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Noah's Ark
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But then that would have to be carried as part of an oral tradition with all the problems of accuracy that would entail.
IMO, it makes no sense as actual history but can make a great deal of sense as a "myth" to teach from.
We Never Know
No Slack
Not slicing anything. Just repeating what was said. But thanks for your participation though.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
OK, here's my comment and I am hardly disagreeing with you, it didn't happen when Moses was alive. Therefore -- (I'll leave the rest open except to say that I believe he had God's spirit.) It makes sense to me as it was written as Jesus described things at Matthew 24 regarding his return. Not in the flesh, of course. When I see the political climate and how people actually hate one another, say bad things about the other, and hurt if not kill one another -- it's a sad state of affairs.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So there must have been something about a big flood. I wasn't there, I appreciate the Bible account and Jesus spoke about it but I wasn't there. Yet there are accounts of a big flood. Does that prove that there was a flood as recorded in the Bible? All I can say now that it certainly does lead to the veracity that there had been a really big flood.
The Mediterranean Sea was open to the Atlantic during the entire glacial period. Maybe you mean the Bosperous ice dam hypothesis, said to have suddenly turned the freshwater Black Lake into the Black Sea ~9400 years ago.
Noah’s Not-so-big Flood
A long time ago, whether your time frame is biblical or geological, the Black Sea was a large freshwater Black "Lake." It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a high piece of land that dammed the entry of salty seawater through the narrow connecting Bosphorus valley. [caption...
www.whoi.edu
Yes, apparently one of the Middle East tribes embellished one of their flood legends into a whole narrative about an ark and a worldwide flood.
Clearly nothing of the sort happened, but it made a good story.
Yes floods happen all the time, all over the world. Back then, they would have been major events, and much talked about.
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Audie
Veteran Member
Audie
Veteran Member
No way it would be "sudden".The Mediterranean Sea was open to the Atlantic during the entire glacial period. Maybe you mean the Bosperous ice dam hypothesis, said to have suddenly turned the freshwater Black Lake into the Black Sea ~9400 years ago.
Noah’s Not-so-big Flood
A long time ago, whether your time frame is biblical or geological, the Black Sea was a large freshwater Black "Lake." It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a high piece of land that dammed the entry of salty seawater through the narrow connecting Bosphorus valley. [caption...
First a lille water trickles through at the
peak of a high- high tide.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Worse yet, the channel. which was not that long if I remember correctly, would have had a heavy flow of water. But the Black Sea was already a very sizeable body of water. It was estimated to take a year to fill and that is not a rapid rate. People easily walked away form it. Buildings and villages cannot walk, so they would have been covered. But it was not a life threatening flood in the way that the magic flood of Noah was supposed to be.
GoodAttention
Well-Known Member
I don’t think we give our ancestors enough credit.
The history I notice
Flooding of the Persian Gulf - 10,000 years ago.
Last Glacial Maximum - 23,000 years ago.
Noah - 4500 years ago
Scripture
His days will be 120 years. What does this mean? Everyone kept living longer than this after the event. So it could mean the flood wasn’t over days but hundreds of years.
First 40 days is 4800 years
Days and nights, meaning an equatorial location.
150 days is 18000 years.
110 days had no nights, meaning a polar location.
Insane as it sounds, Noah went back in time to note the Persian Gulf Flooding, then to the Glacial maximum and then back to his present time.
Terminator rules apply of course.
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Outburst floods can happen very quickly and release massive volumes of water. Glacial lake outburst flood - Wikipedia
The hypothesis was that the strait was plugged by a massive wall of ice. Once the climate warmed it began to melt. Water trickling through ice melts it quickly, and it can give way suddenly, once the dam's integrity is undermined.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, but Glacial Lake Missoula was at much higher altitude. There was over a 2,000 foot drop from Glacial Lake Missoula to the Channeled Scablands.
Also if you read the Wiki article on the Black Sea flood they claim that it took about a year to fill. That is not a rapid expansion of the Black Sea.
GoodAttention
Well-Known Member
The story of Noah shows how God is outside time and space
- I believe there are 2 Noahs in Genesis, one that lived 18,000 years before the better known one.
- The anger from God is about mankind circa 20,000BCE and yet God is able to find another righteous Noah amongst them.
- The Ice Age Noah experiences the wrath of God, whilst the Mesopotamian Noah travels back to "see" what the Earth was like at the time.
- I believe on the travel back to present, he stops during the time of Adam and fulfils his name sake “This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed" when he releases a dove that returns with an olive leaf.
- The idea of a "flood" is completely irrelevant.
- Noah returns earlier than he left, allowing God to remember "“I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake, for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."
Historical relevance
The formation and then melting of glaciers and how this affects sea levels is being understood more finely with today’s technology, but our ancient ancestors were also passing down information orally about Earth’s changing environment.
The last Glacial maximum was 18000BCE, with one quarter of the Earths surface covered in glaciers, albeit mostly around the Artic and Alaska. By Approximately 15000BCE sea levels started to rise globally, accelerating between 13000 and 10000BCE and plateauing 6000BCE.
The verse "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered" is important because the thickness describes new ice accurately.
The Ark
The dimensions given are a 150:1 perfect ratio to the tabernacle, and the method in which it is described, especially the pitch, window opening, and cover suggest it will also be a holy vessel that God will occupy with Noah and his family. The use of Cypress wood given its rot resistance is also of interest when compared to Acacia. The shape of the ark appears like an inverted tabernacle also.
Scripture
I refer back to the "his days will be 120 years", and I interpret this specifically as Noahs days in the ark. The waters take 150 days to "elevate", which would be the equivalent of 18,000 years, putting it at a time squarely when the Glacial maximum was increasing.
Proof? - The two stories occur as a parallel in Genesis 7 and 8 with alternating verses going by 3. Both ending with verses 16-22
- I believe there are 2 Noahs in Genesis, one that lived 18,000 years before the better known one.
- The anger from God is about mankind circa 20,000BCE and yet God is able to find another righteous Noah amongst them.
- The Ice Age Noah experiences the wrath of God, whilst the Mesopotamian Noah travels back to "see" what the Earth was like at the time.
- I believe on the travel back to present, he stops during the time of Adam and fulfils his name sake “This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed" when he releases a dove that returns with an olive leaf.
- The idea of a "flood" is completely irrelevant.
- Noah returns earlier than he left, allowing God to remember "“I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake, for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."
Historical relevance
The formation and then melting of glaciers and how this affects sea levels is being understood more finely with today’s technology, but our ancient ancestors were also passing down information orally about Earth’s changing environment.
The last Glacial maximum was 18000BCE, with one quarter of the Earths surface covered in glaciers, albeit mostly around the Artic and Alaska. By Approximately 15000BCE sea levels started to rise globally, accelerating between 13000 and 10000BCE and plateauing 6000BCE.
The verse "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered" is important because the thickness describes new ice accurately.
The Ark
The dimensions given are a 150:1 perfect ratio to the tabernacle, and the method in which it is described, especially the pitch, window opening, and cover suggest it will also be a holy vessel that God will occupy with Noah and his family. The use of Cypress wood given its rot resistance is also of interest when compared to Acacia. The shape of the ark appears like an inverted tabernacle also.
Scripture
I refer back to the "his days will be 120 years", and I interpret this specifically as Noahs days in the ark. The waters take 150 days to "elevate", which would be the equivalent of 18,000 years, putting it at a time squarely when the Glacial maximum was increasing.
Proof? - The two stories occur as a parallel in Genesis 7 and 8 with alternating verses going by 3. Both ending with verses 16-22
Tomef
Well-Known Member
Ah, so that’s why he’s No-ah. He was never surprised by anything, since he could time travel. Sounds legit.
Yes, that sounds insane. What evidence is there supporting this, other than biblical folklore?
But clearly there was no worldwide flood. It's both unevidenced and implausible. Surely you don't take this narrative seriously?
Audie
Veteran Member
Just say, " I believe, and that proves it."
Audie
Veteran Member
Can happen. Wiki. Hypothesis.
And I did take a second major in geology,
besides thousands of miles travel with
my then- boyfriend. (Geologist.) I've toured
the channeled scablands. I'm not just a high- rise city girl
The whole " hypothesis" is too cute by one half.
Anything that ties into bible- beliefs will get attention.
And they did. With karma, carrers will be marred with
"publicity hound" and shoddy geology.
See if you can figure any problems with their
fantasy.
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alf
Member
The story of Noah and the ark is a spiritual story that metaphorically describes a person's spiritual transformation.
The path to the sky of a soul character in which all emotional and mental opposites are united, represented by animals.
Birds are human thoughts, which can be as black as a raven or as peaceful as a dove.
The flood is a metaphor for temptation that can drown a person or lift them to sky!
Are you the master of your emotions, senses and thoughts or are you their servant?
Man is created in the image of God!
26
Then God said, “And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild, large and small.”
You do not know what kind of spirit you are.
The path to the sky of a soul character in which all emotional and mental opposites are united, represented by animals.
Birds are human thoughts, which can be as black as a raven or as peaceful as a dove.
The flood is a metaphor for temptation that can drown a person or lift them to sky!
Are you the master of your emotions, senses and thoughts or are you their servant?
Man is created in the image of God!
26
Then God said, “And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us. They will have power over the fish, the birds, and all animals, domestic and wild, large and small.”
You do not know what kind of spirit you are.