My God Why have you forsaken me

[look3467]

well instead of looking for ways that separate you from them, as in why you would challenge their personal experience, why don't you edify their spirit?>>>waitasec

Separate? Well, it seems to me your combative attitude is wanting to "separate" you from me?

Edify? Yes, by presenting the works of God as all inclusive, bar none, inclusion of all souls into His kingdom.

Would that not want an unbeliever become somewhat convinced of the existence of God?

If Jesus came not to condemn, why should I?

are you saying that a person who has a different born again experience than yours is evil?

I'm not saying that at all, especially not wanting to use such a harsh word as evil.
For you to perceive that notion..... I have to wonder about your quote "yes i do know what it means..."

Being born again means being born of a new spirit, a spirit not of this world but of God while yet in the world.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

From my point of view, as I've come to understand it, God so loved His creation that He gave His only (singular) son, not sons (Plural) for the reconciling of it.

That means none excluded regardless!

\Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

Separate? Well, it seems to me your combative attitude is wanting to "separate" you from me?

i'm not a believer so naturally i am separate from you. ...i'm pointing out how you are deliberately trying to separte yourself from a fellow believer :tsk:

Edify? Yes, by presenting the works of God as all inclusive, bar none, inclusion of all souls into His kingdom.

according to YOUR interpretation.

Would that not want an unbeliever become somewhat convinced of the existence of God?

encouragement goes a long way while disunity will ultimately

If Jesus came not to condemn, why should I?

but you have by your challenge based on your understanding

I'm not saying that at all, especially not wanting to use such a harsh word as evil.
For you to perceive that notion..... I have to wonder about your quote "yes i do know what it means..."

Being born again means being born of a new spirit, a spirit not of this world but of God while yet in the world.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

From my point of view, as I've come to understand it, God so loved His creation that He gave His only (singular) son, not sons (Plural) for the reconciling of it.

That means none excluded regardless!

\Blessings, AJ

your choice of this scripture is suspect.

I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

 

[muhammad_isa]

From my point of view, as I've come to understand it, God so loved His creation that He gave His only (singular) son, not sons (Plural) for the reconciling of it.

What's that got to do with being "born again" ?
Jesus (peace be with him), isn't reported to have said that in the synoptic gospels..

So, you must be getting it from the gospel of John. Incidentally, this gospel is of anonymous authorship, so why it's called John, I don't know

"John presents a "higher" Christology than the synoptics, meaning that he describes Jesus as the incarnation of the divine Logos through whom all things were made, as the object of veneration, and more explicitly as God incarnate. Only in John does Jesus talk at length about himself and his divine role, often shared with the disciples only."
>> Gospel of John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <<

It's very dangerous to rely on the "fourth gospel", and don't forget that the Bible canon was chosen by the 'Christian elite' who were loyal to the Roman Empire.

 

[look3467]

i'm not a believer>>>waitasec

Thus I judge ye not!

I do however present an alternative to your non belief, and that is your inclusion based on the love of God has for you.

Now2, let's look at the other side, mainly, y7our thoughts.
By your postings challenging my beliefs, would seem to want to say that your beliefs are more correct than mine and thus an alternative.

The only problem I see with them is that of hope, no hope for the hereafter.

Where as my beliefs not only include hope for the hereafter but also all humanity.

To anyone wondering, my views would offer a ray of hope, even if, my views would be a total myth.

So it comes down to where neither you nor I can prove the truth of our views.

Faith then is the only medium by which one or the other will find it's own truth.

If I was to sacrifice one over the other, I'd prefer to go with the one that offers hope and leave the other.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

What's that got to do with being "born again" ?>>>muhammad_isa

Well, according to the biblical account of Genesis mankind as a whole was "lost" in the creative process.

The only way to recover the loss is to have the same be born again, this time not of the same spirit of the first Adam but of the second Adam.

To understand this, one need be familiar with the works of God in behalf of of mankind.

Otherwise, mankinds interpretation of heaven and hell come into the mix and thereby, divisions occur.

So, you must be getting it from the gospel of John. Incidentally, this gospel is of anonymous authorship, so why it's called John, I don't know

Taking the bible as a whole, the old with the new, and gaining understanding in the works of God in all of it, one will see the harmony between all the books of the bible.

Up and until Jesus, the old was the death of us all, and after Jesus, the life of us all.

Life by Jesus is not of the physical as it was by the first Adam, but life in the spirit is life everlasting, as Jesus is the second Adam, born of God and not of the first Adam.

That has to be understood if one is to have understanding.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Check out my thread on "What about the seven day creation story for an explanation of how the bible as a whole is embedded in the whole of the bible.
Including all of the new testament books.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

Thus I judge ye not!

I do however present an alternative to your non belief, and that is your inclusion based on the love of God has for you.

you just ducked the entire post...
excellent.

 

[look3467]

you just ducked the entire post...
excellent.

Nah, you just can' handle God loving you unconditionaly!

Blessings,AJ

 

[waitasec]

Nah, you just can' handle God loving you unconditionaly!

Blessings,AJ

ultimatums are conditions

 

[look3467]

ultimatums are conditions

No! Absolutely not! Your freedom to choose is a God given gift without penalty.
Hence: uncondtional love?

You do understand the meaning of the word unconditional right?

The right to choose and unconditional love are both free gifts granted us by God equaling life everlasting.
Can you see that?

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

No! Absolutely not! Your freedom to choose is a God given gift without penalty.
Hence: uncondtional love?

You do understand the meaning of the word unconditional right?

The right to choose and unconditional love are both free gifts granted us by God equaling life everlasting.
Can you see that?

Blessings, AJ

and the consequences of not choosing are:
being labeled as evil...vile and contemptuous by the believers no less

if a gift is offered one has the choice to reject it..if it is rejected, then what?
it is a condition of belief..the condition...'whosoever believes' is a condition...you do know what a condition means, don't you?
:sarcastic

 

[look3467]

and the consequences of not choosing are:
being labeled as evil...vile and contemptuous by the believers no less


if a gift is offered one has the choice to reject it..if it is rejected, then what?
it is a condition of belief..the condition...'whosoever believes' is a condition...you do know what a condition means, don't you?
:sarcastic

Belivers, God bless them for many are well intentioned as I was once.
Of course, given not the right information are subject to prejudices, innocently, yet not left off the hook, becasuse true belivers are twice accountable for thier behavior and attitude, verses the unbelievers who are not.

Please do not lump all believers under the same umbrella of those who claim to beu
believers and promote hate and segregation for thier own personal gains

Evil exists in belivers as well as with unbelivers alike.

If you choose not believe, you fall under God' unconditional love for the salvation of your soul.
As far as blessings, not being a member of His heavenly kingdom, are limited, yet not forsaken.

I'll back to you on "condition".

It's hard to post using my cell phone.
When I get to my computor I will answer you.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

I'm back to my desk top.

it is a condition of belief..the condition...'whosoever believes' is a condition...you do know what a condition means, don't you?>>>waitasec

Our view of God is conditional, either we want to or not.
God's view of us is unconditional whether we like it or not.

If you could come to understand what is written in the bible as a whole about God you would come to the same conclusion.

Because mankind's views have been injected into the truth and turned into a falsehood, God's mercy supersedes all that.

Now, condition has to do with whether or not we receive blessings beyond that which we normally wouldn't.

Example is, if you became a member of a club, you would be blessed by their benefits verses a none member.

But, it is conditional on our behavior based on the clubs rules and regulations.

As for God's unconditional love, there are no requirements other than accepting His love.....if you wish.

By accepting His love one receives one,two or more of the following: Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

and : Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

There are some unbelievers that posses some of these traits without being labeled or called believers. These folks are a testimony to God's granting them these traits as natural virtues in order to contrast those believers who have fallen away to put them to shame.

You see, God is involved in all our affairs, simply because He loves us all.

I have six children and I love them all, even though some give me a harder time than others. Love them just the same.

Some fall in my favor easily because of their nature and the others, well, they have to work at it.

Such is our Loving Father God towards us.

I happen to be raised in a loving, religious environment and have gone through many different trial situations questioning, analyzing, agonizing, and seeking for truth of which was hard in finding through normal church affiliations.

The churches do have the basic truth of which is the foundation to build upon.
But it becomes a personal responsibility to question, seek and learn truth, otherwise, we remain on shallow ground ans easily swayed to and fro.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

I'm back to my desk top.



Our view of God is conditional, either we want to or not.
God's view of us is unconditional whether we like it or not.

he placed a condition. believe or else...not just a condition but an ultimatum a manipulation to control the outcome of the condition offered.
like it or not....
unless you are willing to concede your god is a god of double standards...

and the notion that believers are capable of understanding gods view is absolutely ridiculous and arrogant.

 

[look3467]

he placed a condition. believe or else...not just a condition but an ultimatum a manipulation to control the outcome of the condition offered.
like it or not....waitasec

"He" is not who placed the condition....mankind did by introducing heaven or hell altimatum.

Here is what Jesus said: Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Mankind is who is making the judgments of which you have resentments of. I don't blame you, but there is an explanation as I have been giving you.

By rejecting, one is left to fend for themselves on what the world has to offer, while accepting, one has the inner dwellings of God's spirit to lead and guide, to comfort and heal, and to give hope where there was no hope.

God is not ignorant of anything we can imagine, for after all, how complicated is this universe way past our own understanding?

Gotta give God more credit than what some folks think.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

"He" is not who placed the condition....mankind did by introducing heaven or hell altimatum.

i agree.

Here is what Jesus said: Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Mankind is who is making the judgments of which you have resentments of. I don't blame you, but there is an explanation as I have been giving you.

cool, then why question/challenge someone's born again experience?

By rejecting, one is left to fend for themselves on what the world has to offer, while accepting, one has the inner dwellings of God's spirit to lead and guide, to comfort and heal, and to give hope where there was no hope.

we're left to fend for ourselves anyway...

God is not ignorant of anything we can imagine, for after all, how complicated is this universe way past our own understanding?

i don't think, if there is a god, he cares what we imagine.

Gotta give God more credit than what some folks think.

Blessings, AJ

i do that's why i don't pretend to know anything about god...
or use my incomplete knowledge to justify my judgment of others

 

[look3467]

Quote:
Here is what Jesus said: Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Mankind is who is making the judgments of which you have resentments of. I don't blame you, but there is an explanation as I have been giving you.
cool, then why question/challenge someone's born again experience?>>>waitasec

Born again believers express their experiences willingly, as it is one of the fundamental traits of a believer.

Read: Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

As I read some of his posts, I wondered about somethings said that were questionable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467

From my point of view, as I've come to understand it, God so loved His creation that He gave His only (singular) son, not sons (Plural) for the reconciling of it.

What's that got to do with being "born again" ?
Jesus (peace be with him), isn't reported to have said that in the synoptic gospels..

Born again has everything to do with the second man Adam, for in Him there is life, and life is expressed in the experience of rebirth.

I question not his experience so much as his understanding of what that experience means.

You see, allot of Christians lead people to make such decisions in church and than after that, don't follow up to help the individual gain the right understanding of it.

The apostles had to deal with such issues because the people then were so used to the traditional views that they not only wanted the new view but also wanted to hold on the the old views as well. Hence the Pauline letters.

You will read that the non Jews were more apt to believe in Jesus than the Jews because their minds were not set on traditional Mosaic values.

we're left to fend for ourselves anyway...>>>waitasec

Yes, true as far as our independence, but as for our spiritual dependance, God is an ever present comfort in our times of need and in whom one can depend on not to fail us.

i don't think, if there is a god, he cares what we imagine.

The context of my statement meant is that God is not naive to where we think He may not know what we are thinking.

Ref: Psa 69:5 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

In other words, nothing is new with God that He can not forgive.

i do that's why i don't pretend to know anything about god...
or use my incomplete knowledge to justify my judgment of others

I admire your honesty. The bible states that it is better for one to be either hot or cold and not pretending.

Pretenders are harder to win over because of their instability, where as with the hot or cold, an alternative is always an option.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

opcorn:

Have you tried lemon pepper sprinkled over your popcorn?

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

Born again believers express their experiences willingly, as it is one of the fundamental traits of a believer.

Read: Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

As I read some of his posts, I wondered about somethings said that were questionable.

so what?

Born again has everything to do with the second man Adam, for in Him there is life, and life is expressed in the experience of rebirth.

I question not his experience so much as his understanding of what that experience means.

so what?

You see, allot of Christians lead people to make such decisions in church and than after that, don't follow up to help the individual gain the right understanding of it.

The apostles had to deal with such issues because the people then were so used to the traditional views that they not only wanted the new view but also wanted to hold on the the old views as well. Hence the Pauline letters.

You will read that the non Jews were more apt to believe in Jesus than the Jews because their minds were not set on traditional Mosaic values.

so what?

are you insinuating you are right and he is wrong?
how silly.

 

[look3467]

so what?

May not have meaning to you but it does to me.

are you insinuating you are right and he is wrong?
how silly.

If we are of the same beliefs on the born again experience, meaning he and I, then we should be in tandem.
I believe perhaps a little more information on his part would be helpful, hence my questioning.

I come from a staunch born again believing views and have witnessed changes in people's lives due to it.

It is not like I don't know enough to discern a person's understanding what it really means.

"A new born babe in Christ" is a term discribing a newly reborn believer in their infancy of the gospel of Christ, verses a seasoned, tried and true believer grown in spiritual maturity.

A lack of understanding perhaps?

When we first learned to drive a car, we could drive, no doubt about it.
But not necessarily know all the rules of the road when encountering storms, snow, heavy traffic and types of roads.

Have you driven in snow before? (Experienced it)Why should I question you if you already know how to drive?
Silly of me to ask , you think?

Blessings, AJ