Pro Life or Pro Choice?

[Nyingjé Tso]

I know dozens of women who are depressed because they started a family they were not psychologically, emotionally or financially prepared for with a father they don't particularly care for.

This is the very reason I am happy to have a choice and want to keep it.

Be forced to have a baby in your 20, without a stable job a reliable source of income, without being psychologically ready for it. Because, let's be honest, it is a huge emotional deal for a woman to see her body change and be prepared to give birth. I do not feel psychologically ready to bear a child in me, and I know that if I am forced to do so I would completely loose my mind. I wouldn't love the child. I wouldn't have the financial means to make the child happy. And I wouldn't be happy either because my career require a lot of time and dedication, and it would be comepletely broken forever if I were to be pregnant now.

There are tons of other young womens that feels the same way. It can even lead to very bad outcome for some womens, it can lead to a child being unhappy or even abused.

And don't tell me "then don't have sex until you're ready to assume the outcome". I do what I want in my bed, and I certainly enjoy it. That's the most basic freedom that can't be taken away.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If there were such a thing, surely a loving god would stick it into a wanted fetus rather than let it go to waste.

Ridiculous. Going by that logic, why wouldn't God not allow those who will become murder victims to be born?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In that case it probably wouldn't matter if the soul were born. Even if it did; as long as the soul exists doesn't mean it will never have a physical life on earth. If there's a soul pre-birth it really wouldn't matter if a body it was going to take over was aborted, it will simply be an unusable shell.

As long as the soul exists pre-birth; it will eventually be born into a body, and if not it still has a life of its own without a body which I often heard would be so much more peaceful than living on earth.

In my opinion, there isn't a person until after birth, that the 'soul' or 'person' doesn't exist until it is made. They only exist as concepts, but it's useless to view them that way - there is an infinite number of unborn babies. But at the same time there is zero unborn babies because of the mere fact the baby was not yet created

In Christianity, the human person is viewed as body+soul and your soul is created specifically for a specific body to inhabit. So when a fetus is aborted, you're killing the body and the soul will go to the afterlife. It doesn't go into another body, according to traditional Christian theology.

 

[Valjean]

We consider abortion wrong, because we consider the very act of abortion to be the moral equivalent of murder; except perhaps in extenuating circumstances.

What extenuating circumstances are we talking about?

What another woman do with her body doesn't concern me. What I do with mine doesn't concern them.

But isn't the contention about what a woman does with someone else's body?

 

[Alceste]

Ridiculous. Going by that logic, why wouldn't God not allow those who will become murder victims to be born?

Why indeed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why indeed.

That's a subject for another thread.

 

[Alceste]

That's a subject for another thread.

yeah, the eternal, unanswerable and unavoidable question posed by the concept of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. We've had many such threads, but the question has never been answered.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

yeah, the eternal, unanswerable and unavoidable question posed by the concept of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. We've had many such threads, but the question has never been answered.

Or maybe there are answers but people don't want to accept them or don't understand them. I don't have a conflict between the two, personally.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

But isn't the contention about what a woman does with someone else's body?

It is not "someone" until months have passed already. Of course if a woman want to abort at 9 months pregnancy, there is a problem. Why ? Because 9 months, the baby is almost fully formed and have operational system. Then okay, it is someone else body.

When you are pregnant for some weeks, for one, two months, it is nothing more than a hunk of cellular tissue. bits of stuff, not functionning, not breathing, not thinking.

I agree that knowing this hunk of cellular bits of stuff hold the potential to be a future someone. There are laws to prevent womens to abort when a certain time is passed, where these bits of stuff have become a baby. Until this time and developement phase have passed, it is nothing, thus we should have the freedom to choose for the moment we have this time when it is "not a someone".

For me, it is more sad to see a children hated, not cared of, a mother psychologically broken, that can possibly abuse her child, having financial difficulties, than to see a woman conciously aborting while the baby is not developped because she perfectly know that she can't have the means to do her duties to a child. Then later, she choose to have a children she will be prepared for and where she will have the financial mean to make him happy.

This is only my opinion, I understand others also and do not want to battle with anyone on this subject. We all have our opinion and experiences, let's acknowledge them and live our ways peacefully

I will not oppose pro life if they want. It is their choices and they have their reason. However, please, I just ask the same regarding wanting to have a choice. I am not a mindless abominable child to be murderer, I want the best for my possible future childrens. I am afraid and saddened by the "agressive" pro life in USA that are sometimes very closed minded and rude to others that think different. We should be at least respectful of each other.

 

[Glaurung]

And to your mind, that explains why there appears to be within the Catholic community more outrage against 3,700 abortions than against 19,000 starvations? If so, interesting.

Well, if you ever find yourself outraged over any particular killing or injustice, hell, any issue; know that such outrage is unjustified because there's always poverty in Africa. Both are bad, but entirely separate issues.

Sorry if I don't find this argumentation very convincing.

What extenuating circumstances are we talking about?

Medical. If a pregnancy in some way could cause a serious long term complications or even mortality, then in my view the moral culpability of the abortion may be significantly reduced and even tragically permissible. I don't have any specifics as I'm not knowledgeable enough on all the potentialities of maternal complication.

The church condemns it in all circumstances, while I respect her judgement on this, I personally think such a view may be a little too absolute.

 

[s2a]

Just dropping back in.

I notice the unscientific polling results make it about three to one favoring Pro-choice.

Have we now, at last, finalized the debate?

 

[Thruve]

yeah, the eternal, unanswerable and unavoidable question posed by the concept of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. We've had many such threads, but the question has never been answered.

Oh boy, can you or frank provide me with a link. Im so very curious to read such threads.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Or Nancy Pelosi .

How about Robin Williams dressed up as Nancy Pelosi?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm pro-choice in that I don't think anyone has the right to force someone else to do something with their own body against their will.

I'm pro-life in that I think it's irresponsible and damaging for people to have children they can't or don't want to care for.

 

[BSM1]

How about Robin Williams dressed up as Nancy Pelosi?

I am gouging my mental eyes out!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh boy, can you or frank provide me with a link. Im so very curious to read such threads.

Just for "problem of evil".

 

[Son of The Gods]

Pro-Choice. So many so call "pro-life" supporters are not truly pro-life, they are pro-birth. A vast majority don't give a RIP after the child is born.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Pro-Choice. So many so call "pro-life" supporters are not truly pro-life, they are pro-birth. A vast majority don't give a RIP after the child is born.

I think I understand but to what system or to whom are you referring?

 

[StarryNightshade]

I am politically pro-choice and am comfortable with laws relating to abortion in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

I am personally, pro-life and passionately so.

I'm similar to this.

I hate abortion and believe that people need to be more aware that their actions will have consequences.

However, I realize that lack of sexual education and healthcare are huge factors in this; and that, abortions are going to happen anyway, so women ought to have the opportunity to safe and accessible abortions. In addition to that, I believe that the aforementioned healthcare and sexual education need to be more universally accessible to women (and men) as well.

Basically, I guess I'm both pro-life and pro-choice?

 

[Brickjectivity]

A lot of people who say they are Pro-life are actually various flavours of Pro-choice, and there turns out to be some overlap. The Republicans are secretly a pro choice party. They say they are pro life, but then what they call life turns out to be pro choice when you examine it closely. The most obvious case was Mitt Romney's web site versus what the Republican web site said about him. Then there is the representative who was recently outed for being very outspoken against pro choice legislation who had secreted encourage two abortions (Scott DesJarlais). Essentially the pro-life legal factions appear not very anti-abortion. I notice John Boehner removed stern pro lifers from the Budget committee the moment he got a chance. So much for pro life Republicans.