Paris terrorists not Practicing Muslims at all

[Lyndon]

You can't really think that evidence of not following things in the Quran and hadiths means that someone hasn't read any of said texts.

A lot of Middle Easterners can read the words but can't understand classical Koranic Arabic, its very different from modern Arabic. And the ISIS recruits tend to be less educated so less likely to be able to read the Koran. Correct me if I'm wrong about this Gharib, or Fear God.

 

[leibowde84]

Another Muslim terrorist, woman suicide bomber, not practicing Islam;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-...home-of-suspect-female-suicide-bomber/6957370

This says that she converted 6 months ago. Just because her brother didn't know what she was reading doesn't mean that she never read the quran. You've gotta see that.

 

[leibowde84]

A lot of Middle Easterners can read the words but can't understand classical Koranic Arabic, its very different from modern Arabic.

You don't have to know Arabic to read the quran.

 

[Lyndon]

What is your point?? You seem to be arguing just for the point of arguing, you haven't contributed much if anything to the discussion.

 

[Lyndon]

The whole point is; These terrorists aren't representative of Muslim religion, quite the opposite, and none of the detractors have presented any evidence in this thread that these terrorists are representative of Islam

 

[Lyndon]

You don't have to know Arabic to read the quran.

Yes you do if your native language is modern Arabic, you have to learn classical Arabic as well to read the Koran. Unless you know English, and then you can read all the horrible translations of the Koran so often quoted on this site!!

 

[FearGod]

You don't have to know Arabic to read the quran.

Yes, you should learn Tagalog to understand the quran.

 

[Godobeyer]

This says that she converted 6 months ago. Just because her brother didn't know what she was reading doesn't mean that she never read the quran. You've gotta see that.

indeed they don't practice Islam (not religious) , i heard yesterday in French Channel , she was drink acohol , and I mean she was living Europeen style NOT Islamic style.

 

[Godobeyer]

You don't have to know Arabic to read the quran.

Quran in translation is not like Quran in Arabic

it's like translate a song from English (or otherwise) to Arabic .
it's lost it's beauty and drop in less sense .

 

[Gharib]

who cares if he can read it in arabic. Are you really claiming that every real muslim can read tge quran in arabic?! Vould he read it in any otger language?

You don't know anything about Islam, not even the basics.

In Islam, especially in an Islamic Khilafah (government) people are ranked by their knowledge. To have a commander of an army not know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic means there is something wrong. Knowing how to read it in Arabic and understanding it are two very different things, he didn't know how to read it let alone understand it.

And the Qur'an cannot be in any other language other than Arabic, this is the consensus of the scholars which is why we cannot perform our prayers in any language other than in Arabic . Everything else is simply a translation of the meaning, where the meaning can at times be lost and therefore is not the Qur'an that was revealed to our Prophet.

I am not arguing about who is a real Muslim and who isn't. There was a time when I didn't know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic but I have always been a Muslim. It is not a condition of being a Muslim to know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic.

I am arguing that these people are very far from Islam, as per your statement that you have not seen a single thing that they have done which contradicts Islam, it's teachings or practices. Good morning to you sir.

 

[Gharib]

I swear, every other comment adds another requirement for being a "real" muslim. I'm pretty sure most Christians haven't read the bible.

Almost all Christians don't follow their faith (texts) other than claim to be Christian, apart from maybe Mormons. They don't drink alcohol, don't eat pork, don't drink caffeine etc. Again not all of them do this but as a generalization they seem to follow the Bible and it's teachings.

 

[Glaurung]

I was simply trying to say that these two terrorists don't sound at all like they are Muslim fundamentalists

Of course, they're trolls willing to kill and die for a religion they only pretend to believe in. Will you stop and think about what you're claiming here.

The whole point is; These terrorists aren't representative of Muslim religion, quite the opposite, and none of the detractors have presented any evidence in this thread that these terrorists are representative of Islam

That's because you have your fingers in your ears and are explicitly choosing to deny it at all costs. The shot up cafes, the beheaded Christians, the murdered cartoonists and the endless fatwas. The hardline Islamist propaganda endemic all over global Islam. You pretend it's not there then accuse everyone who dares bring it up as a anti-muslim bigot. I guess when women are stoned for being raped that's not Islam either; despite such crap only happening in Muslims countries.

And you say you're an ex-Muslim. You do realise a large percentage of the world's Muslims think you should die for apostasy right?

But I guess that's not Islam either right?

 

[psychoslice]

You don't know anything about Islam, not even the basics.

In Islam, especially in an Islamic Khilafah (government) people are ranked by their knowledge. To have a commander of an army not know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic means there is something wrong. Knowing how to read it in Arabic and understanding it are two very different things, he didn't know how to read it let alone understand it.

And the Qur'an cannot be in any other language other than Arabic, this is the consensus of the scholars which is why we cannot perform our prayers in any language other than in Arabic . Everything else is simply a translation of the meaning, where the meaning can at times be lost and therefore is not the Qur'an that was revealed to our Prophet.

I am not arguing about who is a real Muslim and who isn't. There was a time when I didn't know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic but I have always been a Muslim. It is not a condition of being a Muslim to know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic.

I am arguing that these people are very far from Islam, as per your statement that you have not seen a single thing that they have done which contradicts Islam, it's teachings or practices. Good morning to you sir.

You may be right, but you have to admit that this religion has caused nothing but misery, how else do you think people should reacted to this horrible filthy belief system .

 

[Gharib]

I never claimed any of this. Please cite my specific comments.

I said that ISIS and those who follow follow it don't know anything about Islam, it's teachings or practices.

Then you said, it's not like they don't read the Qur'an and Hadith.

And I mentioned an example from Nigeria where a commander of Boko Haram, who like ISIS claim of having established a Khilafah, doesn't know how to read Arabic nor know how to pray the 5 daily prayers.

And then you said it's not a condition to know how to read the Qur'an in Arabic?

How could you not see that you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Gharib]

You may be right, but you have to admit that this religion has caused nothing but misery, how else do you think people should reacted to this horrible filthy belief system .

Go back in history about 50-70 years. You will see something that's called "leave us alone you little s_ _ _"

You have covered your pathetic attack against my faith by pretending to ask a polite question. Muslims have done nothing to no one. And this religion has over a billion followers, if it was Islam that preaches evil then you wouldn't be able to hide from us. It wouldn't be a little ISIS that you would be fighting against. To brandish a religion and the majority of it's followers as 'horrible and filthy' for the actions of a misguided few is willful ignorance and a very pathetic world view to have as a human being.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The whole point is; These terrorists aren't representative of Muslim religion, quite the opposite, and none of the detractors have presented any evidence in this thread that these terrorists are representative of Islam

These terrorists self-identify as Muslims and quote the Quran, so they are Muslims. Why are you in denial?

 

[Gharib]

I self-identify as the US government and I say Germany is a terrorist country. How do I qualify??

 

[FearGod]

You may be right, but you have to admit that this religion has caused nothing but misery, how else do you think people should reacted to this horrible filthy belief system .

The belief system isn't filthy but the people who see it to be so "are".
For example Islam forbids adultery, but the filthy people want to be ****** day and night,
just as one example of many.

 

[FearGod]

These terrorists self-identify as Muslims and quote the Quran, so they are Muslims. Why are you in denial?

What they quoted from the quran ? teach us Mr. scholar.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The thing is that Islam has nothing to do with whom are called Muslims, Hitlers followers were Christians,
are all Christians Hitler.

In other words, Islam is completely disconnected from Muslims? Are you really trying to argue that the actions of today's Muslims are not influenced by Islam at all? I think your own actions and arguments are influenced by Islam, and I don't think I'm wrong to think so.

Pakistan isn't an Arabic country but a Muslim country and they're at war with Taliban.

What does Taliban have to do with my argument?

And yes, Pakistan is a Muslim country. I said I was citing free election and poll results particularly and not exclusively from the Arab world.

Hazem Salah doesn't represent the views of the Egyptians, scholars do say nonsense all the time, so what.

He doesn't represent the views of all Egyptians, but a good portion of Egyptians support Islamists. The majority of voters voted for an Islamist parliament and an Islamist president in free elections after the 25th of January revolution.

And many think and believe that bin Laden is working to the US and i think you know that.

I made a thread about the kind of people who believe that bin Laden was working for the U.S.:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-arab-world-the-perspective-of-an-insider.181640/

They're Muslims but i don't agree about flogging a person because of his views.

Al Razi wrote a book against the quran, was he flogged

On the Quran, al-Razi said:

You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. ... By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"?!

So the people who are for flogging Raif Badawi are Muslims. Good thing you disagree with them, but that doesn't change the fact that there are also many Muslims who agree with flogging him.

By the way, look up Bashar ibn Burd.

But this person doesn't represent Egypt.

No one represents Egypt; there are only people who represent(ed) the majority of Egypt, like Morsi did when he was elected by a majority, and the fact of the matter is that the majority did elect Islamists to represent them. I think you know what the beliefs of Islamists are like.

The fact is the Egyptians are looking for the food and the peace of mind.

Yeah, and they apparently think that Shari'a is the way to achieve that. That's quite unfortunate.

No, they regard it as an Egyptian art but yes they look sexy with the semi naked dress.

Are you trying to tell me that what I keep hearing, reading, and seeing in my own country is wrong? Seriously, if you are going to try to paint a different picture of Muslims, at least don't try to tell people that the observations before their very eyes are wrong. Acknowledging reality would be a good start to change things for the better.

And what the quran says if we don't want to flog the Adulterers will that lead us to the hell.
the caliphate Umar bin al khatab cancelled the punishment of cutting the hands of the thieves and which
opposes the quran, so what

There are certain conditions for imposing a moratorium on punishments, but that doesn't mean they are canceled forever.

These are a few verses that scholars and Islamists keep citing to support their position that they must implement Shari'a into state law:

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

(Source of translation.)

The majority of scholars interpret these verses to mean that Muslims must rule their countries with Shari'a. The Muslims who voted for Islamists apparently agreed with them or at least didn't mind the concept of Shari'a's being made into state law.

The Muslims world needs a leader similar to Umar and Saladin

Do you think a leader like Umar and Saladin would give atheists, homosexuals, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., their rights and freedoms, or would he punish people for premarital sex, "practicing homosexuality," attacking or criticizing religion, and promoting secularism, among other things? I would totally support an Islamic leader if he or she were to provide these minorities with their complete rights and freedoms.