dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Good morning. ( Yikes, it was morning when I started this )
I'm trying very hard to get this into a single reply, because I think having multiple converstation streams is causing some miscommunication between us. I've spent a lot of time typing and revising and cropping. I needed to remove a great deal of, imo, valuable details, some of which were from your post in the quoted sections. I'm sorry for that. Please keep that in mind when reading it?
I think we'll need to try to focus and reduce our conversation in order to keep the conversation coherent. OK?
Please note: this reply goes through a bit of a transition. I began writing hours ago. And I've finally made it full-circle to the revisions. I began writing with a lot of hope that we can have a valuable discussion. By the end of the reply, I became much less hopeful.
Ultimately, I continue to feel, in my heart, that you do not want to listen to what I have to say. You want me to listen and be persuaded by your words. You want me to defer to you as an authority figure. That's not going to work for me for multiple reasons. But I gave you my word that I would be happy to listen.
What I'm looking for in a reply to this post, is some kind of reassurance I can believe in that you are interested in what I am writing, and that my words matter. That I'm not just some stereotype that fits into your certain conclusions. Lacking that, I hope you will undertand if I refrain from active participation. But I will listen because, I said I would do that. My word is my bond.
Sincerely,
PS... I've got it. I've got it all figured out. You've tipped your hand. Now I see it clearly... well.... Maybe we'll get there, maybe not. The good news is, now that I understand your position. Fully. I can finally crop this reply below the word-count limit.
Whew. The good news for you is, you don't need to explain anything to me. I completely understand your postion. I've heard it before. I've been here for a while, bro.
I hear what you're saying. I understand. But, there's more to it than what it appears to be on the surface.
I think that's probably good. But, also, repression isn't healthy either. It's tricky. The problem with using generalized terms for negative assertions is that it reinforces stereotyping. It's the same for exaggerations. But this is more of an emotive mechanism, in the "heart". Both of these cause problems if they become in-grained and habitual.
And there's also a sort of echo-chamber / feedback loop that occurs when people, forgive me, preach outloud or in writing. This causes another cognitive fault, which maybe I will detail later.
Ahhhhhh. the term is Tzion, not Zion. This is important.
Zion would be spelled זיון. Tzion is ציון. That's a HUGE difference. See below.
Not a Z, that's a Zayin. It's a Tz, that's a Tzadik. In Greek they use Sigma, not Zeta.
The term is not about a fortress. The fortress was named ציון, by the other nations. But that's not what the "term" is about. It's very difficult for me not to over-load you with information, because, I love-love this stuff. But you're claiming knowledge of this, and there's a lot more to this than appears on the surface.
I'm really struggling here. Because I hear you. The Rabbis mislead, and that hurts me too. How can I fix that without pouring out my heart and soul and correct the record? I've been fortunate to learn with some amazing pious, knowledgable, insightful, and wise Rabbis. Their hearts are certainly in the right place. They embody tzion. I am quite confident you know what I mean when I chose that word specifically. They embody tzion.
But I don't know if you want to hear me. I've been typing for... wow... 3 hours. I'm deleting what I wrote. It's too much.
I hear you, please hear me? Tzion is about Tzedakah and Mishpat, ref: Isaiah 1:17+27, Psalms 119:160, proverbs, in exodus, my daily prayers: Melech ohaiv tzedakah u'mishpat. The King loves tzedakah and mishpat. That's the essence of tzion and tzionism, but you need Hebrew knowledge to see it, and you are lacking that. I'm sorry to be blunt. I'm cramped for space.
ציון במשפט תפדה ושביה בצדקה׃
There it is again. Mislead. 3 times in 6 sentences? And you lead with it. Hee-hee. ( pun unintended ) I don't think you are qualified to be certain about this. You would need a lot more data to make this allegation and have it taken seriously. Based on what you've written, this is irrational religious doctrine.
~taking-a-deep-breath~
I hear you. I know a few things. It's a burden knowing things, isn't it? Understanding makes it easier. One of things I deleted from this reply is this: In this context, understanding is the path to peace.
I agree, evolution is a wonderful model, but, I think it needs to be qualified.
Evolution is progress at a tragic price. The greatest advancements are produced by catatrophe. And what is produced? Survival of the fittest? Might=right? Dog-eat-dog? Yes there are symbiotic arrangements of stability, but there's also parasitic arrangements of decomposition.
I prefer a different word. Not evolve, cultivate. Like a garden.
Similarly, for love. I prefer a different word in this context. ϕιλία. I consider it a healthy love, because, I always try to partner it with respect.
You're either missing my point, or I'm not being clear.
I'm not making an excuse. I'm not being rude. You're demonizing me falsely.
It's not consistent to ignore rockets on cafes, multiple bombings, attacks on innocent children, and instead focusing on property damage, border disputes, and apartheid.
It's not fair, it's not balanced, it's not consistent.
Bro, you don't know what I see. I am not spiritually blind.
I promise I can meet you half way **or more**. You don't know me. If you take one step towards me, I will take a dozen steps, towards you, even if it crosses way outside of my comfort-zone. That's who I am.
Well. It gets tricky because we had two different streams of discussion going, and I'm playing catch up.
So. Regarding the term zionism. I think there is value in using it, if it is used correctly. I think there's value in establishing what it actually means. And the spirit that is behind it. It is not military. It is not terrorist. ציון is not זיון. Huge difference. I also think there is value in analyzing these concepts at a high level. Much higher than this. When that happens, I think it can be understood, clearly understood, what produces the phenomena you are describing. It would be the how-and-why ציון becomes זיון. AND HOW TO FLIP IT BACK.
It's not that "everyone hates me". That's not what I said. It's more nuanced than that. I can reply and explain in another post. But I need to crop out the details to fit this into a single reply.
Yeah, given. The number 1 issue I have is trying to figure out if you want me to simply defer to you and your narrative. And, I thiink that's highly likely.
If you are calling me "brother", then we are equals. But it seems like what you mean is not "bro". It seems like you're calling me "son" and you're taking the role as "father", "teacher", "shepherd", or "minister". If that's your actual intention, you have some work to do to establish yourself into that role.
Not true. I am not a hypocrite! I am different! I am not like the others! I have demonstrated this.
You are either not hearing me, ignoring what I'm writing, or you have forgotten already. I have demonstrated that I can absolutely identify potential for bias, and I can assume my own sources are biased. I can easily consider my own narrative as flawed and false!
I'll not write any further, because an excellent example is provided and highlighted below. Thank you.
That's not what I said. This is the proof I mentioned a few sentences back that I am NOT a hypocrite.
This is what I said: "Right or wrong, true or false, the UN has a pattern of being anti-Israel." Please read this and understand what I am saying. Anti-Israel can be right, and can be true. Please hear me. You already know in your heart, I am different. I do not fit the stereotype. The above quote PROVES it. I am saying here that being anti-Israel can be the correct position to take. But it's complicated.
Absolutely! I would tell that to my own children! There are lines that are not to be crossed ever. Even if generations are oppressed, killing innocent children in the most heinous of manner? Are you actually claiming it's tit-for-tat????
No way. You think I'm a hypocrite? You're wrong. I'm different.
I'm trying very hard to get this into a single reply, because I think having multiple converstation streams is causing some miscommunication between us. I've spent a lot of time typing and revising and cropping. I needed to remove a great deal of, imo, valuable details, some of which were from your post in the quoted sections. I'm sorry for that. Please keep that in mind when reading it?
I think we'll need to try to focus and reduce our conversation in order to keep the conversation coherent. OK?
Please note: this reply goes through a bit of a transition. I began writing hours ago. And I've finally made it full-circle to the revisions. I began writing with a lot of hope that we can have a valuable discussion. By the end of the reply, I became much less hopeful.
Ultimately, I continue to feel, in my heart, that you do not want to listen to what I have to say. You want me to listen and be persuaded by your words. You want me to defer to you as an authority figure. That's not going to work for me for multiple reasons. But I gave you my word that I would be happy to listen.
What I'm looking for in a reply to this post, is some kind of reassurance I can believe in that you are interested in what I am writing, and that my words matter. That I'm not just some stereotype that fits into your certain conclusions. Lacking that, I hope you will undertand if I refrain from active participation. But I will listen because, I said I would do that. My word is my bond.
Sincerely,
PS... I've got it. I've got it all figured out. You've tipped your hand. Now I see it clearly... well.... Maybe we'll get there, maybe not. The good news is, now that I understand your position. Fully. I can finally crop this reply below the word-count limit.
Whew. The good news for you is, you don't need to explain anything to me. I completely understand your postion. I've heard it before. I've been here for a while, bro.
I hear what you're saying. I understand. But, there's more to it than what it appears to be on the surface.
I think that's probably good. But, also, repression isn't healthy either. It's tricky. The problem with using generalized terms for negative assertions is that it reinforces stereotyping. It's the same for exaggerations. But this is more of an emotive mechanism, in the "heart". Both of these cause problems if they become in-grained and habitual.
And there's also a sort of echo-chamber / feedback loop that occurs when people, forgive me, preach outloud or in writing. This causes another cognitive fault, which maybe I will detail later.
Ahhhhhh. the term is Tzion, not Zion. This is important.
Zion would be spelled זיון. Tzion is ציון. That's a HUGE difference. See below.
Not a Z, that's a Zayin. It's a Tz, that's a Tzadik. In Greek they use Sigma, not Zeta.
The term is not about a fortress. The fortress was named ציון, by the other nations. But that's not what the "term" is about. It's very difficult for me not to over-load you with information, because, I love-love this stuff. But you're claiming knowledge of this, and there's a lot more to this than appears on the surface.
I'm really struggling here. Because I hear you. The Rabbis mislead, and that hurts me too. How can I fix that without pouring out my heart and soul and correct the record? I've been fortunate to learn with some amazing pious, knowledgable, insightful, and wise Rabbis. Their hearts are certainly in the right place. They embody tzion. I am quite confident you know what I mean when I chose that word specifically. They embody tzion.
But I don't know if you want to hear me. I've been typing for... wow... 3 hours. I'm deleting what I wrote. It's too much.
I hear you, please hear me? Tzion is about Tzedakah and Mishpat, ref: Isaiah 1:17+27, Psalms 119:160, proverbs, in exodus, my daily prayers: Melech ohaiv tzedakah u'mishpat. The King loves tzedakah and mishpat. That's the essence of tzion and tzionism, but you need Hebrew knowledge to see it, and you are lacking that. I'm sorry to be blunt. I'm cramped for space.
ציון במשפט תפדה ושביה בצדקה׃
There it is again. Mislead. 3 times in 6 sentences? And you lead with it. Hee-hee. ( pun unintended ) I don't think you are qualified to be certain about this. You would need a lot more data to make this allegation and have it taken seriously. Based on what you've written, this is irrational religious doctrine.
~taking-a-deep-breath~
I hear you. I know a few things. It's a burden knowing things, isn't it? Understanding makes it easier. One of things I deleted from this reply is this: In this context, understanding is the path to peace.
I agree, evolution is a wonderful model, but, I think it needs to be qualified.
Evolution is progress at a tragic price. The greatest advancements are produced by catatrophe. And what is produced? Survival of the fittest? Might=right? Dog-eat-dog? Yes there are symbiotic arrangements of stability, but there's also parasitic arrangements of decomposition.
I prefer a different word. Not evolve, cultivate. Like a garden.
Similarly, for love. I prefer a different word in this context. ϕιλία. I consider it a healthy love, because, I always try to partner it with respect.
You're either missing my point, or I'm not being clear.
I'm not making an excuse. I'm not being rude. You're demonizing me falsely.
It's not consistent to ignore rockets on cafes, multiple bombings, attacks on innocent children, and instead focusing on property damage, border disputes, and apartheid.
It's not fair, it's not balanced, it's not consistent.
Bro, you don't know what I see. I am not spiritually blind.
I promise I can meet you half way **or more**. You don't know me. If you take one step towards me, I will take a dozen steps, towards you, even if it crosses way outside of my comfort-zone. That's who I am.
Well. It gets tricky because we had two different streams of discussion going, and I'm playing catch up.
So. Regarding the term zionism. I think there is value in using it, if it is used correctly. I think there's value in establishing what it actually means. And the spirit that is behind it. It is not military. It is not terrorist. ציון is not זיון. Huge difference. I also think there is value in analyzing these concepts at a high level. Much higher than this. When that happens, I think it can be understood, clearly understood, what produces the phenomena you are describing. It would be the how-and-why ציון becomes זיון. AND HOW TO FLIP IT BACK.
It's not that "everyone hates me". That's not what I said. It's more nuanced than that. I can reply and explain in another post. But I need to crop out the details to fit this into a single reply.
Yeah, given. The number 1 issue I have is trying to figure out if you want me to simply defer to you and your narrative. And, I thiink that's highly likely.
If you are calling me "brother", then we are equals. But it seems like what you mean is not "bro". It seems like you're calling me "son" and you're taking the role as "father", "teacher", "shepherd", or "minister". If that's your actual intention, you have some work to do to establish yourself into that role.
Not true. I am not a hypocrite! I am different! I am not like the others! I have demonstrated this.
You are either not hearing me, ignoring what I'm writing, or you have forgotten already. I have demonstrated that I can absolutely identify potential for bias, and I can assume my own sources are biased. I can easily consider my own narrative as flawed and false!
I'll not write any further, because an excellent example is provided and highlighted below. Thank you.
That's not what I said. This is the proof I mentioned a few sentences back that I am NOT a hypocrite.
This is what I said: "Right or wrong, true or false, the UN has a pattern of being anti-Israel." Please read this and understand what I am saying. Anti-Israel can be right, and can be true. Please hear me. You already know in your heart, I am different. I do not fit the stereotype. The above quote PROVES it. I am saying here that being anti-Israel can be the correct position to take. But it's complicated.
Absolutely! I would tell that to my own children! There are lines that are not to be crossed ever. Even if generations are oppressed, killing innocent children in the most heinous of manner? Are you actually claiming it's tit-for-tat????
No way. You think I'm a hypocrite? You're wrong. I'm different.
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But forgiveness is not absolution, in my judgement. However, I react too quickly too. All the dang time. So how can I possibly judge you harshly for this?
