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Question to Bahais. The Maitreya.

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Allah test His servants. Those that say they submit also embrace the tests that such a declaration requires.

How else is the Truth determined from the false?

Quran 29:2 "Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?"

"Even as He hath revealed: ‘Do men think when they say “We believe” they shall be let alone and not be put to proof?’" Bahá’u’lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 8-9

"..The Almighty hath tried, and will continue to try, his servants, so that light may be distinguished from darkness, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, guidance from error, happiness from misery, and roses from thorns..." Bahá’u’lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 8-9

Regards Tony

To me, I believe the test is that God is very clear and provides insights, that he leaves no excuse to follow unclear things in our heads, when you can always build on clear insights. You build on proofs and signs. Not saying there aren't going to be unclear things in our heads, but, this is despite Quran being a clear book full of clear signs. If we follow what is unclear, it's our fault. And if we look towards Ahlulbayt (a), they clarify Quran and bring bright signs.

When Rasool (s) says "I am leaving you... Quran and my Itra Ahlulbayt...Whoever I am Mawla of, Ali is Mawla of", it's very clear, but people play language games.

You see, the test is just to be sincere and not twist what God and his Messenger (s) said.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I know, and they share hadiths with some much one sided bias among themselves. But inshallah, who knows, only God knows the hearts.

They quote hadith from their own website.

Brother. Once, this one person said that Abha in Buddhism is Abha in arabic. Unbelievably, mindnumpingly ignorant because they are reading both words in English. Both are pronounced absolutely differently in their original languages, and they mean completely different things.

The thing is pretending to know both languages while reading the transliteration is bogus. This is so dishonest.

The problem remains, that some people know these languages, and they teach them, and there are people who actually learn them.

No one has to agree with each other as a rule. But people can be honest in their claims.

Salam.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I think you should first quote the exact statement in the Tipitaka where the so called Mithri speaks about the Kingdom of God.

And the so called article is absolutely bogus. Ignorant. And its very small. Not comprehensive. This is good for the blind. ;)

Why dont you first substantiate your claim to Maitreya and the kingdom of God as you claimed with the direct quote from Tipitaka?

Thanks.

I replied to that in a previous post.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
To me, I believe the test is that God is very clear and provides insights, that he leaves no excuse to follow unclear things in our heads, when you can always build on clear insights. You build on proofs and signs. Not saying there aren't going to be unclear things in our heads, but, this is despite Quran being a clear book full of clear signs. If we follow what is unclear, it's our fault. And if we look towards Ahlulbayt (a), they clarify Quran and bring bright signs.

When Rasool (s) says "I am leaving you... Quran and my Itra Ahlulbayt...Whoever I am Mawla of, Ali is Mawla of", it's very clear, but people play language games.

You see, the test is just to be sincere and not twist what God and his Messenger (s) said.

I hope that all works out for you, for me I like that it is a test, one can never really know themselves, until they are tested.

All the best regards Tony
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
@Link and @firedragon

It is obvious that Allah in the Quran did not want to reveal it explicitly when Day of Judgement comes, due to a wisdom.

However, Allah gives two possibilities in the Quran regarding the Time.
In one case He says, it comes after a period of 50,000 years (see verse 7:4)

In another instance Allah says after a 1000 years period.




As @Link pointed out, Allah in Quran in one instance says, Day of Judgment may be near or far (21:109).

So, Allah in Quran is making allusion saying it can be far (50,000 years), or it may be near (1000 years).

Remembwr Allah in Quran says this is a clear Book!, now if one says, it is not clear if it is 1000 years, or it is 50,000 years, or it is not clear what this means he is ascribing a lie to Quran, because this means Quran is not clear in this regard!

But, a true believer knows Quran is clear when we read the Quran carefully and think about its verses, the matter becomes clear, through its signs, hints and allusions.

Notice that, the Muslims generally think of Day of Judgement as something far, based on the 50,000 years verse.

As Allah says in verse 7:6,

"Truly they see it as far off"

Notice, This verse can not be about disbelievers, as they do not even believe in Judgement Day. It is about Muslims who believe there is a Judgement Day, but it is far!

Then in the next verse Allah gives us a Hint, and makes it clear, that the far Day (50,000 years) is not the actual period, but the one which is near is the Time of Judgement:


"While we behold it nigh" 7:7

Remember there are quite some Hadithes that prophet said, Day of Resurrection is close.


The word "far" in these verses is allusion to the 50,000 years, and the word "near" is an allusion to the "1000 years".


Think of it this way. Allah did not want to say it explicitly when it comes to those who are not really believers or are not reading the Quran carefull, because as Allah says in the Quran,, He misguides those who do not think about verses of the Quran...
Thus, He says it might be far (50,000), or could be near(1000). Then through allusion and hints, that only becomes clear after reading Quran carefully, He tells us that, it is the near Time, not the far Time.


Now, one thinks that, if after a 1000 years, Judgement Day was supposed to come, why we are still on earth? Why all those overwhelming events, such as resurrection of Dead did not happen.

For that, I refer you to Quran:

"Warn them of the Day of Regret, when everything will have been decided; and [yet], they are heedless, and they do not believe." 19:39


Notice that this verse tells us that even after Judgement Day comes, they still Heedless and unaware.

Why?, because the Day of Judgement is not what people understood bases on literal interpretation of Quran. Quran in many verses clearly says, that "Dead" symbolically means disbelievers or those who are misguided. "Alive" are those who are guided. Now, Day of Resurrection is a Day that Dead becomes alive. I hope you know now what this means, and why after Day of judgment still people could be unaware!

Now, there are Hadithes it is said that People of Islam have a lifespan of 1000 years, or Allah gathers them in 1000 years.

@Link, I know now you will accuse me of sophistry.
@firedragon, I know, you reject those Hadithes, and accuse me of fallacy.
So, let's see if my prediction is true. :)
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

The first expression: Seeing it far off means they don't see it happening (improbable). And we see it immanent meaning we see it definitely happening.

The second thing: Ascension takes 1000 years, and day of judgment is 50 000 years. This is not contradictory but compliments it as most of the day is after people are already returned to God and risen before him.

The third: we been through that verse before and so you keep emphasizing on a meaning refuted by a lot of Quran.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I hope that all works out for you, for me I like that it is a test, one can never really know themselves, until they are tested.

All the best regards Tony
To me, Quran says people with hard hearts and disease in their hearts take verses out of their context and place in Quran. This is what Bahais also do with day of judgment verses.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
To me, Quran says people with hard hearts and disease in their hearts take verses out of their context and place in Quran. This is what Bahais also do with day of judgment verses.

Link, a Baha'i gives their life under our One God, as a world citizen, for all humanity, in trustworthiness and truthfulness, in naught but Love.

God help us all if we are accused of hard hearts.

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Link, a Baha'i gives their life under our One God, as a world citizen, for all humanity, in trustworthiness and truthfulness, in naught but Love.

God help us all if we are accused of hard hearts.

Regards Tony

I believe you don't give God a chance to speak clearly. This is only possible by having no fear of God in this regard.

Remember army of Yazid convinced themselves they love God and fear God and are killing Imam Hussain (a) because he is a rebel.

Telling ourselves we love and fear God is one thing, reality is another. That, as you said, we are tested.

To you, it's about believing unclear meanings, to me, it's about sticking to clear signs and meaning of Quran and not twisting words of God out of it's place.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
@Link and @firedragon

It is obvious that Allah in the Quran did not want to reveal it explicitly when Day of Judgement comes, due to a wisdom.

However, Allah gives two possibilities in the Quran regarding the Time.
In one case He says, it comes after a period of 50,000 years (see verse 7:4)

In another instance Allah says after a 1000 years period.




As @Link pointed out, Allah in Quran in one instance says, Day of Judgment may be near or far (21:109).

So, Allah in Quran is making allusion saying it can be far (50,000 years), or it may be near (1000 years).

Remembwr Allah in Quran says this is a clear Book!, now if one says, it is not clear if it is 1000 years, or it is 50,000 years, or it is not clear what this means he is ascribing a lie to Quran, because this means Quran is not clear in this regard!

But, a true believer knows Quran is clear when we read the Quran carefully and think about its verses, the matter becomes clear, through its signs, hints and allusions.

Notice that, the Muslims generally think of Day of Judgement as something far, based on the 50,000 years verse.

As Allah says in verse 7:6,

"Truly they see it as far off"

Notice, This verse can not be about disbelievers, as they do not even believe in Judgement Day. It is about Muslims who believe there is a Judgement Day, but it is far!

Then in the next verse Allah gives us a Hint, and makes it clear, that the far Day (50,000 years) is not the actual period, but the one which is near is the Time of Judgement:


"While we behold it nigh" 7:7

Remember there are quite some Hadithes that prophet said, Day of Resurrection is close.


The word "far" in these verses is allusion to the 50,000 years, and the word "near" is an allusion to the "1000 years".


Think of it this way. Allah did not want to say it explicitly when it comes to those who are not really believers or are not reading the Quran carefull, because as Allah says in the Quran,, He misguides those who do not think about verses of the Quran...
Thus, He says it might be far (50,000), or could be near(1000). Then through allusion and hints, that only becomes clear after reading Quran carefully, He tells us that, it is the near Time, not the far Time.


Now, one thinks that, if after a 1000 years, Judgement Day was supposed to come, why we are still on earth? Why all those overwhelming events, such as resurrection of Dead did not happen.

For that, I refer you to Quran:

"Warn them of the Day of Regret, when everything will have been decided; and [yet], they are heedless, and they do not believe." 19:39


Notice that this verse tells us that even after Judgement Day comes, they still Heedless and unaware.

Why?, because the Day of Judgement is not what people understood bases on literal interpretation of Quran. Quran in many verses clearly says, that "Dead" symbolically means disbelievers or those who are misguided. "Alive" are those who are guided. Now, Day of Resurrection is a Day that Dead becomes alive. I hope you know now what this means, and why after Day of judgment still people could be unaware!

Now, there are Hadithes it is said that People of Islam have a lifespan of 1000 years, or Allah gathers them in 1000 years.

@Link, I know now you will accuse me of sophistry.
@firedragon, I know, you reject those Hadithes, and accuse me of fallacy.
So, let's see if my prediction is true. :)

Given that Baha'u'llah says we should offer what has been revealed with Wisdom and understanding, I too should take more time to source my answers, as you have done.

The problem is my attention span, which is that of a gnat and I have never, never been a patience person. Thus my lesson in life.

In saying that, Baha'u'llah also says we must wait and hold on to any wisdom gained, until we find ears willing to hear, such a quandary.

All the best regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Given that Baha'u'llah says we should offer what has been revealed with Wisdom and understanding, I too should take more time to source my answers, as you have done.

The problem is my attention span, which is that of a gnat and I have never, never been a patience person. Thus my lesson in life.

In saying that, Baha'u'llah also says we must wait and hold on to any wisdom gained, until we find ears willing to hear, such a quandary.

All the best regards Tony

He is building on unclear conjecture. Not building on what is clear. This is forbidden per Quran 3:7.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I believe you don't give God a chance to speak clearly. This is only possible by having no fear of God in this regard.

Remember army of Yazid convinced themselves they love God and fear God and are killing Imam Hussain (a) because he is a rebel.

Telling ourselves we love and fear God is one thing, reality is another. That, as you said, we are tested.

To you, it's about believing unclear meanings, to me, it's about sticking to clear signs and meaning of Quran and not twisting words of God out of it's place.

Are you now offering you do know my heart? ;)

As In another post, in this same OP, which I liked, you offered only Allah knows our hearts.

A healthy fear of Allah is paramount to strong Faith Link.

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Are you now offering you do know my heart? ;)

As In another post, in this same OP, which I liked, you offered only Allah knows our hearts.

A healthy fear of Allah is paramount to strong Faith Link.

Regards Tony

You might have some sincerity, is what I mean. But you definitely lack fear of God and have a hard heart or would not twist Quranic words of out their place.

I tell the same to a person who says "Ali is Mawla of " means "Ali is friend of". They lack total fear of God when they twist the words of Nabi (a) out of their place. Sunnis convince themselves Ulil-Amr are rulers and Shiites are twisting it to be about Imams (A) when context shows a comparison to Ahlulbayt of Ibrahim (a) and emphasis on the authority that Ahlulbayt of Ibrahim (a) was given, with "from you" meaning we too be given an Ulel-Amr.

All divisions of Muslims can cease if people fear God and put God's words in their proper place in Quran.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
He is building on unclear conjecture. Not building on what is clear. This is forbidden per Quran 3:7.

That may be the case for you Link, but for me, the Word of God has never been offered as clear as God has now given it through Baha'u'llah.

That is the quandary we face. But that does not prevent us being brothers under One God Allah and serving each other and all humanity.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
You might have some sincerity, is what I mean. But you definitely lack fear of God and have a hard heart or would not twist Quranic words of out their place.

Are you aware this could be just as applicable to you?

Personally my fear of God contains an understanding that if I see bad in any person, it is just a reflection of my own heart, it is another flaw I still have to remove from my own self.

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That may be the case for you Link, but for me, the Word of God has never been offered as clear as God has now given it through Baha'u'llah.

That is the quandary we face. But that does not prevent us being brothers under One God Allah and serving each other and all humanity.

Regards Tony

Per Quran, good hearts of understanding follow clear signs while those with misguidance in their hearts follow unclear. The solution is so easy, other verses show, it's all about decontextualizing that hard hearts do and that Satan casts regarding it.

It's very easy soften heart and put verses in their place.

This is all we need to do. Little reflection goes a long way to contextualize Quran with respect to itself. All God asks us is to give fair treatment to his words and apply contextualization rules we apply to all speech of other humans.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Are you aware this could be just as applicable to you?

Personally my fear of God contains an understanding that if I see bad in any person, it is just a reflection of my own heart, it is another flaw I still have to remove from my own self.

Regards Tony

We can't both be good per Quran. We can both be bad, but not both good. The people of understanding follow clear signs of Quran.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That may be the case for you Link, but for me, the Word of God has never been offered as clear as God has now given it through Baha'u'llah.

I don't know how clear or unclear Baha'allah words are, but I know they don't compare to Quran. Quran towers way above in eloquence, style, knowledge, wisdom, and guidance.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
We can't both be good per Quran. We can both be bad, but not both good. The people of understanding follow clear signs of Quran.

Then you to yours and me to mine. I will do naught but good to you as a brother Link.

Regards Tony
 
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