My God Why have you forsaken me

[waitasec]

Still assuming to much.

That you insult God....scripture...whatever....
doesn't mean I feel anything about it.

sure you do...you're responding.

how can i insult something i don't believe exists...?
you're the one who's assuming.

 

[Thief]

sure you do...you're responding.

how can i insult something i don't believe exists...?
you're the one who's assuming.

No I don't....responding doesn't assume emotion.

And at this point, your last statement shows all cause to disregard any postings you have made in this thread.

Your soapbox is apathy?...lack of faith?
and your credibility is bolstered by such?

The topic will continue to elude you.

 

[waitasec]

No I don't....responding doesn't assume emotion.

human reaction in regards to faith is emotional...what are you a robot?

And at this point, your last statement shows all cause to disregard any postings you have made in this thread.

nothing new there

Your soapbox is apathy?...lack of faith?
and your credibility is bolstered by such?

actually my opinion about this bible is dependent on the fact that everything about it is susceptible to nothing other than subjective understanding.
i just have to ask, why is it that those who believe the attributes the bible claims as god's, are those that believe their opinion is the right opinion, when it's just an opinion

The topic will continue to elude you.

whatever you say

 

[idav]

mark 15:25
25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. 26 The written notice of the charge against him read: THE KING OF THE JEWS.

27 They crucified two rebels with him, one on his right and one on his left. [28] [a] 29 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 come down from the cross and save yourself!” 31 In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! 32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus

33 At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

matthew 27:32
As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33 They came to a place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”). 34 There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. 35 When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
38 Two rebels were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.


45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[d]
47 When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He’s calling Elijah.”

48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49 The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him.”

50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

luke 23:26
As the soldiers led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus. 27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then
“‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!”’

31 For if people do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”

32 Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed. 33 When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. 34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[c] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

36 The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar 37 and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”

38 There was a written notice above him, which read: THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.

john 19:16
So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.
19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS. 20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek. 21 The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”

22 Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

23 When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.

24 “Let’s not tear it,” they said to one another. “Let’s decide by lot who will get it.”...

25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

28 Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

what time did they begin to crucify jesus?

mark 15:25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him.

matthew 27:45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land.
and luke 23:44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon
are in step with one another but not in cahoots with mark.
john

did both criminals heaped insults at jesus
mark 15:32 :yes:
matthew 27:44 :yes:
luke 23:39-41 :no:
john

one one hand, we see in mark and matthew's account, jesus not saying a word..both criminals heap insults
yells "why have you forsaken me?" and dies.

otoh, we got luke's account where jesus tells one of the criminals, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


mark 15:34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

luke 23:45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.

john 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

so why ask god why he was forsaken knowing he will be in paradise?
irreconcilable...
instead in the luke account we have jesus say, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” quite a contrast.

in john jesus has a discourse with his mom that isn't even mentioned in the other 3 gospels. and says...“It is finished.”


i'm guessing who ever put the NT gospels together needed a better editor...
but yet god's word is infallible, right? :no:

I think this is a good post.

Although you could just put all those parts of the story and just say everyone else forgot to mention something.

When reading some of the books they give the impression of being forsaken while others do not. Very interesting.

 

[waitasec]

I think this is a good post.

Although you could just put all those parts of the story and just say everyone else forgot to mention something.

When reading some of the books they give the impression of being forsaken while others do not. Very interesting.

you know sometimes i feel i need to spell it out...and it's easier for me to go back to a long winded post as a back up... to help me focus... i've got ADD...

 

[Heathen Hammer]

So you did all this reading and typing...
and the result was to hurl insult to the composition of the new testament and dismiss it.

No wonder you post as you do.

You choose to attack the poster rather than concede to obvious evidence that your book is flawed, just from those examples.

 

[Orias]

A poor round about....

I would be willing to say dogma can be irrational....but not faith.
would YOU then be willing to confess your irrational pursuit?

You can't undo faith.
Dogma...sure...but not faith.

I would of just said.

"We all expect to wake up in the morning".

Most of us doubt if we even will.

 

[Thief]

You choose to attack the poster rather than concede to obvious evidence that your book is flawed, just from those examples.

Testimony is expected to be different from different viewpoints.

I don't expect the gospels to be exact copies of each other.
It is unreasonable to expect they would be.

If they were exactly the same...only one testimony would be offered.

Have your expectations become your litmus test?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It's actually unreasonable, to expect them not to be.

This is thee most important message necessary, in your view, to Mankind. And the discrepancies occur, in this case at one of the most pivotal moments in the story. And, a moment which was the most witnessed [by people closest to Jesus, in fact], and to top that off, a moment giving those witnesses the most horror and therefore one which would be most indelible in their minds. Yet the crucifixion contains scads of errors across the witnesses.

Multiple testimonies, multiple problems.

No fault of mine.

 

[waitasec]

Testimony is expected to be different from different viewpoints.

I don't expect the gospels to be exact copies of each other.
It is unreasonable to expect they would be.

If they were exactly the same...only one testimony would be offered.

Have your expectations become your litmus test?

then you concede to the idea that there is no standard for which all will be judged by...

to each his own.

 

[Thief]

then you concede to the idea that there is no standard for which all will be judged by...

to each his own.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Your mind and heart....dealt to you, as you do unto others.

 

[Daviso452]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Your mind and heart....dealt to you, as you do unto others.

Actually, the quote is "consider others as yourself." But I see how you could confuse it. Someone must have just learned about it and re-worded it into the "do unto others" thing. Whoever did made the saying very famous. I just wish he had cited his source

 

[Orias]

I like "Do unto others as they do unto you".

It applies more often, more specifically to the dodgy type.

 

[waitasec]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Your mind and heart....dealt to you, as you do unto others.

"do unto others..." is a judgment we have among ourselves...

but in light of what you said:

only one testimony would be offered.

the testimony is still something that is understood subjectively and it's up to the individual to interpret what ever comes their way..
which is why i say
there is no higher standard which all will be judged by

 

[Orias]

there is no standard for which all will be judged by...

Except for the human mind, as frugal as it is.

 

[waitasec]

Except for the human mind, as frugal as it is.

good point.
what i should have said, and i'll edited it after this is

there is no higher standard which all will be judged by

better...?


and yes the human mind can be a frugal thing

 

[Thief]

"do unto others..." is a judgment we have among ourselves...

but in light of what you said:

the testimony is still something that is understood subjectively and it's up to the individual to interpret what ever comes their way..
which is why i say
there is no higher standard which all will be judged by

So are you in control?
From another thread...I quote myself...

Forgiveness (and mercy) are disciplines.
And you don't bestow such grace unto those not worthy.

Punishment?....more like, leave you wherever you fell.

Try putting yourself in the picture.
You fall down...your last breath escapes you....the angels appear.
If they like what they see, when you stand up...fine and good.
If not...
They will move away and leave you.
The devil behind you will laugh.

Letting everyone in makes heaven the same as earth....nothing more.
Peace on earth?...good will toward men?

We hardly have such things unto each other.

How many then, are worthy to walk among angels?

Their choice, is it not?

 

[look3467]

How strange....

I agree. Surely not the response I expected. I mean my view does no one any harm.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

I agree. Surely not the response I expected. I mean my view does no one any harm.

Blessings, AJ

did i say it did?
views don't harm...imposing them do.

see a difference?

 

[waitasec]

So are you in control?
From another thread...I quote myself...

Forgiveness (and mercy) are disciplines.
And you don't bestow such grace unto those not worthy.

Punishment?....more like, leave you wherever you fell.

Try putting yourself in the picture.
You fall down...your last breath escapes you....the angels appear.
If they like what they see, when you stand up...fine and good.
If not...
They will move away and leave you.
The devil behind you will laugh.

Letting everyone in makes heaven the same as earth....nothing more.
Peace on earth?...good will toward men?

We hardly have such things unto each other.

How many then, are worthy to walk among angels?

Their choice, is it not?

how can i put myself in YOUR picture?
it's impossible, only you can do that for yourself.

i have my own picture to intepret.