One God, One Saviour the Creator

[Nada]

Which shows that your holy scriptures are wrong on the subject.

Egyptian Chronology. Egyptian history meshes with that of Israel at various points. In this publication we show the date 1728 B.C.E. for Israel’s entry into Egypt, and for the Exodus, 215 years later, 1513 B.C.E. Pharaoh Shishak’s attack on Jerusalem came during Rehoboam’s fifth year in 993 B.C.E.; King So of Egypt was contemporary with Hoshea’s reign (c. 758-740 B.C.E.); and Pharaoh Necho’s battle resulting in Josiah’s death likely came in 629 B.C.E. (1Ki 14:25; 2Ki 17:4; 2Ch 35:20-24) The difference between the above dates and those generally assigned by modern historians amounts to as much as a century or more for the Exodus and then narrows down to about 20 years by Pharaoh Necho’s time. The following information shows why we prefer to hold to the chronology based on the Biblical reckoning.

Modern historians rely principally on certain documents in the form of Egyptian king lists or annals. Among these are: the fragmentary Palermo Stone, presenting what are considered to be the first five “dynasties” of Egyptian history; the Turin Papyrus, very fragmentary and giving a list of kings and their reigns from the “Old Kingdom” into the “New Kingdom”; and additional inscriptions in stone, likewise fragmentary. These separate lists and other independent inscriptions have been coordinated in chronological order by means of the writings of Manetho, an Egyptian priest of the third century B.C.E. His works, dealing with Egyptian history and religion, arrange the reigns of the Egyptian monarchs into 30 dynasties, an arrangement still used by modern Egyptologists. These sources, together with astronomical calculations, based on Egyptian texts dealing with lunar phases and the rising of the Dog Star (Sothis), have been used to produce a chronological table.


Chronology — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Nada]

Which shows that your holy scriptures are wrong on the subject.

Problems of Egyptian chronology. Uncertainties are multiple. The works of Manetho, used to give order to the fragmentary lists and other inscriptions, are preserved only in the writings of later historians, such as Josephus (first century C.E.), Sextus Julius Africanus (third century C.E., hence over 500 years from Manetho’s time), Eusebius (fourth century C.E.), and Syncellus (late eighth or early ninth century C.E.). As stated by W. G. Waddell, their quotations of Manetho’s writings are fragmentary and often distorted and hence “it is extremely difficult to reach certainty in regard to what is authentic Manetho and what is spurious or corrupt.” After showing that Manetho’s source material included some unhistorical traditions and legends that “introduced kings as their heroes, without regard to chronological order,” he says: “There were many errors in Manetho’s work from the very beginning: all are not due to the perversions of scribes and revisers. Many of the lengths of reigns have been found impossible: in some cases the names and the sequence of kings as given by Manetho have proved untenable in the light of monumental evidence.”—Manetho, introduction, pp. vii, xvii, xx, xxi, xxv.

The probability that concurrent reigns rather than successive reigns are responsible for many of Manetho’s excessively long periods is shown in the book Studies inEgyptian Chronology, by T. Nicklin (Blackburn, Eng., 1928, p. 39): “The Manethonian Dynasties . . . are not lists of rulers over all Egypt, but lists partly of more or less independent princes, partly . . . of princely lines from which later sprang rulers over all Egypt.” Professor Waddell (pp. 1-9) observes that “perhaps several Egyptian kings ruled at one and the same time; . . . thus it was not a succession of kings occupying the throne one after the other, but several kings reigning at the same time in different regions. Hence arose the great total number of years.”

Since the Bible points to the year 2370 B.C.E. as the date of the global Flood, Egyptian history must have begun after that date. The problems in Egyptian chronology shown above are doubtless responsible for the figures advanced by modern historians who would run Egyptian history all the way back to the year 3000 B.C.E.

Greater confidence is placed by Egyptologists in the ancient inscriptions themselves. Yet, the carefulness, truthfulness, and moral integrity of the Egyptian scribes are by no means above suspicion. As Professor J. A. Wilson states: “A warning should be issued about the precise historical value of Egyptian inscriptions. That was a world of . . . divine myths and miracles.” Then after suggesting that the scribes were not above juggling the chronology of events to add praise to the particular monarch in power, he says: “The historian will accept his data at face value, unless there is a clear reason for distrust; but he must be ready to modify his acceptance as soon as new materials put the previous interpretation in a new light.”—The World History of the Jewish People,1964, Vol. 1, pp. 280, 281.


Chronology — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Nada]

Which shows that your holy scriptures are wrong on the subject.

Absence of information concerning Israel. This is not surprising, since the Egyptians not only refused to record matters uncomplimentary to themselves but also were not above effacing records of a previous monarch if the information in such records proved distasteful to the then reigning pharaoh. Thus, after the death of Queen Hatshepsut, Thutmose III had her name and representations chiseled out of the monumental reliefs. This practice doubtless explains why there is no known Egyptian record of the 215 years of Israelite residence in Egypt or of their Exodus.

The pharaoh ruling at the time of the Exodus is not named in the Bible; hence, efforts to identify him are based on conjecture. This partly explains why modern historians’ calculations of the date of the Exodus vary from 1441 to 1225 B.C.E., a difference of over 200 years.

Assyrian Chronology. From the time of Shalmaneser III (early part of first millennium B.C.E.), Assyrian inscriptions mention contacts with the Israelites, at times naming certain kings of Judah and of Israel. The Assyrian inscriptions include display inscriptions, such as are found on the walls of palaces; royal annals; king lists, such as that from Khorsabad; and the limmu, or eponym, lists


Chronology — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[metis]

The scriptures are twisted, line upon line, precept upon precept, a little here a little there.

Then why do you quote them?

 

[averageJOE]

Come on BibleStudent...you're using the Watchtower as a source??? That's the same as arguing a Big Mac is healthy and using a McDonald's article as evidence.

 

[Nada]

Come on BibleStudent...you're using the Watchtower as a source??? That's the same as arguing a Big Mac is healthy and using a McDonald's article as evidence.

Well then it was nice talking to you.You have yourself a good day.Thanks.

 

[HekaMa'atRa]

Lol......

Come on BibleStudent...you're using the Watchtower as a source??? That's the same as arguing a Big Mac is healthy and using a McDonald's article as evidence.

I too have no concern for Watchtower information. That'd be akin to using an astrology book to answer astronomy questions. In my personal opinion, Hebrew mythology is no different nor important than any other ancient religion's mythology - and if you're going to hold the Bible in a literal sense, rather than metaphorical, which I'm assuming you are @Bible Student, then I'm afraid this conversation is inevitably doomed.

And if you're going to take the Bible literally, I can only tell you the holes I see as person very familiar with Ancient Egyptian history. There are no Egyptian accounts of the Israelites in Egypt. The Bible can't even tell us the supposed Pharaoh of Exodus EVEN THOGUH this pharaoh was essentially Moses' step brother. Yes, Pharaohs would try and spin the outcome of certain battles or erase the accomplishments/"heresies" of previous Pharaohs - but at least we have evidence of this. The Egyptians also weren't afraid to record the bad times in their history. But again, no mention of Prince Moses and his Hebrews. No tomb where Moses' stepfather records the name Moses. No mention from Egyptian nobility on losing their first borns, no mention of the Nile turning red or fire falling from the sky.

What I can tell you are historical facts that are held by the majority of historians and archeologists, and they tell and show us that the Ancient Egyptian religion and philosophy predates that of the Hebrews. The Pyramid Texts are regarded as the oldest religious literature in history - they're actually dated to around 2400 b.c.e. and it becomes obvious that these advanced texts are the result of even further more ancient beliefs that probably took many centuries to develop.

 

[Nada]

I too have no concern for Watchtower information. That'd be akin to using an astrology book to answer astronomy questions. In my personal opinion, Hebrew mythology is no different nor important than any other ancient religion's mythology - and if you're going to hold the Bible in a literal sense, rather than metaphorical, which I'm assuming you are @Bible Student, then I'm afraid this conversation is inevitably doomed.

And if you're going to take the Bible literally, I can only tell you the holes I see as person very familiar with Ancient Egyptian history. There are no Egyptian accounts of the Israelites in Egypt. The Bible can't even tell us the supposed Pharaoh of Exodus EVEN THOGUH this pharaoh was essentially Moses' step brother. Yes, Pharaohs would try and spin the outcome of certain battles or erase the accomplishments/"heresies" of previous Pharaohs - but at least we have evidence of this. The Egyptians also weren't afraid to record the bad times in their history. But again, no mention of Prince Moses and his Hebrews. No tomb where Moses' stepfather records the name Moses. No mention from Egyptian nobility on losing their first borns, no mention of the Nile turning red or fire falling from the sky.

What I can tell you are historical facts that are held by the majority of historians and archeologists, and they tell and show us that the Ancient Egyptian religion and philosophy predates that of the Hebrews. The Pyramid Texts are regarded as the oldest religious literature in history - they're actually dated to around 2400 b.c.e. and it becomes obvious that these advanced texts are the result of even further more ancient beliefs that probably took many centuries to develop.

Not all of the holy scriptures is literal.There is much symbolic language.like in the book of Revelation.There are also parables.

 

[HekaMa'atRa]

Not all of the holy scriptures is literal.There is much symbolic language.like in the book of Revelation.There are also parables.

Glad we can agree on that.

 

[Nada]

Glad we can agree on that.

Cool.Now you can buy me a beer.Lol..

 

[HekaMa'atRa]

Cool.Now you can buy me a beer.Lol..

Deal!

 

[roger1440]

Except the author put in the present tense and Jesus wasn't to come around for hundreds of years. No matter how you try and twist it, your interpretation doesn't make any sense. Even "Jerome's Bible Commentary", which is a Christian (Catholic) source, states that it is not a reference to Jesus.

I wouldn’t put my trust in Christian commentaries if I were you. They have it backwards. They attempt to Christianize the Old Testament. When in fact they should Judaize the New Testament. By reading the Gospels as allegorical Jewish writings all the themes begin to fall in place. The Gospels are meant to be in agreement with the Torah, not argue with it.

 

[roger1440]

It's "a light unto the gentiles", which is repeated at various intervals in the Tanakh, and it's quite clear that the Covenant is not meant to be contained for just us Jews but is to be shared with the gentile nations as well. And it has since both Christianity and Islam eventually emerged with the belief in one God, and also influenced other peoples as well.

Anyhow, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but please stop trying to twist the scriptures so they read what you want them to say.

Shalom, and take care.

Jesus is the allegorical representation of the union between Israel and God. Mary is the nation of Israel. She is not some hot Jewish chick that was knocked up by God. This union gives birth to Israel’s holiness. The Messiah according to the Gospels is the holiness of Israel. The twelve Apostles are the twelve tribes of Israel. Mathew’s Jesus tells the Apostles to make disciples of all nations. This is the “light” Isaiah wrote of.

 

[metis]

Jesus is the allegorical representation of the union between Israel and God. Mary is the nation of Israel. She is not some hot Jewish chick that was knocked up by God. This union gives birth to Israel’s holiness. The Messiah according to the Gospels is the holiness of Israel. The twelve Apostles are the twelve tribes of Israel. Mathew’s Jesus tells the Apostles to make disciples of all nations. This is the “light” Isaiah wrote of.

Obviously that's your interpretation, which I don't share, and I agree with "Jerome's Bible Commentary" (Catholic) on this.

 

[metis]

I wouldn’t put my trust in Christian commentaries if I were you. They have it backwards. They attempt to Christianize the Old Testament. When in fact they should Judaize the New Testament. By reading the Gospels as allegorical Jewish writings all the themes begin to fall in place. The Gospels are meant to be in agreement with the Torah, not argue with it.

Actually it's the opposite that the commentary is doing. Some Christians see "Jesus" scattered all over the Tanakh, but the commentary points out that Isaiah is not about Jesus at all but deals with events well before Jesus' time. OTOH, the commentary does state that Isaiah sets the "tone" for the Messiah to come and that Jesus is that person.

 

[julio.2]

Then why do you quote them?

I Love God and he's being done a Great Injustice. God doesn't speak much in the Bible, he teaches us there are False Prophets, we can tell if God has spoken to a Prophet by if what the Prophet says comes true. Isaiah is such a Prophet. One God, One Saviour the Creator. He announces a New Covenant and instruction to keep it. A jealous God.

I don't agree with any organized religion. I was blessed.
When I was 14 God lifted me off my bed by my stomach after praying , “God if there is a God make my stomach hurt”. When I was 30 and studying the word every day the Christian teachers were trying to convince me Jesus was God, the trinity thing. I could Not accept it. Laying on my bed with my Bible on my chest the brightest light hit my Bible and opened it to Isaiah 42 Behold my Servant. I believe Jesus is Servant to God, I believe that Isaiah was written for this time and time to come, just like it reads. I believe Servants are to come and set it all in order. Like he says “every knee will bow”.
*
How would you have interpreted the light hitting your Bible?
*
When I was in the light 3 Angels were playing instruments and singing this song to God.
Praise God the Creator of Heaven and Earth
Praise God all ye lands
Praise him for his Lovingkindness and tender mercies,
Praise God, Praise God, Praise God,
Praise God today,
Praise God tomorrow,
Praise God unto eternity,
Praise God from you,
Praise God from me,
Let God hear us sing Praise God

 

[roger1440]

Obviously that's your interpretation, which I don't share, and I agree with "Jerome's Bible Commentary" (Catholic) on this.

Correct me if I’m wrong. There is no room within Jewish theology to accommodate a god/man as told in the Christian orthodox interpretation of the canonical Gospels. If I’m right, then we have a little problem. Either the Christian orthodox is wrong or Jews do not know how to interpret their own scripture. If the Jews are wrong, it creates a sort of catch 22 problem, a problem that backs the most Christians into a corner with no means to escape. If Jews do not know how to interpret their own scripture, how can Christians trust the very concept of the Messiah? It is a Jewish idea. Maybe the Jews got that wrong too. Christian theology is based on Jewish ignorance of Jewish scripture. According to Christians, it takes a Gentile to explain Jewish scripture to Jews. Since Jews wrote the scripture itself, how can Gentiles trust any of it? It is absurd. Isn’t it possible the Gentiles didn’t interpret the Gospels correctly from the get go? Whoever wrote these Gospels were not your garden variety Jews. They were extremely well versed in scripture, educated and creative. They were written by Jews, for Jews, using Jewish theological ideas. The Gospels were never meant for Gentiles. The point I’m making is that the Gentiles never interpreted the Gospels correctly from the beginning. Much like existing scripture at the time, the Gospels use metaphors, symbolism and allegory to convey its message. The early Gentiles had read these books and interpreted them literal. I find it very peculiar that all the allegory ends with the Old Testament and the literalism begins with the New Testament.

 

[Andywelikandy]

The Way of Salvation by Almighty God's INITIATIVE is found SOLELY in the New Testament and nowhere else.
Here it is: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son [Jesus Christ], that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life [in heaven with Almighty God].
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world [of humanity] through him might be saved [from eternal Hell-fire].

Btw, all religions including the Roman Catholic religion teaches salvation from hell-fire through self-effort and sacrifice. It means you save yourself by your own efforts. Not so the Gospel [good news] of Jesus Christ.

Here it is:
Titus 3:5-7King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Can you see now that in the New Testament and even in the Old Testament it is Almighty God Who took/takes the INITIATIVE to save people because of His infinite Mercy.

All religions are looking for God, not so the Born Again Christian Faith. I was not looking for God before I was Born Again. Why? Because I was happy in my sinning under the influence/dictates of Satan who is named the "god" of this world in 2 Cor. 4:4.. I was doing what Adam and Eve did after they sinned. They ran away from their Creator-God. But what happened? The Creator-God came looking for them and then He provided the couple with His method of salvation of a blood sacrifice thru' which He provided coats of sheeps skin.

 

[Levite]

The Way of Salvation by Almighty God's INITIATIVE is found SOLELY in the New Testament and nowhere else.

Unless one isn't a Christian, and does not believe in the Christian scriptures, or in Jesus, or in the concept of salvation.

Btw, all religions including the Roman Catholic religion teaches salvation from hell-fire through self-effort and sacrifice.

Again, unless one is not a Christian, and thus does not believe in salvation, or in Hell.

Here it is:Titus 3:5-7

Quotations from Christian scripture mean nothing to non-Christians.

 

[Nada]

The Way of Salvation by Almighty God's INITIATIVE is found SOLELY in the New Testament and nowhere else.
Here it is: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son [Jesus Christ], that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life [in heaven with Almighty God].
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world [of humanity] through him might be saved [from eternal Hell-fire].

Btw, all religions including the Roman Catholic religion teaches salvation from hell-fire through self-effort and sacrifice. It means you save yourself by your own efforts. Not so the Gospel [good news] of Jesus Christ.

Here it is:
Titus 3:5-7King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Heaven is not for all.Only those anointed with holy spirit will have heavenly hope.Such as Jesus disciples and those who were at the Pentecost of 33C.E. Everyone else will reside on earth forever,as intended from the beginning, like Adam and Eve before the fall.Earth was meant to be inhabited.Heaven is for those who will rule with Jesus Christ.It is where God's government dwells.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

When it mentions those who have this hope in the holy scriptures,it speaks of those who are spirit born sons of God.
In this passage it refers to the anointed ones who walked with Christ.They will inherit eternal life like Jesus and will dwell in heaven.Notice too how they are acknowledging God the Almighty as the Father of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:3-4.
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,