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Photogallery: Lebanon now
- Thread starter Djamila
- Start date
Djamila
Bosnjakinja
Buttercup said:
Apparently television news is the Americans main source of information about the conflict:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=israel+american+media
Djamila
Bosnjakinja
That's quite an unusual response. If statistics shows most Americans get their news from television, so be it. It's not saying all Americans do.
If most Bosnian women don't wear veils, feel free to say so. My niece won't have a hissy fit because statistics show most don't and she does.
If most Bosnian women don't wear veils, feel free to say so. My niece won't have a hissy fit because statistics show most don't and she does.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Show me stats on where all Europeans get their main news? I'm willing to wager that any country that can afford TV's get a majority of their news from that source. It's the easiest. And Americans probably have access to more television stations than you as well.Djamila said:
But, you digress from my statement a few posts back about why Americans may be apathetic toward the Middle East crisis at times......
It's been going on forever! We are tired of it and we can't win. I am weary, weary, weary of the United States being expected to be Superman. And I am extremely tired of the criticism when we do intervene.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The muslims in Lebanon and Palestine are not about to disappear, now nor in the future.
Those that fight in their name, of necessity live amongst them.
A vast majority of Israeli soldiers live in civilian communities, complete with their personal equipment and small arms.
If it is legitimate for israel to bomb civilians because fighters live amongst them;
equally it would be legitimate for their own civilian areas to be bombed.
Eventually The USA will be so involved elsewhere that it will not be possible for it to give Israel priority support.
Israel can only fight wars on a limited time scale before both fuel and munitions become scarce.
Up to now it has managed to use blitzkrieg tactics and establish a position where it is able to withdraw and rebuild.
In world historical terms, no country has been able to maintain that balance for ever.
The time will come when the tide turns, if they have not found a way to establish peace they will lose the subsequent war.
Is this what they want for their future generations.
Those that fight in their name, of necessity live amongst them.
A vast majority of Israeli soldiers live in civilian communities, complete with their personal equipment and small arms.
If it is legitimate for israel to bomb civilians because fighters live amongst them;
equally it would be legitimate for their own civilian areas to be bombed.
Eventually The USA will be so involved elsewhere that it will not be possible for it to give Israel priority support.
Israel can only fight wars on a limited time scale before both fuel and munitions become scarce.
Up to now it has managed to use blitzkrieg tactics and establish a position where it is able to withdraw and rebuild.
In world historical terms, no country has been able to maintain that balance for ever.
The time will come when the tide turns, if they have not found a way to establish peace they will lose the subsequent war.
Is this what they want for their future generations.
Djamila
Bosnjakinja
Well, Ezzedean, as you can surely see - achieving peace is going to be an uphill battle. When people view the Israeli government and army not as a part of this conflict but as the equivalent of some force outside of it that is working towards peace, then we'll not have any progress.
If people condemn only Israeli aggression and not that of the Palestinians, or vice versa, then there is no hope of them being part of the solution. When people can not only tolerate, but also defend the complete destruction of Lebanon as a response to Hezbollah's attack, what does that say about the situation in the world?
When two Israeli soldiers being kidnapped allows them to feel compassion, but the slaughter of more than 800 Lebanese civilians does not, then there is no hope for them being a part of the solution. All we can do is remain true to our faith and not allow ourselves to use our faith as a weapon in desperation.
You should check out Checkpoint Watch, Jews Against the Occupation, Abraham's Vision, and other Jewish/Muslim organizations, Ezzedean. It will keep you from blaming Israelis for this conflict and will certainly keep you from developing negative associations towards Jews. The best way to help, I think, is to support those Israeli groups who are actively trying to achieve peace, and not victory. Who are actively trying to bring an end to their government's policies, instead of openly or through ignorence supporting the occupation and colonization of occupied land.
It's also a safe way to ensure the money you send to help Palestinians actually reaches them. I imagine, though, this year I will give most of my zakat to Lebanon. I want to go there so badly. When the Bosnians in Lebanon arrived in Sarajevo after they were evacuated, their stories were just so heart-breaking. And Jakov Finci was right there, I'm so proud of him and all he does.
And that's all we can do. We can't get involved in these stupid debates in which we're not even speaking from the same level depth of knowledge and level of understanding. There are those who will support Israel against all reason, same as there are those who will support Palestine with the same devotion. With them, there is no hope of finding a solution.
All we can do is join hands with those who want peace, and make sure we include as many Muslim, Jewish, and Christian groups as we can. Just as the Lebanese are now united more than ever, we all have to be united. This won't continue forever. Evil never wins, it will eventually be overcome. We just have to take as much of the burden off the shoulders of those involved as we can.
If people condemn only Israeli aggression and not that of the Palestinians, or vice versa, then there is no hope of them being part of the solution. When people can not only tolerate, but also defend the complete destruction of Lebanon as a response to Hezbollah's attack, what does that say about the situation in the world?
When two Israeli soldiers being kidnapped allows them to feel compassion, but the slaughter of more than 800 Lebanese civilians does not, then there is no hope for them being a part of the solution. All we can do is remain true to our faith and not allow ourselves to use our faith as a weapon in desperation.
You should check out Checkpoint Watch, Jews Against the Occupation, Abraham's Vision, and other Jewish/Muslim organizations, Ezzedean. It will keep you from blaming Israelis for this conflict and will certainly keep you from developing negative associations towards Jews. The best way to help, I think, is to support those Israeli groups who are actively trying to achieve peace, and not victory. Who are actively trying to bring an end to their government's policies, instead of openly or through ignorence supporting the occupation and colonization of occupied land.
It's also a safe way to ensure the money you send to help Palestinians actually reaches them. I imagine, though, this year I will give most of my zakat to Lebanon. I want to go there so badly. When the Bosnians in Lebanon arrived in Sarajevo after they were evacuated, their stories were just so heart-breaking. And Jakov Finci was right there, I'm so proud of him and all he does.
And that's all we can do. We can't get involved in these stupid debates in which we're not even speaking from the same level depth of knowledge and level of understanding. There are those who will support Israel against all reason, same as there are those who will support Palestine with the same devotion. With them, there is no hope of finding a solution.
All we can do is join hands with those who want peace, and make sure we include as many Muslim, Jewish, and Christian groups as we can. Just as the Lebanese are now united more than ever, we all have to be united. This won't continue forever. Evil never wins, it will eventually be overcome. We just have to take as much of the burden off the shoulders of those involved as we can.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Easy answer... don't interveneButtercup said:
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
First by spending as much effort into it as they put into fighting.kai said:
secondly acting in a way over a sufficient period of time to gain the trust of their opponents.
That when they say they will do something thy will hold by it... not till just the next election.
At the moment no one believes Israel wants peace on any terms, other than by complete military domination of the area.
Peace is a process... That process has not yet started.
When the Palestinians and others, see that Israel is sincere the process could start.
Israel has made offers in the past, but they were not believed nor trusted.
ayani
member
Buttercup said:
you know what? i think there's a huge difference between "whining" and "crying out for help / crying out for and end to said 'help' ".
and it's not like the u.s. does the exact same thing every time it goes in somewhere for a given reason. administrations change, interests change, and tactics change. people don't whine so much as suffer, and suffer terribly.
if the u.s. governemnt is, at any time, going to enter another country under the pretext of helping that country's people, it needs to use care, planning, compassion, and common sense. i don't see it using any of those things lately. not when it entered Iraq, not in Guantanamo or in Iraqi prisons (and please don't tell me those are the acts of a few "bad apples"- commands for abuse come from on high. it is always planned and meaningful abuse. look at the prison and police tactics of apatheid south africa for examples) and not in stalling and stalling over a badly needed cease fire which would have ::saved lives:: immediately and given the region time to cool its heels.
if an entity as powerful, diverse, and sprawling as the u.s. military is going to have a hand in a region or a war, it needs to do better than its been doing. as that doesn't seem possible, yes, i think it would be best if we endured the "whining" and reduce our presence abroad.
