My first post

[Come2thelight]

@Audie
You don't believe in metaphysical truths? You don't believe we can come to rational and sound conclusions through thoughts and experience?

 

[Audie]

@Audie
You don't believe in metaphysical truths? You don't believe we can come to rational and sound conclusions through thoughts and experience?

Thats not even a good try at changing the
subject.
" Metaphysics" is worse than helpless at
discerning any of the reality about such things
as the nature of atoms or, as mentioned, the
distance to the moon.

Pretense at being able, via word games
orv" revelation" to determine such as the
fundamental nature of the universe is somewhere in the range of pathetic and contemptible.

 

[Come2thelight]

@Audie There were no word games here, it was a sincere question and there's no reason why you are neglecting to answer.

Do you think there is a source to existence?

 

[ppp]

Do you think there is a source to existence?

How could there be? Anything that could be a source to existence would necessarily have to first exist. Dog chasing its tail.

 

[Audie]

@Audie There were no word games here, it was a sincere question and there's no reason why you are neglecting to answer.

Do you think there is a source to existence?

How many times did you refuse to
answer, so far.
Kalam cosmo, by any other name, o
Is a word game.

Your "question" as asked, is meaningless.

 

[sayak83]

@sayak83

Hello and sorry for the late reply. Been busy

How does this god in a picture communicate? And what has it said? I need to know these things. The more information I get the better. So I can be fair with my assessment. So please provide sufficient information.

“You did not answer my question…”

My apologies, what question was that?

The question is this.
Suppose a person understands the Quran well, but rejects it and accepts this other religion (with worship of idols) as true and that religions God as true while the Muslim God as man made. Will his belief send that person to hell?
Maybe you can assume that this religion is polytheistic and God he worships is the king of these polytheistic pantheon. You can also assume that the religion does not tell any of it's worshippers to harm or hurt other people and the commandments are generally good. Though maybe quite different from Islamic praxis ( for example say pork and alcohol are considered divine offerings and partaking them in limited quantities during worship ritual is considered a way to show devotion. Or say fasting is considered a sin as giving unnecessary pain to the body is considered an offense to the Gods who created them as abode of the soul. Etc.)

 

[Come2thelight]

How could there be? Anything that could be a source to existence would necessarily have to first exist. Dog chasing its tail.

What is your definition of exists?

 

[Come2thelight]

How many times did you refuse to
answer, so far.
Kalam cosmo, by any other name, o
Is a word game.

Your "question" as asked, is meaningless.

Just because someone coined it with this name, doesn't mean the argument loses its validity. Can you please tackle where the argument fails?

 

[Come2thelight]

Suppose a person understands the Quran well, but rejects it and accepts this other religion (with worship of idols) as true and that religions God as true while the Muslim God as man made. Will his belief send that person to hell?

I can never say who can go to hell and who won't. I told you this before. And as I said, I need more information about this picture god you are referring to, so that we can see what it has to say.

 

[sayak83]

I can never say who can go to hell and who won't. I told you this before. And as I said, I need more information about this picture god you are referring to, so that we can see what it has to say.

I do not want to know what you say, but what Islam says.
What other info do you need?

 

[ppp]

What is your definition of exists?

Manifests in reality; Occupies a location and has duration.

What is yours?

 

[Come2thelight]

I do not want to know what you say, but what Islam says.
What other info do you need?

A lot.. What does this picture god say?
Did it bring a book?

 

[Come2thelight]

Manifests in reality; Occupies a location and has duration.

What is yours?

Materially present. Which could be the same as yours no?

 

[sayak83]

A lot.. What does this picture god say?
Did it bring a book?

Assume there are a set of scriptures that are revealed to the accomplished practioners through mystical communication or in trances. New insights may come in a continuous fashion to accomplished worshippers in this mode. So the scripture continues to grow.

 

[ppp]

Materially present. Which could be the same as yours no?

Maybe. No. Material is a tricky word. It refers to the matter and energy of our universe as well as fields, forces, and space-time. Again of our universe. That is not necessarily the totality of existence. Anything that has locality and duration in some other framework would also exist.

I will point out again, that whatever would, in your hypothetical, be the cause of existence, would necessarily have to exist. Which sets up an insoluble logical contraction.

Only things that exist can be the cause of other things.

 

[England my lionheart]

@England my lionheart

“In your opinion fair enough but the characteristics of this "one source of existence" seems local to the middle east.”

How do the characteristics seem local to the middle east?

There have been many prophets or messengers but only in the Middle East,none here or europe or Scandinavia Russia etc,considering “we have sent a messenger to all nations”.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Anyone who needs to seek forgiveness has fallen short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:23. 'For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;'.

Can you not see that this must also include Muhammad?

What about Job and other righteous people?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

@Redemptionsong why are you using the Bible like it is a reliable source of information? Why do you believe the Bible is the word of God to begin with?

Do you consider reliance on any scripture to be idolatry? After all, we pray to God, not books.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I am not manifest to everyone, being veiled by My divine Yogmaya energy. Hence, those without knowledge do not know that I am without birth and changeless. Bhagavad Gita 7:25

How is this not the Creator?

The Creator or Creators are just Creators. If a God didn’t create anything, They are not Creators but still Gods.

 

[Audie]

Just because someone coined it with this name, doesn't mean the argument loses its validity. Can you please tackle where the argument fails?

Even tho i specially said. " by other name"
you try for a point with " just because"
as if i had implied such.
Shoddy and dishonest.

At least you finally admitted that " kalam cosmo" is your word game. It was like pulling teeth.

As if words and " metaphysics" could ever
even, AS NOTED. even determine the nature of
the moon. The koran has some amusingly quaint and childish notions about sushi things,
a terrif endorsement of revelations for. " truth ".

If you cant figure out the core prob with
" kalam", well that figures.

Ideologies tend to close minds to anything outside of confirmation.