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Present arguments for atheism
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
The definitions you reference also indicate that you are just talking rubbish. Truth is related to sincerity, and spiritual, and has a subjective element in common understanding.
You got no argument.
Poor Mo, it is the truth that London is the capital of England whether or not you find that fact important.
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
You are just talking rubbish. All rubbish in order to reject subjectivity. You want to reject subjectivity, but you don't want to look stupid. You need the word truth, you need the word love, but you can lose the term God and soul. You objectify the terms truth and love, and discard the terms God and soul, leaving no true subjective terms.
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
It's still just transparant rejection of subjectivity.
link please
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
You provided the link.
No matter what you subjectively might think it's the truth that London is the capital of England.
pretty, important, favorite etc. are all subjective terms. i used official definitions, your just blindly and baselessly asserting things for no justifiable reason.
i did above
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
I think it's a fact, and truth.
i did and it backed my point , not yours.
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
You referenced truth as associated to sincerity among others, your reference doesn't support your idea.
The only definition in your reference that is consistent with what you say is that of Christian Science. They also define truth just as fact. And obviously Christian Science is also just trying to reject subjectivity in favor of objectivity.
It's a fact and truth no matter what you subjectively might think. It would be fact and truth even if you didn't think so.
sincerity of action has nothing to do with what you are claiming.
There is no real truth in subjectivity, due to it being subjective and this is only within the mind of each person, ie, being subjective.
Truth is supported by facts and facts are provable. There is perceived truth, this is a truth that is established until the facts prove it to be in error, then the perceived truth changes to exclude the error and include the fact. The truth in anything is reveled as facts are gathered, the "truth" is always true and has always been true, it is just finding the facts that support it.
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
See, outright rejection of subjectivity. When somebody finds a woman beautiful, then that is opinion, not fact, yet it is truth, and according to this truth they may throw their life upside down entirely.
Your example is flawed, When someone finds a woman beautiful that is completely subjective, you may want to hold it as truth but that in and of itself does not make it the truth. You may find others who agree with your perception of beauty, but that will only stand until someone comes along who is more beautiful. These are all subjective concepts, they only exist within the mind of the observer, your concept of beauty may be different than mine, so then how is truth gleaned from this. Your working from that aspect of a false premise that YOU get to define what beauty is, and that is no how the truth is formulated.
It is their opinion that the woman is beautiful.
It is a fact that they find the woman beautiful.
It is true that they find the woman beautiful.
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
The argument atheists have is to appropiate the word truth for objectivity, to use it interchangeably with the word fact, which is because atheists reject subjectivity. Then I argued that truth has an essential subjective element of importance apart from the fact element, and now I argue that truth can also be used entirely subjectively in referring to beauty for example.
Subjective terms refer to agency, the spiritual domain, they don't only exist in the mind of the observer. But all atheists reject any and all proper subjective terms, because then the atheist house of cards falls down. There is not a single atheist who even tries to accomodate subjectivity, they all argue to appropiate truth to objectivity solely. It is as plain as day that all atheists reject subjectivity.