Opinions on Spanking

[DallasApple]

drug companies like profits

$$$$$$$$$$$$

Love

Dallas

 

[prayersofjerusalem]

Its wrong....teach as Jesus taught

 

[Aquitaine]

Alceste, spanking and treating your child like crap or as if you don't care about them are two totally separate things.

Any child who's parents see them only as mere burdens will suffer.

A parent can still be kind and loving, and patient and "good", along with being a good role-model, even if they spank.

As for me thinking it's the norm to be treated like that because I had no experience with other parenting ways, actually I disagree - like I said I am the minority of all my childhood friends in that I was one who was spanked. I have seen other ways of parenting in my life, just as I'm sure every one of us here have.

Also, I'm not talking about spanking kids for the most minor of things, I'm talking about it being a last resort - after you've tried everything else.
Just like how Auto and Alceste have both admitted that put in that situation, they'd hit back.

IIRC Alceste also said she hit back to teach the child how it feels to be hurt/punched by someone, well, didn't I say we learn via pain? Atleast in most circumstances anyways.
But don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I think with every spank, a child's IQ will increase by 2. Also, the spanking is meant to be a discipline, a punishment, a barrier - the act of spanking alone isn't going to teach them anything (other than, don't disobey), they have to understand why they are spanked. It's not just a case of whacking your kid and expecting him to all of a sudden understand every issue of life.

Any child who was/is spanked, who feels that violence and hitting smaller or weaker individuals is acceptable, purely because he was spanked - means that the child simply does not understand why his parents spank him. Therefore perhaps his parents would need to lecture him more on why they do it.

Spanking isn't violence either, atleast in my opinion. It is (or atleast should be) a calm, controlled administration of discipline. It's not a mindless raging bloodlust strike at all, it's Tough Love.

Although, hey that's just my opinion. I'm sure you'll all disagree.

 

[Alceste]

Im just not going to hit him back.Especially because I think he is hitting me because my son and DIL hit him when they are angry.

At least he can have me ..that doesnt hit him even when Im dissapointed or hurt or angry with him.

I'd rather tell him..I wont allow him to sit in my lap or pick him up if he wants to hurt me.

Maybe he will learn those are MY bounderies and he will respect them because he will not want to lose the priveledge of sitting in my lap.

If you hit me..I will not let you close enough to me to do it.

Love

Dallas

Yeah, I think that sounds better than my way. I will try that next time.

 

[Alceste]

Alceste, spanking and treating your child like crap or as if you don't care about them are two totally separate things.

Any child who's parents see them only as mere burdens will suffer.

A parent can still be kind and loving, and patient and "good", along with being a good role-model, even if they spank.

As for me thinking it's the norm to be treated like that because I had no experience with other parenting ways, actually I disagree - like I said I am the minority of all my childhood friends in that I was one who was spanked. I have seen other ways of parenting in my life, just as I'm sure every one of us here have.

Also, I'm not talking about spanking kids for the most minor of things, I'm talking about it being a last resort - after you've tried everything else.
Just like how Auto and Alceste have both admitted that put in that situation, they'd hit back.

IIRC Alceste also said she hit back to teach the child how it feels to be hurt/punched by someone, well, didn't I say we learn via pain? Atleast in most circumstances anyways.
But don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I think with every spank, a child's IQ will increase by 2. Also, the spanking is meant to be a discipline, a punishment, a barrier - the act of spanking alone isn't going to teach them anything (other than, don't disobey), they have to understand why they are spanked. It's not just a case of whacking your kid and expecting him to all of a sudden understand every issue of life.

Any child who was/is spanked, who feels that violence and hitting smaller or weaker individuals is acceptable, purely because he was spanked - means that the child simply does not understand why his parents spank him. Therefore perhaps his parents would need to lecture him more on why they do it.

Spanking isn't violence either, atleast in my opinion. It is (or atleast should be) a calm, controlled administration of discipline. It's not a mindless raging bloodlust strike at all, it's Tough Love.

Although, hey that's just my opinion. I'm sure you'll all disagree.

Yes, I do disagree. I believe the research on the subject is very clear and unambiguous, and can't see any reason why anybody would dispute its conclusions, except to justify their own tolerance of parents smacking their kids, or perhaps justify past smackings by their own parents.

I didn't "admit" to inflicting pain on kids to teach a lesson, btw. I would never intentionally inflict physical pain on a child. I don't know if you've ever been on the receiving end of a hit from a three or four year old, but there's no pain involved, and the one time I've responded to a hit with a hit, it was in equal force. It was about as hard as a pat on the back for a job well done. The effectiveness of it lay in my saying afterwards "did you like that? no? then you shouldn't hit people, because it makes them feel like you do now" or something to that effect.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes, I do disagree. I believe the research on the subject is very clear and unambiguous, and can't see any reason why anybody would dispute its conclusions, except to justify their own tolerance of parents smacking their kids, or perhaps justify past smackings by their own parents.

Well with regards to this research,I don't buy in to it for two reasons:

1) I think it's impossible for any group of scientist or any methods, to be able to "obtain" accurate research onto the affects of something during a person's upbringing. Why? Because our upbringings are full of so many other aspects and factors which shape us in so many different ways, Hell, even being studying by scientists as a kid can have a severe mental affect on the child. Our childhoods are just far too complicated, and far to vast for anyone to be able to get any "accuracy" on things like spanking. Of course, if it was something like raping your children, then yeah, it's pretty obvious, but for spanking - well I just don't buy into it, plus it didn't do the previous generations any harm.

2) The affects put forward in the research can be "obtained" by practically anything in life, regardless of being spanked. Such disorders are a part of life itself, and many people who I know who weren't spanked have them, and the few that I know who were spanked, don't have them.

The effectiveness of it lay in my saying afterwards "did you like that? no? then you shouldn't hit people, because it makes them feel like you do now" or something to that effect.

Yes, that's the same thing I'd do, you also gave them the lecture afterwards, as to why you did it, this is what I mean, if a child grows up to think that violence is okay, purely because he was spanked as a child clearly doesn't understand, or wasn't lectured on why his parents spanked him.

Spanking is not violence. Don't get me wrong, parents can abuse the practice, but spanking can be very reasonable if done properly.

 

[monta]

Spanking is not violence. Don't get me wrong, parents can abuse the practice, but spanking can be very reasonable if done properly.

The next time someone cuts you off or jumps ahead of you in a queue you spank them and see how far the spanking is not violence defense gets you in court.

The simple fact is children are the only people or animal left that many people still feel they have a right to intentionally inflict pain on. There are other modes of discipline but they require time, commitment, patience , lots and lots of patience and self control, they don't give the illusion of instantaneous effect as spanking does, but the effects are longer lasting and proven to be beneficial as opposed to spanking which is proven to be detrimental.

 

[Alceste]

Well with regards to this research,I don't buy in to it for two reasons:

1) I think it's impossible for any group of scientist or any methods, to be able to "obtain" accurate research onto the affects of something during a person's upbringing. Why? Because our upbringings are full of so many other aspects and factors which shape us in so many different ways, Hell, even being studying by scientists as a kid can have a severe mental affect on the child. Our childhoods are just far too complicated, and far to vast for anyone to be able to get any "accuracy" on things like spanking. Of course, if it was something like raping your children, then yeah, it's pretty obvious, but for spanking - well I just don't buy into it, plus it didn't do the previous generations any harm.

So do you distrust the scientific method in general, or just in this particular case?

I have no reason to distrust it. It has so far proven to be the most effective way to learn about the world, and about ourselves. Some studies use methodology that makes their findings less trustworthy and are clearly driven by an ideological agenda (like anything by the Heritage Foundation), but in the case of studies like these, where the same results have been achieved by a large number of unrelated research teams in a number of demographics, and the findings published in peer reviewed psychology journals... well, let's just say that while your argument is coherent enough, it simply can not compete.

FYI, the studies show correlation, not necessarily causation. It's easy to mix these up - a lot of people do. Multiple, large studies show that children who are spanked have emotional problems in direct proportion to the frequency of their spankings. That doesn't prove that spankings - and not some other factor such as general meanness or Protestantism - are causing the emotional problems. You're right. But considering the fact that the correlation is so clear and direct, it is not a ringing endorsement of any parenting style that includes corporal punishment.

Spanking is not violence. Don't get me wrong, parents can abuse the practice, but spanking can be very reasonable if done properly.

IMO, spanking is violence. I'm not saying all parents who spank their kids are unrepentant foaming-at-the-mouth child abusers. My own mother spanked me once or twice, and she is a saint. Nevertheless, it is an act of physical aggression intended to cause pain, so violence is the correct term for it.

 

[Aquitaine]

The next time someone cuts you off or jumps ahead of you in a queue you spank them and see how far the spanking is not violence defense gets you in court.

The simple fact is children are the only people or animal left that many people still feel they have a right to intentionally inflict pain on. There are other modes of discipline but they require time, commitment, patience , lots and lots of patience and self control, they don't give the illusion of instantaneous effect as spanking does, but the effects are longer lasting and proven to be beneficial as opposed to spanking which is proven to be detrimental.

Spanking isn't punching lol! Not only that but the reason behind it, is Tough Love from the parent (unless the parent abuses it). You can't compare hitting random adults with a parent spanking children in order to help set them straight and give them discipline.

If an adult jumps infront of me in a queue, he probably wasn't spanked or disciplined enough, and the idea is to make it so that our children don't grow up to be like that.

 

[Alceste]

One of these comments reminded me - my man (the one whose mum is a psychoanalyst) used to have a friend over all the time who was, in the unanimous opinion of nearly everyone, the most screwed-up and maladjusted individual in town. The topic of corporal punishment came up one day and she famously said "My parents smacked me about all the time - didn't do me any harm".

 

[monta]

Spanking isn't punching lol! Not only that but the reason behind it, is Tough Love from the parent (unless the parent abuses it). You can't compare hitting random adults with a parent spanking children in order to help set them straight and give them discipline.

If an adult jumps infront of me in a queue, he probably wasn't spanked or disciplined enough, and the idea is to make it so that our children don't grow up to be like that.

If you perform the exact same action on two different people, both of whom do not consent to it, why is it, that one is assault and the other is love?

 

[Aquitaine]

So do you distrust the scientific method in general, or just in this particular case?

I have no reason to distrust it. It has so far proven to be the most effective way to learn about the world, and about ourselves. Some studies use methodology that makes their findings less trustworthy and are clearly driven by an ideological agenda (like anything by the Heritage Foundation), but in the case of studies like these, where the same results have been achieved by a large number of unrelated research teams in a number of demographics, and the findings published in peer reviewed psychology journals... well, let's just say that while your argument is coherent enough, it simply can not compete.

FYI, the studies show correlation, not necessarily causation. It's easy to mix these up - a lot of people do. Multiple, large studies show that children who are spanked have emotional problems in direct proportion to the frequency of their spankings. That doesn't prove that spankings - and not some other factor such as general meanness or Protestantism - are causing the emotional problems. You're right. But considering the fact that the correlation is so clear and direct, it is not a ringing endorsement of any parenting style that includes corporal punishment.



IMO, spanking is violence. I'm not saying all parents who spank their kids are unrepentant foaming-at-the-mouth child abusers. My own mother spanked me once or twice, and she is a saint. Nevertheless, it is an act of physical aggression intended to cause pain, so violence is the correct term for it.

Well I see plenty of children who arn't spanked who're aggressive, and show signs of violence. I think it must be caused by the parent/child relationship, or the personality of the parent/child, or the discilpine levels that leads children to be violent. As for the correlation of the mental affects, they're all things that practically all people (and children) experience through their lives, regardless of being spanked or not. Not only that but it would also depend on how the parents are administering the spanking, and to what degree, and how frequently.

I don't think that spanking should be the first resort, I just think it should always remain as a potential outcome, if the child ignores/disobeys all other attempts, along with this positive reinforcement. Of course, a mix is needed, and most importantly they need to understand why they're being spanked. Childhood is so complex that no one approach will solve anything, and taking just one away won't help anything either IMO.

I bet you're glad I'm not your Father xD

 

[Aquitaine]

If you perform the exact same action on two different people, both of whom do not consent to it, why is it, that one is assault and the other is love?

The same reason why if a Man gives a random Woman a present for no reason, it's creepy.
But if he gives it to his Wife, it's a present.

 

[Alceste]

The same reason why if a Man gives a random Woman a present for no reason, it's creepy.
But if he gives it to his Wife, it's a present.

What's the difference if you substitute "beating" for "present" in the same sentence?

 

[Autodidact]

Alceste, spanking and treating your child like crap or as if you don't care about them are two totally separate things.

Any child who's parents see them only as mere burdens will suffer.

A parent can still be kind and loving, and patient and "good", along with being a good role-model, even if they spank.

As for me thinking it's the norm to be treated like that because I had no experience with other parenting ways, actually I disagree - like I said I am the minority of all my childhood friends in that I was one who was spanked. I have seen other ways of parenting in my life, just as I'm sure every one of us here have.

Also, I'm not talking about spanking kids for the most minor of things, I'm talking about it being a last resort - after you've tried everything else.
Just like how Auto and Alceste have both admitted that put in that situation, they'd hit back.
.

But not because I need it as a last resort, only because I think it's appropriate to teach that particular lesson. That is, don't inflict violence, except in self-defense. If you do inflict violence, be prepared to receive it.

I don't think there are situations that need spanking as a last resort. As I keep saying, the parent has all the power. If you don't feed them, they don't eat. No need to resort to violence. It's counter-productive.

 

[Thief]

Just saw a news report about some guy going to jail cause he smacked some noisy brat...whose parent then called the police.
Looks like the guy is headed for some serious jail time.

 

[monta]

The same reason why if a Man gives a random Woman a present for no reason, it's creepy.
But if he gives it to his Wife, it's a present.

Is it creepy to give a random person a present ? Unless you are waiting in their bedroom for them to turn on the light or something, it is more odd than creepy

 

[Aquitaine]

What's the difference if you substitute "beating" for "present" in the same sentence?

Well then yeah of course it would be bad, but I don't think disciplining a child via spanking is on the same line as "beating" someone.

Also, it's not as if spanking should be used all the time, as a first resort, it's not as if it's like:

Child: "Daddy, I had a bad dream and can't sweeeep anymore."
Parent: "Why you little....... grrrrrrr!" <smack>

Or.....

Child: "But Daddy, I'm afraid of going to the park because Ms. Faulkner is always there with her big scary mean dog."
Parent: "OMG, What the...... ARGH!" <smack>

Or even......

Child: "Daddy, I wet the be...."
Parent: "You did WHAT!? ARGH! Stupid child, you're old enough not to wet beds anymore FFS, you're 5 God DAMN it!" <smack>

Believe it or not, there is actually some love on behalf of the parent who spanks the child. Many children who simply do not co-operate and exhaust every other option simply need spanking, I'm sorry - but some kids just need it!
Not only that, but unfortunately, life isn't all chocolates and roses, children have to feel the consequences of their severe actions, and need to experience what it's like to be put in their place.

Just as kids need to bump their heads when they run indoors.
Or trip up and graze their knees when they ran off without tying their laces.
Or fall off a bike if they're trying to ride no-handed.

In many ways, pain can be one of the best ways to remember things, and to get the message through. Unfortunately, life is like that.

Not only that but many parents who feel it is for the best to spank their children, are actually making a sacrifice themselves: because many don't want to have to do that, and they have to endure spanking their own children, purely for their childrens sake - because children need to be shaped and disciplined, and need to have that barrier that they cannot cross, and that's just life.


I'm not here to bash other parenting methods, as I think there's no real "right" way to raise kids, and that a mix is probably the best option, I'm here to defend the moderate use of spanking, in that I don't think it's some evil act, and I think it is a legitimate form of discipline. Not only that, but it has been in use for countless older generations who've had the privilage of actually having a childhood in the first place - and hey, it didn't do them any harm.

 

[Alceste]

Well then yeah of course it would be bad, but I don't think disciplining a child via spanking is on the same line as "beating" someone.

I guess that's where we differ. I would need to come up with a lot of rationalizations and justifications, and twist the literal meanings of certain words to convince myself that smacking a child on the butt is ethically or morally any different from smacking a child across the face, or punching a child in the stomach - even if it's all done in a "loving" way. I've never been one to accept things simply because they're generally considered socially acceptable. They need to pass a process of ethical reasoning as well.

Believe it or not, there is actually some love on behalf of the parent who spanks the child.

Oh, I believe it. I'm not claiming there's some lack of love in families who use corporal punishment. I'm observing that to use corporal punishment is to behave in a non-loving way, regardless of your actual feelings. The take-away lesson for the child is rejection, not good behavior.

Many children who simply do not co-operate and exhaust every other option simply need spanking, I'm sorry - but some kids just need it!

Never in my life have I met a child who "needed" to be spanked. I have known one extremely vexatious 10-year-old boy who "needed" to be thrown into a lake, but that's all.

Not only that, but unfortunately, life isn't all chocolates and roses, children have to feel the consequences of their severe actions, and need to experience what it's like to be put in their place.

You're simply wrong. Children do not "need" physical abuse, and they don't "need" to be put in their place. Never in my life have I met a child who needed such things. I think maybe you feel theneed to use violence and pain to exercise your authority over your kids if you have them. Or your hypothetical kids, if you did have them.

Not only that but many parents who feel it is for the best to spank their children, are actually making a sacrifice themselves: because many don't want to have to do that...

Then they just shouldn't do it. Numerous studies have shown it is strongly, directly correlated to the poor emotional health of children and ineffective in the long run for modifying behavior. If a parent genuinely doesn't want to smack their kids, they have a mountain of empirical evidence with which they can justify not doing it. And nothing that justifies doing it, except a vague impression of mysterious provenance that kids "need" such things. It's obvious to me that this desire to spank kids "for their own good" comes only from the fact that the parent doing the spanking was spanked himself. It has no other rationale, just like any form of abuse.

I'...it has been in use for countless older generations who've had the privilage of actually having a childhood in the first place - and hey, it didn't do them any harm.

How do you know?

 

[Thief]

You've gone to far Alceste.

I grew up in a bad neighborhood. Physical abuse came and went at such intervals, I hardly knew what to expect next. Home life and school were the same.

As I grew, up my involvement with the martial arts came and went.

Now, with gray hair and my family all grown up....

YES, a hands on approach can be appropriate.

But it takes experience, 'coming and going', to learn the technique and when to apply it.