My son has joined islam

[MysticSang'ha]

Kathryn, read the OP again. He said he has denied his son the privilege of seeing his brother and sister "until he gets out of this religion." He did not divulge the information about the mental instability until later.

He has also taken cheap shots at Islam throughout the whole thread despite the respectful responses of RF Muslims.

I contend it is the the fact that Shredmeister doesn't like Islam and is using his troubled relationship with his son to rail against it.

 

[McBell]

I contend it is the the fact that Shredmeister doesn't like Islam and is using his troubled relationship with his son to rail against it.

Based on Shredmeisters posts in this thread, I have to agree.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

ShredMesiter have you read my response ? http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2115653-post97.html

Also, I wanted to ask wether your son changed after his conversion? Is he still making threats at school?
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...so, is this teaching directly from the Quran?

 

[Wissenssteigung]

I'm not sure if this was asked or not but, to Shredmeister, you said in the first post he claimed to be atheistic for 7-8 months. It seems odd though because if he wants to rebel against family, then atheism would lead to a bigger rebellion because Islam at least is an Abrahamic faith like Christianity is. Point is, with Islam, he's still acknowledging theism but with atheism it'd be a bigger rebellion because it involves a more distant belief. I can only then imagine that him going to Islam is yet another attempt at rebelling but...

If you dislike Islam this much and display that anger to your son, it's going to drive him away regardless if he believes in it. Makes sense then that he learns more of just what it is, so even if he isn't a strong believer in it, your aggression to him makes him angry enough to stick up for it. When you then punish him in other ways, such as denying visits, he resorts to what he may like now.

I think it'd be useful to see if he practices Islam when he thinks nobody is watching, such as praying in the morning when he thinks all others are asleep or away. If so, then he does believe in it and your aggression causes more rebel.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Based on Shredmeisters posts in this thread, I have to agree.

I add my voice to yours

 

[Muffled]

Sadly, I have done all the things you've mentioned with him. I have been there every step of the way and he has told me as much. His behavior is puzzling to me for that very reason.

Yes, you are correct: I love my son. However, his utter disdain for his father's concern is maddening. He also runs roughshod on his mother doing as he pleases despite her concerns. As I mentioned, we are no longer together and have not been for some time. She has confided in me that she has given up on trying to get him to be honest. It is now her intention to leave the state as soon as he goes off to college.

That's another issue. He had been working diligently toward a degree in architecture and had applied at one of the country's premier schools for architecture. Now he is saying he may take "a year or so off" before he goes to college. In most(not ALL, before anyone cites specific examples to the contrary)cases, these students do NOT go on to complete their studies. A good number of individuals NEVER go to college at all.

Sorry. I veered off-topic.

Anyway, I do not want to permanently cut him off from his family, but I gave him a choice. If he is STUPID enough to choose a religion over his family, he deserves what he gets. It's a cold thing to say, i realize. But come on! I could NEVER give up my family for any religion, job, or virtually ANYTHING.

His priorities are all askew.

That said, I am holding my ground for now. I want to see how he handles this situation. At some point, i will allow him to see his brother and sister again, but it will be supervised.

I hope he wakes up and realizes the value of family. It is just plain stupid to choose a religion over your family.

This approach may very well backfire on you. Satan likes nothing better than to isolate people from the truth. If there is a tendency on his part to gravitate to the more extreme elements of Islam, isolation from family makes his new group his family.

You will find out the hard way that compulsion doesn't work when it comes to religion. The person who was most influential in my decision to return to the church was someone who simply made a loving request and God steeed me the rest of the way.

I can understand the desire to control your son but he is out of your hands now and will go his own way as an adult. Not every child values family equally and a broken family may seem less valuable. With him becoming an adult you will have to gain respect the old fashioned way; you will have to earn it. I already don't respect you for the position you have taken with him and I wonder if you can make amends.
I just wonder where the concept of believing in force could have come from?

As for the dangers of religions forcing their way on someone, there are cults that practice brainwashing and all religions indoctrinate. Sometimes it is more than that as in the Islamic concept that leaving thier religion should be a sentence of death. Fortunately not all Muslims hold to that concept.

I have had churches try to hold on to me. It doesn't work because I serve Jesus first and the church second. The truth is that you can only hold on to what God gives you and sometimes he just loans you things. Children are on loan; they aren't possessions. If you get to be around one you like all your life consider it a blessing but it is not always the case. (I am a grandfather of four so I have had some experience with this)

 

[Breathe]

I add my voice to yours

As do I.

 

[Dezzie]

I think the Muslim Faith is EXTREMELY misunderstood because of 9/11, etc. It's all a part of our psychology. We witness one specific group of people doing bad things to others, we put two and two together (9/11 and, oh jees, Muslims), and automatically we assume the Muslim religion is evil.

As far as your son, he seems like quite the rebel. Does he have a huge issue with people telling him what to do? I know many kids will have this problem at that age, but it may be a different type of rebelling as far as your son is concerned. Does he have a problem with peer pressure? Does he like being different? Does he have issues with the family at all? He seems like have a bit more issues than you may think. Being different is absolutely fine... as well as being a Muslim. His actions aren't acceptable though...

 

[Dezzie]

Another thing I wanted to mention has to do with when you said "If people did not convert to islam allegedly muhammad's interpretation of allah's wishes was to kill those people." Guess what... Some Christians killed other innocent people as well because they didn't "convert" to Christianity.

 

[Autodidact]

Sadly, I have done all the things you've mentioned with him. I have been there every step of the way and he has told me as much. His behavior is puzzling to me for that very reason.

Yes, you are correct: I love my son. However, his utter disdain for his father's concern is maddening. He also runs roughshod on his mother doing as he pleases despite her concerns. As I mentioned, we are no longer together and have not been for some time. She has confided in me that she has given up on trying to get him to be honest. It is now her intention to leave the state as soon as he goes off to college.

That's another issue. He had been working diligently toward a degree in architecture and had applied at one of the country's premier schools for architecture. Now he is saying he may take "a year or so off" before he goes to college. In most(not ALL, before anyone cites specific examples to the contrary)cases, these students do NOT go on to complete their studies. A good number of individuals NEVER go to college at all.

Sorry. I veered off-topic.

Anyway, I do not want to permanently cut him off from his family, but I gave him a choice. If he is STUPID enough to choose a religion over his family, he deserves what he gets. It's a cold thing to say, i realize. But come on! I could NEVER give up my family for any religion, job, or virtually ANYTHING.

His priorities are all askew.

That said, I am holding my ground for now. I want to see how he handles this situation. At some point, i will allow him to see his brother and sister again, but it will be supervised.

I hope he wakes up and realizes the value of family. It is just plain stupid to choose a religion over your family.

I strongly believe you have taken exactly the opposite course from what you should have done.

You should not have asked him to choose between religion and family. You should have accepted his religion and continued to include him in the family. I predict this decision will turn out badly.

 

[Autodidact]

Hold the horses, people - Shredmeister made a comment that seems to be being overlooked:



I keep hearing comments along the line of "He's just a teenager - don't be so rough on him, don't cut him off from his family, etc etc."

The above described behavior is NOT normal teenager behavior. This is the behavior of a very disturbed young man.

In my opinion, he needs psychological help - from a psychiatrist, not simply a "counselor." And until his tendency toward violence is assessed and under control, his interaction with his siblings needs to be very strictly monitored.

He sounds so imbalanced and disturbed that his time with his siblings should probably be limited as well. If the truth be known, they would probably appreciate being shielded a bit from his behavior.

When it comes to violence and threats of violence, breaking the law and endangering others, one must take a very strong stand. The stakes are simply too high to treat the offender with kid gloves and sweetness and light.

I support a zero tolerance level for violence and threats of violence. You should make it clear to your son that you love him - but also make it clear that you will intervene swiftly and thoroughly (in ways that will be unpleasant to him) if he continues to be violent - in words or actions.

I would get law enforcement involved if necessary.

Continual lying is another very destructive trait, and one that is very hard to live with and operate with as a family. Besides being irritating and undermining of trust, it is extremely disrespectful. I would make sure that there are consequences that "fit the crime" when it comes to his lying. If he uses the car and then lies about where he went, I'd take his driving priviledges away. If he stays out past his curfew and then lies about what he was doing, I would ground him. If he lies about doing his homework, I would make him stay in the living room and finish it, and then review it - and I'd call his teachers or whatever (here we can get online to see homework assignments) to check up on his follow thru. You get the picture.

It's very trying. But get this - he's 17, not 14. If he continues to refuse to abide by the household standards and expectations, and make the people who support him tense, frustrated and miserable, I would tell him it's time to move out when he graduates.

As my oldest son loves to say, at that point he will be a grown *** man.

\

But the thread wasn't about, "My son has serious behavior problems..." The thread was about, "My son has chosen Islam." If I were Shred, I'd be more worried about compulsive lying than Islam. Heck, I don't know, but I'll take a wild guess that the qur'an and the Imam would tell him Allah doesn't want him to lie.

 

[beenie]

^ agree.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

it doesn't, because you are just choosing to bash Islam, not work on your relationship with your son. Islam is the scapegoat here.

Sadly, I have done all the things you've mentioned with him. I have been there every step of the way and he has told me as much. His behavior is puzzling to me for that very reason.

Yes, you are correct: I love my son. However, his utter disdain for his father's concern is maddening. He also runs roughshod on his mother doing as he pleases despite her concerns. As I mentioned, we are no longer together and have not been for some time. She has confided in me that she has given up on trying to get him to be honest. It is now her intention to leave the state as soon as he goes off to college.

That's another issue. He had been working diligently toward a degree in architecture and had applied at one of the country's premier schools for architecture. Now he is saying he may take "a year or so off" before he goes to college. In most(not ALL, before anyone cites specific examples to the contrary)cases, these students do NOT go on to complete their studies. A good number of individuals NEVER go to college at all.

Sorry. I veered off-topic.

Anyway, I do not want to permanently cut him off from his family, but I gave him a choice. If he is STUPID enough to choose a religion over his family, he deserves what he gets. It's a cold thing to say, i realize. But come on! I could NEVER give up my family for any religion, job, or virtually ANYTHING.

His priorities are all askew.

That said, I am holding my ground for now. I want to see how he handles this situation. At some point, i will allow him to see his brother and sister again, but it will be supervised.

I hope he wakes up and realizes the value of family. It is just plain stupid to choose a religion over your family.

that is really sad. first of all, your OP simply expressed concern about your son's choice of religion. you didn't provide all the underlying details that would help us understand how ill he really is. i think your priorities are askew as well. you're more caught up with his religious choices and you're ignoring the elephant in the room.

Aren't you mainly asking what to do with your son? Whats up with these infantile comments? a couple of muslims have responded to you and gave you their opinions, perhaps have a little manners not to unnecessarily make fun of their prophet?

And don't feel so special by the way, you're new so you just don't know that this topic of Muhammad's marriage have been covered many times.

thank you. i think we Muslims have been very patient and have answered his accusations to the best of our ability.

Hold the horses, people - Shredmeister made a comment that seems to be being overlooked:

I keep hearing comments along the line of "He's just a teenager - don't be so rough on him, don't cut him off from his family, etc etc."

The above described behavior is NOT normal teenager behavior. This is the behavior of a very disturbed young man.

In my opinion, he needs psychological help - from a psychiatrist, not simply a "counselor." And until his tendency toward violence is assessed and under control, his interaction with his siblings needs to be very strictly monitored.

He sounds so imbalanced and disturbed that his time with his siblings should probably be limited as well. If the truth be known, they would probably appreciate being shielded a bit from his behavior.

When it comes to violence and threats of violence, breaking the law and endangering others, one must take a very strong stand. The stakes are simply too high to treat the offender with kid gloves and sweetness and light.

I support a zero tolerance level for violence and threats of violence. You should make it clear to your son that you love him - but also make it clear that you will intervene swiftly and thoroughly (in ways that will be unpleasant to him) if he continues to be violent - in words or actions.

I would get law enforcement involved if necessary.

Continual lying is another very destructive trait, and one that is very hard to live with and operate with as a family. Besides being irritating and undermining of trust, it is extremely disrespectful. I would make sure that there are consequences that "fit the crime" when it comes to his lying. If he uses the car and then lies about where he went, I'd take his driving priviledges away. If he stays out past his curfew and then lies about what he was doing, I would ground him. If he lies about doing his homework, I would make him stay in the living room and finish it, and then review it - and I'd call his teachers or whatever (here we can get online to see homework assignments) to check up on his follow thru. You get the picture.

It's very trying. But get this - he's 17, not 14. If he continues to refuse to abide by the household standards and expectations, and make the people who support him tense, frustrated and miserable, I would tell him it's time to move out when he graduates.

As my oldest son loves to say, at that point he will be a grown *** man.

i agree that these issues are there, but OP conveniently left all those details out so he could bash Islam instead.

Kathryn, read the OP again. He said he has denied his son the privilege of seeing his brother and sister "until he gets out of this religion." He did not divulge the information about the mental instability until later.

He has also taken cheap shots at Islam throughout the whole thread despite the respectful responses of RF Muslims.

I contend it is the the fact that Shredmeister doesn't like Islam and is using his troubled relationship with his son to rail against it.

agreed on all counts.

Based on Shredmeisters posts in this thread, I have to agree.

i couldn't agree more.

I strongly believe you have taken exactly the opposite course from what you should have done.

You should not have asked him to choose between religion and family. You should have accepted his religion and continued to include him in the family. I predict this decision will turn out badly.

i see this going on a bad path as well. i honestly think you and your son need counseling; clearly you and he lack respect for each other. therein lies the root of your trouble. Islam is an easy scapegoat, especially when you already have a distaste for it and some so-called Muslims are adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Shredmeister]

As a father, i am not required to approve of his religious choices, or any other choices he makes. I am also permitted to correct him and give him consequences based on his behaviors.

I initially did not mention the magnitude of his issues in any detail. I did not think it was necessary. As this thread has unfolded, I have shared more and more. My first post was lengthy enough, and I was not comfortable sharing ALL the details of his actions at that point. Hopefully some among you can understand this. So sainnhu, you stand corrected. I did not conveniently leave these matters out so that I could bash islam. I left out the DETAILS because I did not feel they were relevant at that point. As this thread grew, I felt a need to share more.

I even had a person tell me beheading was "humane." That's where the worm turned for me. That's ludicrous. MOST muslims here have been respectful. Those who have been respectful have been respected by me as individuals. However, I must point out that there is more denial going on(not by ALL muslims, but by a few in this thread) than in a rehab clinic.

 

[TashaN]

As a father, i am not required to approve of his religious choices, or any other choices he makes. I am also permitted to correct him and give him consequences based on his behaviors.

I initially did not mention the magnitude of his issues in any detail. I did not think it was necessary. As this thread has unfolded, I have shared more and more. My first post was lengthy enough, and I was not comfortable sharing ALL the details of his actions at that point. Hopefully some among you can understand this. So sainnhu, you stand corrected. I did not conveniently leave these matters out so that I could bash islam. I left out the DETAILS because I did not feel they were relevant at that point. As this thread grew, I felt a need to share more.

I even had a person tell me beheading was "humane." That's where the worm turned for me. That's ludicrous. MOST muslims here have been respectful. Those who have been respectful have been respected by me as individuals. However, I must point out that there is more denial going on(not by ALL muslims, but by a few in this thread) than in a rehab clinic.

You asked about beheading, and the Muslim who replied to you saying it was humane thought you were talking about capital punishment for murderers, not beheading innocent people.

Capital punishment, which is the death sentence is still active in many American states till the writing of this post.

 

[xkatz]

As a father, i am not required to approve of his religious choices, or any other choices he makes. I am also permitted to correct him and give him consequences based on his behaviors.

You don't have to "like" that he is a Muslims per-se, but if you try to correct him and "give" him consequences, you are only doing more damage to your relationship w/ him and you are only going to reinforce bad behavior from him. While you may not like him being Muslim, Islam may help him out a lot w/ other issues. As long as Islam isn't making him do anything bad, I wouldn't cut him off or punish him in any other way. He'll either stay a Muslim or decide it's not his thing.

 

[Shredmeister]

Another thing I wanted to mention has to do with when you said "If people did not convert to islam allegedly muhammad's interpretation of allah's wishes was to kill those people." Guess what... Some Christians killed other innocent people as well because they didn't "convert" to Christianity.

But Jesus didn't kill these people, whereas Muhammad clearly did.

I am aware, and have mentioned in this thread, that there are some incredibly bad things done by people who are Christians. I am not ignorant to this fact.

However, when I pressed my son as to his beliefs regarding terrorism and suicide bombings, beheadings, etc...when these actions were SPECIFICALLY done by people claiming they do it for religious reasons...his response is not unlike SOME of what i have read here: "Those aren't real muslims(although the perpetrators claim islam)." or "They're doing it wrong." That troubles me.

 

[xkatz]

You asked about beheading, and the Muslim who replied to you saying it was humane thought you were talking about capital punishment for murderers, not beheading innocent people.

Capital punishment, which is the death sentence is still active in many American states till the writing of this post.

Yes, we still have capital punishment (unfortunately), but beheading is not legal or used AFAIK.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Shredmeister so you think your son should be corrected and given consequences for choosing Islam? And you wonder why we don't want Christianity to takeover America? What penalty am I going to get for choosing Paganism?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Shredmeister also to let you know, I trust you know this, FYI- trying to control your son's religious choices through such methods is illegal.

 

[Shredmeister]

You asked about beheading, and the Muslim who replied to you saying it was humane thought you were talking about capital punishment for murderers, not beheading innocent people.

Capital punishment, which is the death sentence is still active in many American states till the writing of this post.

Not in my state.

Beheading innocent people while calling out Allah's name is downright revolting. I am pretty sure you agree, but please know that I am NOT talking about punishment for crime.

I'm talking about western journalists, among others. NOT criminals.