Question to Bahais. The Maitreya.

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

Your explanation makes sense, this might be also how a day with God in high council takes a thousands years, while, that day takes place with us as one day, and so it's about relative time, one with God's forces in high council (slow) and with us fast:

وَيَسْتَعْجِلُونَكَ بِالْعَذَابِ وَلَنْ يُخْلِفَ اللَّهُ وَعْدَهُ ۚ وَإِنَّ يَوْمًا عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ كَأَلْفِ سَنَةٍ مِمَّا تَعُدُّونَ | They ask you to hasten the punishment, though Allah will never break His promise. Indeed a day with your Lord is like a thousand years by your reckoning. | Al-Hajj : 47


Just like time was relative with companions of the cave.

While this verse says:

تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ | The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose span is fifty thousand years. | Al-Ma'aarij : 4


This means day of judgment, and so it's talking about two different things.

@MyM

Amr from Shuraih bin Ubaid from Amr Bakai from Kaabul Ahbar that he said:
“The Caliphs are Twelve. When their demise approaches and a virtuous
generation comes, Allah will prolong their lives. Such has Allah promised this
Ummah. Then he recited:
وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُم فِي الْأَرْضِ كَمَا
اسْتَخْلَفَ الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ
“Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He
will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those
before them…” (Surah Nur 24:55)
He said: “Likewise did Allah, the Exalted, to the Children of Israel. It is not difficult that He may gather this Ummah in a day or half a day. And a day before your Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

So, according to this Tradition, the 1000 years, was period that Allah gathers Ummah of Muhammad, just as He gathered Jews, when He sent Jesus.

So, why Muslims do not accept this tradition?

 

[MyM]

He claimed he was door to Mahdi because of Shaykhi movement to connect to Imam Mahdi and was power hungry. He then claimed because he had no proof in form of miracles, and nothing to prove his way, that his works were Revelation from God. Then went on to claim he is the Mahdi.

jeepers really kinda reminds me of the Mormon's Creator, Joseph Smith.

 

[Link]

yes a day can be the space of 1000 in relation to Allah's timing...very true...guess I was thinkin somethin else ...dunno why I went to creation part but that was correct too lool

What you said makes sense as well. Allahu Alim.

 

[Link]

jeepers really

You can compare his text to Quran. As well as Bahai text. I am sure you will say heaven and earth is the difference, Quran towers above their works.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Bahai text makes Quran and Sunnah into pure sophistry. It doesn't make it clear, it makes everything into riddles. God is the refuge from people who religion is a game and play thing.

That is understandable. The people of the Book say the same thing about Quran, when the Quran claims, Muhammad was prophesied in the Torah and Gospel.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@MyM and @Link

Can you show me, where in the Torah and Gospel Muhammad description can be found. This is what Quran says:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful" 7:157

 

[Link]

That is understandable. The people of the Book say the same thing about Quran, when the Quran claims, Muhammad was prophesied in the Torah and Gospel.

Except they ignore the clear in that regard as well. But that's a story for another day.

 

[MyM]

@MyM and @Link

Can you show me, where in the Torah and Gospel Muhammad description can be found. This is what Quran says:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful" 7:157

Can you bring me the Torah of Moses and I will show you.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Who is this Bab???? Where is this related to in Islam? Mohammad pbuh didn't mention him nor did Allah in the Quran.

The time of the day of judgement, NO ONE KNOWS THE TIME, and yes, through authenticated ahadith, it is known and signs appear before the day of judgement is to happen. There are minor, major signs we are to look out for and then the hour will be upon us before we know it. No one is disputing those ahadith that you quoted. They are authentic. It's how you are interpreting the aya that needs to be addressed.

And Allah knows best

I QUOTE from Revelations of the Bab:

"He Who hath revealed the Qur’án unto Muḥammad, the Apostle of God, ordaining in the Faith of Islám that which was pleasing unto Him, hath likewise revealed the Bayán, in the manner ye have been promised, unto Him Who is your Qá’im, 1 your Guide, your Mihdí, 2 your Lord, Him Whom ye acclaim as the manifestation of God’s most excellent titles. Verily the equivalent of that which God revealed unto Muḥammad during twenty-three years, hath been revealed unto Me within the space of two days and two nights. However, as ordained by God, no distinction is to be drawn between the two. He, in truth, hath power over all things."

 

[Link]

@MyM and @Link

Can you show me, where in the Torah and Gospel Muhammad description can be found. This is what Quran says:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful" 7:157

Quran alludes to this

Ahmad (Gospels) research comforter and original word in that regard and what Quran and Sunnah explain holy spirit to be (the Imam of time) and what it said about Elyas being holy Imam between Isa and Mohammad. They go through loopholes, not us, for that.To me it's clear and I made thread about this.

Torah - Prayer for "the one who God will send" by Musa in conjunction with Twelve Princes from Ismail offspring and being a Prophet like Musa. Haroun to Isa are all successors of Musa and are not an founder. Founder has to be someone like Mohammad (s) with his own successors. Together, it's clear, and they not us go through loopholes for this. The clear is in favor of Mohammad ("s). The one who God will sent will not remove literal knots on tongue of Musa, and so this was metaphorical.

And one more Gospels talks about a Prophet to come who Isa was not.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Can you bring me the Torah of Moses and I will show you.

If the Torah of Moses is not available why the Quran says you can find Muhammad in it?
When did Allah say Torah of Moses is lost?

 

[MyM]

I QUOTE from Revelations of the Bab:

"He Who hath revealed the Qur’án unto Muḥammad, the Apostle of God, ordaining in the Faith of Islám that which was pleasing unto Him, hath likewise revealed the Bayán, in the manner ye have been promised, unto Him Who is your Qá’im, 1 your Guide, your Mihdí, 2 your Lord, Him Whom ye acclaim as the manifestation of God’s most excellent titles. Verily the equivalent of that which God revealed unto Muḥammad during twenty-three years, hath been revealed unto Me within the space of two days and two nights. However, as ordained by God, no distinction is to be drawn between the two. He, in truth, hath power over all things."

No Muslim will take that as being from Allah swt. Millions upon Millions who know the Quran by heart, will never let that get by. (just sayin)

 

[MyM]

If the Torah of Moses is not available why the Quran says you can find Muhammad in it?
When did Allah say Torah of Moses is lost?

Because Allah already said it has been corrupted by the hands of men. You will never be able to bring the original. He is smarter than you and everyone on this earth. Men add and delete as they wish.

However, if you actually read through some of the bible passages, in Isiah, you will find many similarities pointing towards Mohammad pbuh. But christians will never believe

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No Muslim will take that as being from Allah swt. Millions upon Millions who know the Quran by heart, will never let that get by. (just sayin)

Yet they Killed the Bab as many Muslims did embrace what was offered by the Bab from Allah.

14:9 "Have you not heard about those who went before you, the people of Noah, Ad, Thamud, and those who lived after them, known only to God? Their messengers came to them with clear proof, but they tried to silence them, saying, ‘We do not believe the message with which you were sent. We have disturbing doubts about what you are asking us to do.’"

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

However, if you actually read through some of the bible passages, in Isiah, you will find many similarities pointing towards Mohammad pbuh. But christians will never believe

There are passages in the old and New Testaments about Muhammad, Ali, the Bab and Baha'u'llah,that Muslims will not believe.

Regards Tony

 

[MyM]

Yet they Killed the Bab as many Muslims did embrace what was offered by the Bab from Allah.

14:9 "Have you not heard about those who went before you, the people of Noah, Ad, Thamud, and those who lived after them, known only to God? Their messengers came to them with clear proof, but they tried to silence them, saying, ‘We do not believe the message with which you were sent. We have disturbing doubts about what you are asking us to do.’"

Regards Tony

أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ نَبَؤُا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ قَوْمِ نُوحٍۢ وَعَادٍۢ وَثَمُودَ ۛ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِنۢ بَعْدِهِمْ ۛ لَا يَعْلَمُهُمْ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ ۚ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُهُم بِٱلْبَيِّنَـٰتِ فَرَدُّوٓا۟ أَيْدِيَهُمْ فِىٓ أَفْوَٰهِهِمْ وَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّا كَفَرْنَا بِمَآ أُرْسِلْتُم بِهِۦ وَإِنَّا لَفِى شَكٍّۢ مِّمَّا تَدْعُونَنَآ إِلَيْهِ مُرِيبٍۢ
Yes, this aya is talking about those from before The people in their time disbelieved and they got punished and will be. Doesn't mean that you take another besides what Allah has said in the Quran.

We are told in the Quran that Allah has said he completed his religion and Mohammad was the last of his messengers (those who bring revelations). So, that aya has no standing on what you are trying to say

 

[MyM]

There are passages in the old and New Testaments about Muhammad, Ali, the Bab and Baha'u'llah,that Muslims will not believe.

Regards Tony

Who is this Bab you are saying? It is NOT mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ نَبَؤُا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ قَوْمِ نُوحٍۢ وَعَادٍۢ وَثَمُودَ ۛ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِنۢ بَعْدِهِمْ ۛ لَا يَعْلَمُهُمْ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ ۚ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُهُم بِٱلْبَيِّنَـٰتِ فَرَدُّوٓا۟ أَيْدِيَهُمْ فِىٓ أَفْوَٰهِهِمْ وَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّا كَفَرْنَا بِمَآ أُرْسِلْتُم بِهِۦ وَإِنَّا لَفِى شَكٍّۢ مِّمَّا تَدْعُونَنَآ إِلَيْهِ مُرِيبٍۢ
Yes, this aya is talking about those from before The people in their time disbelieved and they got punished and will be. Doesn't mean that you take another besides what Allah has said in the Quran.

We are told in the Quran that Allah has said he completed his religion and Mohammad was the last of his messengers (those who bring revelations). So, that aya has no standing on what you are trying to say

The history of faith shows that men with their interpretations, just persecute the Messengers.

So I choose to stay with the Bab, that brought the dawn of the Day of God in year AH1260, or AD1844.

Peace be with you, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who is this Bab you are saying? It is NOT mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah.

Elijah always comes first. Sorry off to work.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ نَبَؤُا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ قَوْمِ نُوحٍۢ وَعَادٍۢ وَثَمُودَ ۛ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِنۢ بَعْدِهِمْ ۛ لَا يَعْلَمُهُمْ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ ۚ جَآءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُهُم بِٱلْبَيِّنَـٰتِ فَرَدُّوٓا۟ أَيْدِيَهُمْ فِىٓ أَفْوَٰهِهِمْ وَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّا كَفَرْنَا بِمَآ أُرْسِلْتُم بِهِۦ وَإِنَّا لَفِى شَكٍّۢ مِّمَّا تَدْعُونَنَآ إِلَيْهِ مُرِيبٍۢ
Yes, this aya is talking about those from before The people in their time disbelieved and they got punished and will be. Doesn't mean that you take another besides what Allah has said in the Quran.

We are told in the Quran that Allah has said he completed his religion and Mohammad was the last of his messengers (those who bring revelations). So, that aya has no standing on what you are trying to say

We are told in the Quran that we will meet with the Lord on the Day Judgment.
So, Judgment Day has come.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Because Allah already said it has been corrupted by the hands of men. You will never be able to bring the original. He is smarter than you and everyone on this earth. Men add and delete as they wish.

However, if you actually read through some of the bible passages, in Isiah, you will find many similarities pointing towards Mohammad pbuh. But christians will never believe

Allah never said that the Text of Torah is corrupted. He said in Quran that, they corrupted the meanings.
Moreover, if you think Torah is corrupted tell me, why Allah did not protect the Torah or at least the parts of it that talked about Muhammad so, the Jews and Christians can know and see today with their own eyes that Muhammad was in the Torah and then they can believe in Quran?