Prove Magic?

[1137]

I just have to throw in here that as a Pagan and a Druid, I do not agree with defining magic/spellcraft as something that goes against nature. In my view, there is no such thing as going against nature, as everything is nature. Notions of magic/spellcraft that involve "conquering" nature are downright antithetical to my tradition.

This is why I try to specify mechanistic nature, as in one aspect of nature.

 

[Quintessence]

This is why I try to specify mechanistic nature, as in one aspect of nature.

I do not know what "mechanistic" nature is. Could you explain?

 

[1137]

I do not know what "mechanistic" nature is. Could you explain?

I mean the aspect of nature that is entirely mechanical. If you drop a mentos in a coke, the coke with do it's thing. Humans, on the other hand, are capable of avoiding mechanical outcomes. Depression doesn't need to lead to suicide for example, because we can use the human mind to treat it with therapy and medication.

 

[Quintessence]

I mean the aspect of nature that is entirely mechanical. If you drop a mentos in a coke, the coke with do it's thing. Humans, on the other hand, are capable of avoiding mechanical outcomes. Depression doesn't need to lead to suicide for example, because we can use the human mind to treat it with therapy and medication.

Huh. I guess I either don't believe in "mechanistic" nature or believe all nature is "mechanistic," without exception. "Mechanistic" is not the word I would use, though.

 

[Acim]

Is there something you or I could do to prove that magic exists to me?

Yes.

I would really really love to believe that it does, but I am a skeptic at heart.

That's nice to know.

 

[rusra02]

Is there something you or I could do to prove that magic exists to me?

I would really really love to believe that it does, but I am a skeptic at heart.

Whenever the Bible mentions magic, it does so unfavorably. For example, "You must not look for omens or practice magic." (Leviticus 19:26) I believe Satan is the source of such practices, and the seemingly innocent facade of some magic practices hide their sinister origin.

 

[1137]

Whenever the Bible mentions magic, it does so unfavorably. For example, "You must not look for omens or practice magic." (Leviticus 19:26) I believe Satan is the source of such practices, and the seemingly innocent facade of some magic practices hide their sinister origin.

For most of us this is just more encouraging.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

But that is a useless and incorrect definition of magic "Magic: the power of influencing the course of events by using supernatural forces."
What is 'power' ? Magic(k) is more than influencing events, and 'supernatural forces' takes this discussion into the role playing realm . . . have fun floundering around with your Ouija board definition there Merlin!

Its the English definition, if you don't like it make up your own word.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Okay, so in the OP, you say:


You provide no other context or explanation, and ask for proof.

Later, you get ticked off because the responses you're getting aren't the proof you want, and people are questioning what it is you mean. So, NOW you provide some--but by no means all--of the necessary background to understand what you are asking for in this thread.



Finally, in post #55 you tell what it is you're really wanting everyone to prove--a definition of magic that does not match what the people you are asking for feedback from ACTUALLY understand or do.

If you had mentioned at the beginning, 1) your definition of magic, 2) that you have tried different kinds of magic, and 3) maybe described how you perceived that they failed for you (because quite frankly, there is NOTHING in any of your posts that would make anyone think you actually know anything about or have actually tried magic), and finally, 4) not responded to everyone in such a dismissive, confrontational manner...you might have actually gotten a much better discussion and some good information, right up front, instead of nothing but an ongoing argument.

Forgive me for assuming that when I say magic, I mean the actual definition of the word and not a jargon one.

 

[Quintessence]

*cackles madly while doing "Satanic" Druid meditations, since apparently all magical practices are "sinister"*

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Whenever the Bible mentions magic, it does so unfavorably. For example, "You must not look for omens or practice magic." (Leviticus 19:26) I believe Satan is the source of such practices, and the seemingly innocent facade of some magic practices hide their sinister origin.

Quoting scripture form a book I think is fiction is not going to help your case.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

*cackles madly while doing "Satanic" Druid meditations, since apparently all magical practices are "sinister"*

I agree that most magic (at least here in the US) is not done with sinister intent.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Yes.



That's nice to know.

Can you specify?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Whenever the Bible mentions magic, it does so unfavorably. For example, "You must not look for omens or practice magic." (Leviticus 19:26) I believe Satan is the source of such practices, and the seemingly innocent facade of some magic practices hide their sinister origin.

BTW by all of the various definitions of magic that everyone on this thread has used.

Christians, Yeshua, angels, Yahweh, etc.

All do magic according to the claims in your religion.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Forgive me for assuming that when I say magic, I mean the actual definition of the word and not a jargon one.

And you, who knows so much about magic, and has tried magic of so many traditions with friends/acquaintances (and it didn't work), didn't realize that while you were adhering to a standard general dictionary definition, all the sources you've used to learn so much about magic, and your friends with whom you practiced magic, and the people who post in the Magic DIR here (because they know about and practice magic of various traditions) were talking about magic in a way that doesn't match that standard dictionary definition? Really? You didn't notice that before you posted?

I'm sorry; I don't think you're that stupid.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

And you, who knows so much about magic, and has tried magic of so many traditions with friends/acquaintances (and it didn't work), didn't realize that while you were adhering to a standard general dictionary definition, all the sources you've used to learn so much about magic, and your friends with whom you practiced magic, and the people who post in the Magic DIR here (because they know about and practice magic of various traditions) were talking about magic in a way that doesn't match that standard dictionary definition? Really? You didn't notice that before you posted?

I'm sorry; I don't think you're that stupid.

Yeah lets ask 10 Wiccan witches what magic is and get one coherent answer?

Or better yet lets ask 10 Chaotes what magic is and get one coherent answer?

Now If I wanted you to prove your definition of magic I would say can you prove beenherebeforeagain's definition of magic.

When I put up a word in the title I would expect you to assume it is the standard English definition unless told otherwise.

 

[Erebus]

Magic should be able to do something that cannot be happenstance in a way that cannot currently be explained by known science.

Interesting. Firstly, I have to ask why you feel that magic should be beyond the ability of current scientific knowledge to explain? Many of us here have already expressed that we feel that some or all magic can be explained. I'm trying to understand your line of thought here.

Secondly, I'm of the opinion that you could regard any result from performing magic as being due to happenstance if you were so inclined. Did you have something in mind that couldn't be regarded in such a way?

 

[1137]

Its the English definition, if you don't like it make up your own word.

You're so caught up on definitions rather than the concepts behind them. Why don't you try what you pretended you were here for and listen to those who know what they're talking about? You won't answer questions, you won't accept our explanations, you refuse to acknowledge that words can have many definitions, and you've been over all either hostile or simple non engaging, brushing everything off instead of addressing us. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US?!

Supernatural magic doesn't exist. All magicians here seems to agree. You're right, isn't that all that matters to you?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Interesting. Firstly, I have to ask why you feel that magic should be beyond the ability of current scientific knowledge to explain? Many of us here have already expressed that we feel that some or all magic can be explained. I'm trying to understand your line of thought here.

Secondly, I'm of the opinion that you could regard any result from performing magic as being due to happenstance if you were so inclined. Did you have something in mind that couldn't be regarded in such a way?

1) Because otherwise it is not in any way true to the original meaning of the word.

2) Here is an example, would it be possible for you to tell me the male Alaskan timber wolf I had as a child's name? If you could the chances of it being happenstance are astronomically lower than the chances of it not.

 

[Quintessence]

Secondly, I'm of the opinion that you could regard any result from performing magic as being due to happenstance if you were so inclined. Did you have something in mind that couldn't be regarded in such a way?

We're supposed to be able to cast the spell "burning hands" from the 3rd edition Dungeons and Dragons players handbook. Unfortunately, in a past life we failed our admissions test into the Tower of Magi, and were reborn in a reality where the laws of reality do not allow us to cast the spell "burning hands" or even a simple cantip like "acid splash." Thus, we are left envisioning our past lives through the magic of hollywood and theater, and failing to satisfy people like the OP. Woe is us!