fair amount of time to come to an agreement,i am surprised at how fractured Islam is,when i first had an interest in finding out about Islam i had the impression that it was one big happy family in total union.
I have met many Muslims through my work and they all say the same thing,"its all in the Quran" and all completely true,however when i started reading the Quran i found that it had IMO plagiarised the books of the Bible.
From a non believers point of view the Quran comes across as a power tool more than a Holy book but i did think it was clever to make Muhammed the last and seal of the prophets.

I don't know what your experience is with Muslims, but statistically about 80% of Muslims worldwide follow the Sunna tradition, and they all believe in one God, a Day of Judgment, and all the prophets of God since Adam including Abraham, Mosus, David, and Jesus. That is probably why you feel that parts of the Quran were taken from other holy books, because they presumably came from the same source: God. Whatever legitimate disagreement arises is in non-essential details, and that we are supposed to respect as fellow Muslims. Unfortunately, people are sometimes bad representatives of their faith. They claim to be fighting or arguing on its behalf when it is their own egos that they are worried about. Islam, however, remains the least fragmented Abrahamic religion with the most solid references that remained textually intact throughout history. What does change is the sense in which these texts are interpreted. The Quran is a power tool, not a belligerent one I must add, but it derives its power from its deep holiness and its authoritative tone. It is verbatim the words of God speaking to people directly, not through a third party, and not through narratives as in other holy books.

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't know what your experience is with Muslims, but statistically about 80% of Muslims worldwide follow the Sunna tradition, and they all believe in one God, a Day of Judgment, and all the prophets of God since Adam including Abraham, Mosus, David, and Jesus. That is probably why you feel that parts of the Quran were taken from other holy books, because they presumably came from the same source: God. Whatever legitimate disagreement arises is in non-essential details, and that we are supposed to respect as fellow Muslims. Unfortunately, people are sometimes bad representatives of their faith. They claim to be fighting or arguing on its behalf when it is their own egos that they are worried about. Islam, however, remains the least fragmented Abrahamic religion with the most solid references that remained textually intact throughout history. What does change is the sense in which these texts are interpreted. The Quran is a power tool, not a belligerent one I must add, but it derives its power from its deep holiness and its authoritative tone. It is verbatim the words of God speaking to people directly, not through a third party, and not through narratives as in other holy books.

I have met some really nice people who happen to be Muslims and had the patience to talk to me about their beliefs one even tried to convert me which was interesting.
I feel the problem though lies in the Sunna and false Hadiths and Shi'a and Sunni and especially Sharia law which is quite sexist IMO.

 

[kai]

Um... Neves... Just pick up a Qur'an and start reading. Pay attention to any and all references to unbelievers or any group that are not talking about followers of Islam. When you look at it from the unbeliever's standpoint, it is a pretty horrid picture. Remember, don't look at it from the Muslim perspective. Try to read it from another's perspective. Try reading it from the perspective of someone who rejects what the book proclaims.

In my opinion i think that would be very hard if not impossible for a Muslim to do, after all they have already submitted, i don't think they can look at it from an unbelievers point of view!

 

[Alla Prima]

I don't know what your experience is with Muslims, but statistically about 80% of Muslims worldwide follow the Sunna tradition, and they all believe in one God, a Day of Judgment, and all the prophets of God since Adam including Abraham, Mosus, David, and Jesus. That is probably why you feel that parts of the Quran were taken from other holy books, because they presumably came from the same source: God. Whatever legitimate disagreement arises is in non-essential details, and that we are supposed to respect as fellow Muslims. Unfortunately, people are sometimes bad representatives of their faith. They claim to be fighting or arguing on its behalf when it is their own egos that they are worried about. Islam, however, remains the least fragmented Abrahamic religion with the most solid references that remained textually intact throughout history. What does change is the sense in which these texts are interpreted. The Quran is a power tool, not a belligerent one I must add, but it derives its power from its deep holiness and its authoritative tone. It is verbatim the words of God speaking to people directly, not through a third party, and not through narratives as in other holy books.

Anything that shows itself to be distasteful to western consumption (for instance violent or hateful) is generally classified as un-Islamic or ego oriented. It's the typical Muslim and Apologist refusal to see any wrong in Islam and of course it's propaganda. We know that terrorists are simply acting out Allah's cause. No more acting out of ego than the majority of Muslims are.

 

[Caladan]

In my opinion i think that would be very hard if not impossible for a Muslim to do, after all they have already submitted, i don't think they can look at it from an unbelievers point of view!

You know, I have read the Qur'an from the POV of a believer, and still the objective feel you get from reading this Arabian gem was the trumpet of monotheism and religious reform in Arabia, yes it was also carried to far lands and successfully embraced many other cultures into the concept of the Ummah, but I believe that an objective and well cultured 'believer' who is well read on former scriptures and religious history can openly admit, there there is no need to tag the Qur'an with infallibility.