My God Why have you forsaken me

[Thief]

how can i put myself in YOUR picture?
it's impossible, only you can do that for yourself.

i have my own picture to intepret.

'My' picture is not that complicated.

And if you can't...or won't...see yourself in another perspective....

 

[waitasec]

'My' picture is not that complicated.

right, make it easy for yourself.

And if you can't...or won't...see yourself in another perspective....

i can ask the same of you, but i don't...that's the difference between you and i.

 

[Thief]

right, make it easy for yourself.



i can ask the same of you, but i don't...that's the difference between you and i.

While applying the topic notion....
I am not forsaken and you are?

And the condition of forsaken is what?...brought on by what?

 

[waitasec]

While applying the topic notion....
I am not forsaken and you are?

And the condition of forsaken is what?...brought on by what?

lets get this straight...
just because there are opposing views doesn't forsake anyone.
and if one relies on faith, which needs no proving, it's no suprise they feel forsaken since they are expected to be placated....which is the nature of faith...to be pacified, appeased and humored.

 

[Daviso452]

So are you in control?
From another thread...I quote myself...

Forgiveness (and mercy) are disciplines.
And you don't bestow such grace unto those not worthy.

Punishment?....more like, leave you wherever you fell.

Try putting yourself in the picture.
You fall down...your last breath escapes you....the angels appear.
If they like what they see, when you stand up...fine and good.
If not...
They will move away and leave you.
The devil behind you will laugh.

Letting everyone in makes heaven the same as earth....nothing more.
Peace on earth?...good will toward men?

We hardly have such things unto each other.

How many then, are worthy to walk among angels?

Their choice, is it not?

We understand what you believe. We just see no reason believe what you say is true. You say those who don't believe are just dead, but those who do ascend. But you have no evidence to support this, only faith. Faith is without evidence or logic, only reasons based on a person's thoughts, emotions, and experiences, but with no one to verify them.

You are not infallible. You are not perfect. Please stop presenting what you believe on a debate forum without reasoning that is verified and/or applies to more than just yourself. What you may consider reasonable to yourself may be considered laughable by others, and the difference is that they have evidence to support their side while you don't.

I understand it is just what you believe. But an argument without evidence is just a stupid claim that gets us no where.

 

[Thief]

We understand what you believe. We just see no reason believe what you say is true. You say those who don't believe are just dead, but those who do ascend. But you have no evidence to support this, only faith. Faith is without evidence or logic, only reasons based on a person's thoughts, emotions, and experiences, but with no one to verify them.

You are not infallible. You are not perfect. Please stop presenting what you believe on a debate forum without reasoning that is verified and/or applies to more than just yourself. What you may consider reasonable to yourself may be considered laughable by others, and the difference is that they have evidence to support their side while you don't.

I understand it is just what you believe. But an argument without evidence is just a stupid claim that gets us no where.

You cannot support your lack of faith.
You have no evidence.

Logic is not what most people think it is.
Most assume it is much like common sense...it is not.

Reason is not without heart.

Can you prove you have one?

 

[Thief]

lets get this straight...
just because there are opposing views doesn't forsake anyone.
and if one relies on faith, which needs no proving, it's no suprise they feel forsaken since they are expected to be placated....which is the nature of faith...to be pacified, appeased and humored.

I have described expectation.

If you don't believe in life after death I expect your spirit will follow the body into the grave.

If you believe in life after death....and 6billion will die within my life time...
Then we either step into a scheme of things with hierarchy in place...
or we step into chaos.

If you are not allowed to follow...then you are forsaken.

 

[waitasec]

I have described expectation.

If you don't believe in life after death I expect your spirit will follow the body into the grave.

If you believe in life after death....and 6billion will die within my life time...
Then we either step into a scheme of things with hierarchy in place...
or we step into chaos.

If you are not allowed to follow...then you are forsaken.

you have no place to expect anything about me as far as i am concerned.
speak for yourself.

 

[look3467]

did i say it did?
views don't harm...imposing them do.

see a difference?

No, but you speak as if it does.

Now for as far as "imposing".

Two ways to look at it:
1. That my beliefs are so in-normally great that they impose
or
2. That I am requiring you to accept my beliefs as yours also.

I believe you making number 2 your reference.

I've read ahead before making this response to you and again the word "forsaken" is being debated.

Well. my view is that there is only one individual that God has forsaken, and I gave the reasons why in past posts.

As for you and I and everybody else regardless whether they believe or not, are not forsaken in the least bit.

The price/costs have already being paid in full for our souls. Our souls don't belong to Us but to God.

Now, what we do in this world does in no way affect that condition, but, fear God that while we're here He might not take His hand of protection away from us for our misdeeds. because if He does, there will be hell to pay.

In order to really understand what the words "hell to pay" means, one must know what it means to be "forsaken".

The ones who realize the gravity of it know what it means when God allows the world to correct us.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Thief]

you have no place to expect anything about me as far as i am concerned.
speak for yourself.

Using the word....'you'...should be expected.
I am conversing with 'you'.

But of course my speech is not limited to me or 'you'.

My belief...my method....includes all.
Naysayers included.

That naysayers say....'nay'....is expected.

 

[waitasec]

No, but you speak as if it does.
Now for as far as "imposing".

Two ways to look at it:
1. That my beliefs are so in-normally great that they impose
or
2. That I am requiring you to accept my beliefs as yours also.

I believe you making number 2 your reference.

i don't know what it is you do...outside of the forum.
all i can judge are the words you choose to use to describe your point of view...

I first knew Christ and learned all about Him. I have arrived at a point of understanding that it matters not what religion one was subjected to, but that Christ died for all.

The question is, if we, believer or unbeliever exercise the two greatest Commandments, from the heart, God sees it.

If to, that being the case, then Muslims, Christians, Jews can be one with another under those two Commandments.

The problem with religion is in understanding. Close minded religious believers segregate themselves from other close minded religious believers, thus one or the other thinking themselves to be the only ones blessed to go to heaven and the others.......well to hell.

I am perfectly comfortable with all religious beliefs, non believers.

Christ paid the price for our redemption bar none.

Blessings, AJ

i'll say it one more time...

what i highlighted in red is null and void

if i find you condemning birth control; condoms the pill...
euthanasia, or same sex marriages...i have no choice but to challenge why you would impose your morality over others just because you believe yours is superior...

:tsk:

 

[waitasec]

Using the word....'you'...should be expected.
I am conversing with 'you'.

But of course my speech is not limited to me or 'you'.

My belief...my method....includes all.
Naysayers included.

That naysayers say....'nay'....is expected.

only you are going to experience your last breathe
that experience is not mine...
so then why say things that imply my last breath is something you are able to experience, when the experience is mine and mine alone
:tsk:

 

[Daviso452]

You cannot support your lack of faith.
You have no evidence.

Logic is not what most people think it is.
Most assume it is much like common sense...it is not.

Reason is not without heart.

Can you prove you have one?

Support requires evidence, which is contrary to faith. The statement is an oxymoron.

Reason with heart creates bias. I tend to hope for unbiased reasoning.

A heart? Yes, yes I can.

 

[look3467]

what i highlighted in red is null and void>>> waitasec

:canoe::canoe::canoe::canoe::canoe::canoe:

Well friend, I've run my time out on this one.
Yea nor nay, the rower fruitlessly rows nowhere.

Be it as it will.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Daviso452]

The point Waitasec is trying to make is that you say it is just what you believe, but you are attempting to push it onto others. That is what she has a problem with. Spreading it to anyone, stating it as fact, and then attempting to make them believe, is unacceptable, if I understand correctly

 

[waitasec]

The point Waitasec is trying to make is that you say it is just what you believe, but you are attempting to push it onto others. That is what she has a problem with. Spreading it to anyone, stating it as fact, and then attempting to make them believe, is unacceptable, if I understand correctly

you do

but alas some don't...

 

[look3467]

The point Waitasec is trying to make is that you say it is just what you believe, but you are attempting to push it onto others. That is what she has a problem with. Spreading it to anyone, stating it as fact, and then attempting to make them believe, is unacceptable, if I understand correctly

The point is accepting that I do have a belief which includes all others.
My belief is as his or her beliefs are, I accept as theirs and honor them.

I can work with anybody's beliefs because of my interpretation of my beliefs, but they can not work with me and my beliefs as stated.

You see, my beliefs are all inclusive of which renders hope to all, while theirs, in many cases, is terminal subject only to this life.

I mean, no one has to believe anything I say, but I do want to present an alternative to theirs in which I believe renders hope beyond this life.

That sound reasonable to you?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Thief]

The point Waitasec is trying to make is that you say it is just what you believe, but you are attempting to push it onto others. That is what she has a problem with. Spreading it to anyone, stating it as fact, and then attempting to make them believe, is unacceptable, if I understand correctly

This is where most participants error.

What I see as true...does not exclude you.

What I believe as fact...you can say 'nay' if you want to.

Perhaps your scenario of a last breath is different?
Would you then stand forsaken?

 

[Daviso452]

This is where most participants error.

What I see as true...does not exclude you.

What I believe as fact...you can say 'nay' if you want to.

Perhaps your scenario of a last breath is different?
Would you then stand forsaken?

Ask her, not me.

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

Why did people think Jesus was calling on Elijah when he said My God Why you Forsaken me? What did Jesus really say and why would people have expected Elijah? Perhaps Jesus was also expecting Elijah but felt forsaken. Jesus wouldn't have been forsaken by God, I would have figured that Jesus could have saved himself at any time. In what way was Jesus forsaken?

Jesus willingly gave his life for us. God, the Father, had to step away in order for Christ's sacrifice to be complete.