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Question to Bahais. The Maitreya.

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
No Muslim will take that as being from Allah swt. Millions upon Millions who know the Quran by heart, will never let that get by. (just sayin) :)
Very similar to what Christians did, when Muhammad was sent. They rejected Muhammad.

Now tell me, why do you think the Bab was not sent by Allah, when there are so many Traditions about the Mahdi, and Day of Judgement?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
We are told in the Quran that we will meet with the Lord on the Day Judgment.
So, Judgment Day has come. :)

Make logical sense as well.

As it is all people, from all faiths that now face that same Judgement, it is universal and another reason to support the unity of all humanity. We need to help each other.

Regards Tony
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Quran alludes to this

Ahmad (Gospels) research comforter and original word in that regard and what Quran and Sunnah explain holy spirit to be (the Imam of time) and what it said about Elyas being holy Imam between Isa and Mohammad. They go through loopholes, not us, for that.To me it's clear and I made thread about this.

Torah - Prayer for "the one who God will send" by Musa in conjunction with Twelve Princes from Ismail offspring and being a Prophet like Musa. Haroun to Isa are all successors of Musa and are not an founder. Founder has to be someone like Mohammad (s) with his own successors. Together, it's clear, and they not us go through loopholes for this. The clear is in favor of Mohammad ("s). The one who God will sent will not remove literal knots on tongue of Musa, and so this was metaphorical.

And one more Gospels talks about a Prophet to come who Isa was not.
Right, so, almost no Christian or Jew knew that Muhammad is in the Torah and Gospel, until Muhammad came and revealed it. Most of them Of course they reject that Muhammad is in Quran.
So, the previous Books (Torah and Gospel) contain prophecies which alludes to Muhammad.
Likewise Quran alludes to future Revelations but this was not known by most Muslims until the Bab and Baha'u'llah came and revealed it.
For example the Two Trumpets of God are allusion to two Revelations.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
We are told in the Quran that we will meet with the Lord on the Day Judgment.
So, Judgment Day has come. :)


Do you know what is to happen on the day of judgement???? Should I explain a little about it? It hasn't come yet and so many things have not taken place yet.

“Indeed in that (there) is a sure lesson for those who fear the torment of the Hereafter. That is a Day whereon mankind will be gathered together, and that is a Day when all (the dwellers of the heavens and the earth) will be present”
Hood 11:103

People will be gathered on the Day of Resurrection barefoot, naked and uncircumcised. It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet pbuh said: “You will be gathered barefoot, naked and uncircumcised.” Then he recited, “As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise binding upon Us. Truly, We shall do it” al-Anbiya’ 21:104


I don't think you understand what the Day of Judgement consists of. It has not taken place.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
.
Lol. I will never forget. You were talking about "manifestations" in the Quran. I asked you for a verse. You googled the word "manifestation", got the first arabic word for it off google translator, and you said "zahara" is it.
Quran promises meeting with Lord on the Day of Resurrection. That means God will be manifested on the Judgement Day, hence the word "zahir".
Now tell me, Quran says no one can see God. Then How can people meet with God, when no one can see God? Have you thought about it?
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Do you know what is to happen on the day of judgement???? Should I explain a little about it? It hasn't come yet and so many things have not taken place yet.

“Indeed in that (there) is a sure lesson for those who fear the torment of the Hereafter. That is a Day whereon mankind will be gathered together, and that is a Day when all (the dwellers of the heavens and the earth) will be present”
Hood 11:103

People will be gathered on the Day of Resurrection barefoot, naked and uncircumcised. It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet pbuh said: “You will be gathered barefoot, naked and uncircumcised.” Then he recited, “As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise binding upon Us. Truly, We shall do it” al-Anbiya’ 21:104


I don't think you understand what the Day of Judgement consists of. It has not taken place.

There are many things to happen. Humanity is to meet with God. The earth shall shine with light of God. Two trumpets to be blown, Deads are to be resurrected, the Moon and sun not give light, and many more including Allah gathering humanity.

The Quran says, the meaning of the Day of Resurrection is no known until it comes.
Now that Day of Resurrection came, we now know, all of these had meanings.

God cannot be seen, so, by meeting God, It meant that, humanity receives a new Revelations, through new Messengers.
God gathers humanity, means through new Revelations God invites humanity to the Religion (and gathers them in one Faith). The Dead, means the misguided ones, and "alive" means "believers", as can be seen in other verses, thus Resurrection of Dead means by this new guidance those disbelievers (who are like dead), become alive (guided).
The sun and moon have symbolic meanings, all of their meanings are revealed in Bahai scriptures.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
There are many things to happen. Humanity is to meet with God. The earth shall shine with light of God. Two trumpets to be blown, Deads are to be resurrected, the Moon and sun not give light, and many more including Allah gathering humanity.

The Quran says, the meaning of the Day of Resurrection is no known until it comes.
Now that Day of Resurrection came, we now know, all of these had meanings.

God cannot be seen, so, by meeting God, It meant that, humanity receives a new Revelations, through new Messengers.
God gathers humanity, means through new Revelations God invites humanity to the Religion (and gathers them in one Faith). The Dead, means the misguided ones, and "alive" means "believers", as can be seen in other verses, thus Resurrection of Dead means by this new guidance those disbelievers (who are like dead), become alive (guided).
The sun and moon have symbolic meanings, all of their meanings are revealed in Bahai scriptures.

Your interpretations no one one following the Quran and Sunnah will agree with you.

When Allah gathers mankind and all his creations, jinn also animals, that is when EVERYONE will have their taste of justice. It isn't to start a new religion. It isn't about gathering to join in one religion. It is about JUDGEMENT. Of what you have earned on this earth, how you spent your life on this earth...either pleasing your Creator or displeasing Him.

Resurrection of the bodies, means every dead soul that has been gone for centuries will be standing barefoot, naked and uncircumsized in front of their Creator. It is a day of horror for multitudes. A pregnant lady will automatically will miscarry. This day has NOT been done with yet, nor will it say how you are describing it. It is called the Day of Judgement for a reason and that is every single person on this earth will know what it has done.

zilzal.jpg
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
Very similar to what Christians did, when Muhammad was sent. They rejected Muhammad.

Now tell me, why do you think the Bab was not sent by Allah, when there are so many Traditions about the Mahdi, and Day of Judgement?

First of all, we know the traditions that explains who the mehdi will be and his name even! It isn't Bab :) We know what will take place and what will happen. We just haven't seen all the minor signs as of yet. Major ones are the ones that show the Day of Judgement is near. No one knows the hour it will happen. There are sayings about the Mehdi and Mohammad pbuh even said his name and he explained how he will emerge into being. So your "version" is no where coinciding with the Quran or Sunnah. :)
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Right, so, almost no Christian or Jew knew that Muhammad is in the Torah and Gospel, until Muhammad came and revealed it. Most of them Of course they reject that Muhammad is in Quran.
So, the previous Books (Torah and Gospel) contain prophecies which alludes to Muhammad.
Likewise Quran alludes to future Revelations but this was not known by most Muslims until the Bab and Baha'u'llah came and revealed it.
For example the Two Trumpets of God are allusion to two Revelations.

Of course most of them reject. That's what make them Christian or Jewish but it has nothing to do with God being deceptive. Some of it has to do with how they corrupted text and interpretation. But it doesn't mean when shown, they can't recognize it.

However, day of judgment has nothing to do with a new Prophet. That interpretation makes God deceptive. This is a big difference. Yours would be God doing sophistry and purposely deceiving people.

Of course, if you guys said Quran was corrupted and there is missing Prophecies, that would put you in a better position. But saying Quran is not corrupted put you in a position that you can't justify your faith. And so your two Prophets couldn't explain seal of Prophets adequately and the day of judgment interpretation was silly and not even needed. It makes you guys look silly for following them too.

Of course we reject Baha'allah like you reject the Maitreya.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Your interpretations no one one following the Quran and Sunnah will agree with you.

When Allah gathers mankind and all his creations, jinn also animals, that is when EVERYONE will have their taste of justice. It isn't to start a new religion. It isn't about gathering to join in one religion. It is about JUDGEMENT. Of what you have earned on this earth, how you spent your life on this earth...either pleasing your Creator or displeasing Him.

Resurrection of the bodies, means every dead soul that has been gone for centuries will be standing barefoot, naked and uncircumsized in front of their Creator. It is a day of horror for multitudes. A pregnant lady will automatically will miscarry. This day has NOT been done with yet, nor will it say how you are describing it. It is called the Day of Judgement for a reason and that is every single person on this earth will know what it has done.

View attachment 59998

He doesn't fear God. The only way you can deny day of judgment as Muslims understand it in Quran.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Your interpretations no one one following the Quran and Sunnah will agree with you.

When Allah gathers mankind and all his creations, jinn also animals, that is when EVERYONE will have their taste of justice. It isn't to start a new religion. It isn't about gathering to join in one religion. It is about JUDGEMENT. Of what you have earned on this earth, how you spent your life on this earth...either pleasing your Creator or displeasing Him.

Resurrection of the bodies, means every dead soul that has been gone for centuries will be standing barefoot, naked and uncircumsized in front of their Creator. It is a day of horror for multitudes. A pregnant lady will automatically will miscarry. This day has NOT been done with yet, nor will it say how you are describing it. It is called the Day of Judgement for a reason and that is every single person on this earth will know what it has done.

View attachment 59998

Welcome to that Day, it is our response to the Messages of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is that Judgement.

Allah does as Allah so wills and chooses. The quran offers there is no compulsion in religion, and I see the Judgement expected by men's minds, offer naught but a compulsion.

Regards Tony
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Welcome to that Day, it is our response to the Messages of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is that Judgement.

Allah does as Allah so wills and chooses. The quran offers there is no compulsion in religion, and I see the Judgement expected by men's minds, offer naught but a compulsion.

Regards Tony

Yes Quran says people can follow what they want and people can follow people claiming Mohamad Ali and Imams are gods or been delegated control over God's creation, everyone is free. Everyone can make batini interpretations as many batini sects existed through out history. The freedom is in this world, hell will result if we misinterpret Quran per 3:7 as those with understanding - the believers - follow what is clear from it.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God cannot be seen

Those who don't see God in this world, won't see him in the day of judgment but be blinder to him. They will know he is truth but will be blind to the beauty of God and won't be able to pray to God with sincerity.

The way to see him is through unseen signs and connecting light, which is the Imam of time.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
Welcome to that Day, it is our response to the Messages of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is that Judgement.

Allah does as Allah so wills and chooses. The quran offers there is no compulsion in religion, and I see the Judgement expected by men's minds, offer naught but a compulsion.

Regards Tony

I see from your perspective very confusing. ...but to each his own and will say salam :)

And obey Allah and His Messenger and do not quarrel for then you will be weak in hearts and your power will depart, and be patient; surely Allah is with the patient. Al-Anfal, 8:46
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@InvestigateTruth you don't understand how day of judgment is in reply to the issue of proof and how God has hidden the proof to some degree in this world, but will fully manifest it.

I posted this before:

The Quran contains an explanation to all things. One of these is how it emphasizes on the issue of proof and day of judgment, and why God to some degree hides his proofs. On the day of judgment, the signs of God's Authority there is no room for denial:

لَيْسَ لِوَقْعَتِهَا كَاذِبَةٌ

There is to it's passing no denier.
(56:2)

اسْتَجِيبُوا لِرَبِّكُمْ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ يَوْمٌ لَا مَرَدَّ لَهُ مِنَ اللَّهِ ۚ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ مَلْجَإٍ يَوْمَئِذٍ وَمَا لَكُمْ مِنْ نَكِيرٍ | Respond to your Lord before there comes a day for which there will be no revoking from Allah. On that day you will have no refuge, nor will you able to have denial| Ash-Shura : 47

When the proof is manifest and is forced upon people, their will is no longer sincere, for this reason the Quran says:

إِنَّ السَّاعَةَ آتِيَةٌ أَكَادُ أُخْفِيهَا لِتُجْزَىٰ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ بِمَا تَسْعَىٰ | Indeed the Hour is bound to come: I will have it hidden, so that every soul may be rewarded by what for it strives. | Taa-Haa : 15

The proof is related to the power in the Prophets and Witnesses:

وَقِيلَ مَنْ ۜ رَاقٍ

And it will be said who is the enchanter?


إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَوْمَئِذٍ الْمَسَاقُ

Towards your Lord is the driving

And said:

وَجَاءَتْ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ مَعَهَا سَائِقٌ وَشَهِيدٌ | Every soul will come accompanied by a driver and a witness: | Qaaf : 21

And said:

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ مِنْ كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا ثُمَّ لَا يُؤْذَنُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَلَا هُمْ يُسْتَعْتَبُونَ | The day We shall raise a witness from every nation, the faithless will not be permitted nor will they be asked to propitiate | An-Nahl : 84

And said:

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ ۚ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ | The day We raise in every nation a witness against them from among themselves, We shall bring you as a witness against these (people of your time). We have sent down the Book to you as a clarification of all things and as guidance, mercy and good news for the submitters | An-Nahl : 89

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ ۖ فَمَنْ أُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ يَقْرَءُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلَا يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا | The day We shall summon every group of people along with their Leader, then whoever is given his book in his right hand—they will read it, and they will not be wronged so much as a single date-thread. | Al-Israa : 71


And Mohammad (s) is been called the clear proof:

لَمْ يَكُنِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ وَالْمُشْرِكِينَ مُنْفَكِّينَ حَتَّىٰ تَأْتِيَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَةُ | The faithless from among the People of the Book and the polytheists were not set apart [from the community of the faithful] until the proof had come to them: | Al-Bayyina : 1

رَسُولٌ مِنَ اللَّهِ يَتْلُو صُحُفًا مُطَهَّرَةً | A Messenger from Allah reciting purified scriptures, | Al-Bayyina : 2

And the degree his proof is hidden and manifest, is up to God


وَيَقُولُونَ لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۖ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ لِلَّهِ فَانْتَظِرُوا إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِينَ | They say, ‘Why has not some sign been sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘the hiding (of the sign) is for God. So wait. I too am waiting along with you.’ | Yunus : 20


And hence belief in the hidden is about belief in God's proof and signs:

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ | who believe in the hidden, maintain the prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them; | Al-Baqara : 3

And said:

عَنِ النَّبَإِ الْعَظِيمِ | [Is it] about the Great Tiding, | An-Naba : 2

And regarding reward Mohammad (s) is accused of seeking:

وَلَتَعْلَمُنَّ نَبَأَهُ بَعْدَ حِينٍ | and you will surely learn its tidings in due time.’ | Saad : 88

Which is explained to be:

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُلْ لَا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَنْ يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ | Such is the good news that Allah gives to His servants who have faith and do righteous deeds! Say, ‘I do not ask you any reward for it except the love of the kin.’ Whoever performs a good deed, We shall enhance its goodness for him. Indeed Allah is Forgiving, Appreciative. | Ash-Shura : 23


And hence this love is connected to goodness and faith in God as they are unseen signs of God that God manifests or hides to whatever degree he wishes.

And this is addresses why God hides and manifests proofs, but the question is why miracles in the past and not now?

The Quran says:

وَمَا مَنَعَنَا أَنْ نُرْسِلَ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا أَنْ كَذَّبَ بِهَا الْأَوَّلُونَ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا ثَمُودَ النَّاقَةَ مُبْصِرَةً فَظَلَمُوا بِهَا ۚ وَمَا نُرْسِلُ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا تَخْوِيفًا | Nothing keeps Us from sending signs except if the former people denied them. We gave Thamud the she-camel as an eye-opener, but they wronged her. We do not send the signs except as warning. | Al-Israa : 59

And hence previous generations actions have caused the situation in which the Guide who can perform such signs is hidden:

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۗ إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ ۖ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ | The faithless say, ‘Why has not some sign revealed regarding him from his Lord?’ You are only a warner, and there is a guide for every people. | Ar-Ra'd : 7

And God says:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ | Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is a niche wherein is a lamp—the lamp is in a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star—lit from a blessed olive tree, neither eastern nor western, whose oil almost lights up, though fire should not touch it. Light upon light. Allah guides to His Light whomever He wishes. Allah draws parables for mankind, and Allah has knowledge of all things. | An-Noor : 35

فِي بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ اللَّهُ أَنْ تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ فِيهَا بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالْآصَالِ | In houses Allah has allowed to be raised and wherein His Name is celebrated; He is glorified therein, morning and evening, | An-Noor : 36

رِجَالٌ لَا تُلْهِيهِمْ تِجَارَةٌ وَلَا بَيْعٌ عَنْ ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ وَإِقَامِ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءِ الزَّكَاةِ ۙ يَخَافُونَ يَوْمًا تَتَقَلَّبُ فِيهِ الْقُلُوبُ وَالْأَبْصَارُ |Men whom neither trade nor bargaining distracts from the remembrance of Allah and the maintenance of prayer and the giving of zakat. They are fearful of a day wherein the hearts and the sights will be transformed, | An-Noor : 37

And said:

فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالنُّورِ الَّذِي أَنْزَلْنَا ۚ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرٌ | So have faith in Allah and His Apostle and the light, which We have revealed, and Allah is well aware of what you do. | At-Taghaabun : 8


Thus the philosophy of hiding and manifesting is explained in Quran. God's proof is always here, but to what degree he is hidden or manifest, is up to God. Right now there is no miracles in the open, but that's because of what previous generations did with them and oppressed the followers who believed in them.

I find that it's a major sign of Quran being from God, about how much it emphasized on the issue of proof, to what degree God manifests or hides it, and for what reasons. It shows God is aware people want proof.

Concerning the sky reality where is the light of God and spiritual lights, Quran also said:

وَإِنْ كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الْأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاءِ فَتَأْتِيَهُمْ بِآيَةٍ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَىٰ ۚ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ | And should their aversion be hard on you, find, if you can, a tunnel into the ground, or a ladder into sky, that you may bring them a sign. Had Allah wished, He would have brought them together on guidance. So do not be one of the ignorant. | Al-An'aam : 35


This shows if Mohammad (s) can connect people to this reality, he would, but it's not his fault people turn away.

Surah Hijr expands on why he doesn't connect them:

وَلَوْ فَتَحْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ بَابًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَظَلُّوا فِيهِ يَعْرُجُونَ | Were We to open for them a gate of the sky, so that they could go on ascending through it, | Al-Hijr : 14

لَقَالُوا إِنَّمَا سُكِّرَتْ أَبْصَارُنَا بَلْ نَحْنُ قَوْمٌ مَسْحُورُونَ | they would surely say, ‘Indeed a spell has been cast on our eyes; indeed, we are a bewitched lot.’ | Al-Hijr : 15

وَلَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا فِي السَّمَاءِ بُرُوجًا وَزَيَّنَّاهَا لِلنَّاظِرِينَ | Certainly We have made great stars in the sky and adorned them for the onlookers, | Al-Hijr : 16

وَحَفِظْنَاهَا مِنْ كُلِّ شَيْطَانٍ رَجِيمٍ | and We have guarded it from every outcast Satan, | Al-Hijr : 17

إِلَّا مَنِ اسْتَرَقَ السَّمْعَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ مُبِينٌ | except someone who may eavesdrop, whereat there pursues him a manifest flame. | Al-Hijr : 18


And this returns to the issue of why proof is not forced upon people:

قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُ عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّي وَآتَانِي رَحْمَةً مِنْ عِنْدِهِ فَعُمِّيَتْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَنُلْزِمُكُمُوهَا وَأَنْتُمْ لَهَا كَارِهُونَ | He said, ‘O my people! Tell me, should I stand on a manifest proof from my Lord, and He has granted me His own mercy—though it be that you are blinded to it—shall we force it upon you while you are averse to it? | Hud : 28
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
@InvestigateTruth you don't understand how day of judgment is in reply to the issue of proof and how God has hidden the proof to some degree in this world, but will fully manifest it.

I posted this before:

The Quran contains an explanation to all things. One of these is how it emphasizes on the issue of proof and day of judgment, and why God to some degree hides his proofs. On the day of judgment, the signs of God's Authority there is no room for denial:

لَيْسَ لِوَقْعَتِهَا كَاذِبَةٌ

There is to it's passing no denier.
(56:2)

اسْتَجِيبُوا لِرَبِّكُمْ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ يَوْمٌ لَا مَرَدَّ لَهُ مِنَ اللَّهِ ۚ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ مَلْجَإٍ يَوْمَئِذٍ وَمَا لَكُمْ مِنْ نَكِيرٍ | Respond to your Lord before there comes a day for which there will be no revoking from Allah. On that day you will have no refuge, nor will you able to have denial| Ash-Shura : 47

When the proof is manifest and is forced upon people, their will is no longer sincere, for this reason the Quran says:

إِنَّ السَّاعَةَ آتِيَةٌ أَكَادُ أُخْفِيهَا لِتُجْزَىٰ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ بِمَا تَسْعَىٰ | Indeed the Hour is bound to come: I will have it hidden, so that every soul may be rewarded by what for it strives. | Taa-Haa : 15

The proof is related to the power in the Prophets and Witnesses:

وَقِيلَ مَنْ ۜ رَاقٍ

And it will be said who is the enchanter?


إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَوْمَئِذٍ الْمَسَاقُ

Towards your Lord is the driving

And said:

وَجَاءَتْ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ مَعَهَا سَائِقٌ وَشَهِيدٌ | Every soul will come accompanied by a driver and a witness: | Qaaf : 21

And said:

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ مِنْ كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا ثُمَّ لَا يُؤْذَنُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَلَا هُمْ يُسْتَعْتَبُونَ | The day We shall raise a witness from every nation, the faithless will not be permitted nor will they be asked to propitiate | An-Nahl : 84

And said:

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ ۚ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ | The day We raise in every nation a witness against them from among themselves, We shall bring you as a witness against these (people of your time). We have sent down the Book to you as a clarification of all things and as guidance, mercy and good news for the submitters | An-Nahl : 89

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ ۖ فَمَنْ أُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ يَقْرَءُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلَا يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا | The day We shall summon every group of people along with their Leader, then whoever is given his book in his right hand—they will read it, and they will not be wronged so much as a single date-thread. | Al-Israa : 71


And Mohammad (s) is been called the clear proof:

لَمْ يَكُنِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ وَالْمُشْرِكِينَ مُنْفَكِّينَ حَتَّىٰ تَأْتِيَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَةُ | The faithless from among the People of the Book and the polytheists were not set apart [from the community of the faithful] until the proof had come to them: | Al-Bayyina : 1

رَسُولٌ مِنَ اللَّهِ يَتْلُو صُحُفًا مُطَهَّرَةً | A Messenger from Allah reciting purified scriptures, | Al-Bayyina : 2

And the degree his proof is hidden and manifest, is up to God


وَيَقُولُونَ لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۖ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ لِلَّهِ فَانْتَظِرُوا إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِينَ | They say, ‘Why has not some sign been sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘the hiding (of the sign) is for God. So wait. I too am waiting along with you.’ | Yunus : 20


And hence belief in the hidden is about belief in God's proof and signs:

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ | who believe in the hidden, maintain the prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them; | Al-Baqara : 3

And said:

عَنِ النَّبَإِ الْعَظِيمِ | [Is it] about the Great Tiding, | An-Naba : 2

And regarding reward Mohammad (s) is accused of seeking:

وَلَتَعْلَمُنَّ نَبَأَهُ بَعْدَ حِينٍ | and you will surely learn its tidings in due time.’ | Saad : 88

Which is explained to be:

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُلْ لَا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَنْ يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ | Such is the good news that Allah gives to His servants who have faith and do righteous deeds! Say, ‘I do not ask you any reward for it except the love of the kin.’ Whoever performs a good deed, We shall enhance its goodness for him. Indeed Allah is Forgiving, Appreciative. | Ash-Shura : 23


And hence this love is connected to goodness and faith in God as they are unseen signs of God that God manifests or hides to whatever degree he wishes.

And this is addresses why God hides and manifests proofs, but the question is why miracles in the past and not now?

The Quran says:

وَمَا مَنَعَنَا أَنْ نُرْسِلَ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا أَنْ كَذَّبَ بِهَا الْأَوَّلُونَ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا ثَمُودَ النَّاقَةَ مُبْصِرَةً فَظَلَمُوا بِهَا ۚ وَمَا نُرْسِلُ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا تَخْوِيفًا | Nothing keeps Us from sending signs except if the former people denied them. We gave Thamud the she-camel as an eye-opener, but they wronged her. We do not send the signs except as warning. | Al-Israa : 59

And hence previous generations actions have caused the situation in which the Guide who can perform such signs is hidden:

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۗ إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ ۖ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ | The faithless say, ‘Why has not some sign revealed regarding him from his Lord?’ You are only a warner, and there is a guide for every people. | Ar-Ra'd : 7

And God says:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ | Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is a niche wherein is a lamp—the lamp is in a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star—lit from a blessed olive tree, neither eastern nor western, whose oil almost lights up, though fire should not touch it. Light upon light. Allah guides to His Light whomever He wishes. Allah draws parables for mankind, and Allah has knowledge of all things. | An-Noor : 35

فِي بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ اللَّهُ أَنْ تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ فِيهَا بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالْآصَالِ | In houses Allah has allowed to be raised and wherein His Name is celebrated; He is glorified therein, morning and evening, | An-Noor : 36

رِجَالٌ لَا تُلْهِيهِمْ تِجَارَةٌ وَلَا بَيْعٌ عَنْ ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ وَإِقَامِ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءِ الزَّكَاةِ ۙ يَخَافُونَ يَوْمًا تَتَقَلَّبُ فِيهِ الْقُلُوبُ وَالْأَبْصَارُ |Men whom neither trade nor bargaining distracts from the remembrance of Allah and the maintenance of prayer and the giving of zakat. They are fearful of a day wherein the hearts and the sights will be transformed, | An-Noor : 37

And said:

فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالنُّورِ الَّذِي أَنْزَلْنَا ۚ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرٌ | So have faith in Allah and His Apostle and the light, which We have revealed, and Allah is well aware of what you do. | At-Taghaabun : 8


Thus the philosophy of hiding and manifesting is explained in Quran. God's proof is always here, but to what degree he is hidden or manifest, is up to God. Right now there is no miracles in the open, but that's because of what previous generations did with them and oppressed the followers who believed in them.

I find that it's a major sign of Quran being from God, about how much it emphasized on the issue of proof, to what degree God manifests or hides it, and for what reasons. It shows God is aware people want proof.

Concerning the sky reality where is the light of God and spiritual lights, Quran also said:

وَإِنْ كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الْأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاءِ فَتَأْتِيَهُمْ بِآيَةٍ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَىٰ ۚ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ | And should their aversion be hard on you, find, if you can, a tunnel into the ground, or a ladder into sky, that you may bring them a sign. Had Allah wished, He would have brought them together on guidance. So do not be one of the ignorant. | Al-An'aam : 35


This shows if Mohammad (s) can connect people to this reality, he would, but it's not his fault people turn away.

Surah Hijr expands on why he doesn't connect them:

وَلَوْ فَتَحْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ بَابًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَظَلُّوا فِيهِ يَعْرُجُونَ | Were We to open for them a gate of the sky, so that they could go on ascending through it, | Al-Hijr : 14

لَقَالُوا إِنَّمَا سُكِّرَتْ أَبْصَارُنَا بَلْ نَحْنُ قَوْمٌ مَسْحُورُونَ | they would surely say, ‘Indeed a spell has been cast on our eyes; indeed, we are a bewitched lot.’ | Al-Hijr : 15

وَلَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا فِي السَّمَاءِ بُرُوجًا وَزَيَّنَّاهَا لِلنَّاظِرِينَ | Certainly We have made great stars in the sky and adorned them for the onlookers, | Al-Hijr : 16

وَحَفِظْنَاهَا مِنْ كُلِّ شَيْطَانٍ رَجِيمٍ | and We have guarded it from every outcast Satan, | Al-Hijr : 17

إِلَّا مَنِ اسْتَرَقَ السَّمْعَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ مُبِينٌ | except someone who may eavesdrop, whereat there pursues him a manifest flame. | Al-Hijr : 18


And this returns to the issue of why proof is not forced upon people:

قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُ عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّي وَآتَانِي رَحْمَةً مِنْ عِنْدِهِ فَعُمِّيَتْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَنُلْزِمُكُمُوهَا وَأَنْتُمْ لَهَا كَارِهُونَ | He said, ‘O my people! Tell me, should I stand on a manifest proof from my Lord, and He has granted me His own mercy—though it be that you are blinded to it—shall we force it upon you while you are averse to it? | Hud : 28

So as per the OP, Is Muhammad the Maitreya?

If not, how does this Prophecy about the Maitreya fit in with Islam?

Regards Tony
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
First of all, we know the traditions that explains who the mehdi will be and his name even! It isn't Bab :) We know what will take place and what will happen. We just haven't seen all the minor signs as of yet. Major ones are the ones that show the Day of Judgement is near. No one knows the hour it will happen. There are sayings about the Mehdi and Mohammad pbuh even said his name and he explained how he will emerge into being. So your "version" is no where coinciding with the Quran or Sunnah. :)
That's what the Jews did too. They rejected Jesus, because they say that they know their traditions and Jesus does not fit.
That's why Prophet Muhammad said, My ummah will follow exactly in the footsteps of Jews and Christians.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Of course most of them reject. That's what make them Christian or Jewish but it has nothing to do with God being deceptive. Some of it has to do with how they corrupted text and interpretation. But it doesn't mean when shown, they can't recognize it.

However, day of judgment has nothing to do with a new Prophet. That interpretation makes God deceptive. This is a big difference. Yours would be God doing sophistry and purposely deceiving people.

Of course, if you guys said Quran was corrupted and there is missing Prophecies, that would put you in a better position. But saying Quran is not corrupted put you in a position that you can't justify your faith. And so your two Prophets couldn't explain seal of Prophets adequately and the day of judgment interpretation was silly and not even needed. It makes you guys look silly for following them too.

Of course we reject Baha'allah like you reject the Maitreya.
But when we reject that person who claims to be Maitreya, it is simple. Because he does not have a Holy Book from God with commandments.
But why do you reject Baha'u'llah? It is because you say Allah cannot reveal another Holy Book after Quran. You are speaking for God!

You also insist thay your literal interpretation of Day of Judgement of the Quran is correct. So, that is very similar to why the Jews rejected Jesus. The Jews say, Torah is complete. No need for another Revelation. They also say Christians distort Torah to fit Jesus.
 
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InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Your interpretations no one one following the Quran and Sunnah will agree with you.

When Allah gathers mankind and all his creations, jinn also animals, that is when EVERYONE will have their taste of justice. It isn't to start a new religion. It isn't about gathering to join in one religion. It is about JUDGEMENT. Of what you have earned on this earth, how you spent your life on this earth...either pleasing your Creator or displeasing Him.

Resurrection of the bodies, means every dead soul that has been gone for centuries will be standing barefoot, naked and uncircumsized in front of their Creator. It is a day of horror for multitudes. A pregnant lady will automatically will miscarry. This day has NOT been done with yet, nor will it say how you are describing it. It is called the Day of Judgement for a reason and that is every single person on this earth will know what it has done.

View attachment 59998
But Allah in Quran verse 3:7 says no one knows its interpretation except God.
So, how can you be so certain that the Muslims understood its interpretation correctly?
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
@InvestigateTruth you don't understand how day of judgment is in reply to the issue of proof and how God has hidden the proof to some degree in this world, but will fully manifest it.

I posted this before:

The Quran contains an explanation to all things. One of these is how it emphasizes on the issue of proof and day of judgment, and why God to some degree hides his proofs. On the day of judgment, the signs of God's Authority there is no room for denial:

لَيْسَ لِوَقْعَتِهَا كَاذِبَةٌ

There is to it's passing no denier.
(56:2)
It means there is no lie on its happening. It means, that certainly Day of Resurrection happens. A more accurate translation is


"There is about its happening no lie"

اسْتَجِيبُوا لِرَبِّكُمْ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ يَوْمٌ لَا مَرَدَّ لَهُ مِنَ اللَّهِ ۚ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ مَلْجَإٍ يَوْمَئِذٍ وَمَا لَكُمْ مِنْ نَكِيرٍ | Respond to your Lord before there comes a day for which there will be no revoking from Allah. On that day you will have no refuge, nor will you able to have denial| Ash-Shura : 47

This means, that, because on that Day, the sinners will be known by their countenance. So, they cannot deny their sin. When they reject the new Revelation (Qaim), just by this act of rejection alone, they are known by God as disbelievers. This is why Quran says on that Day neither man or Spirit shall be asked questions.

When the proof is manifest and is forced upon people, their will is no longer sincere, for this reason the Quran says:

إِنَّ السَّاعَةَ آتِيَةٌ أَكَادُ أُخْفِيهَا لِتُجْزَىٰ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ بِمَا تَسْعَىٰ | Indeed the Hour is bound to come: I will have it hidden, so that every soul may be rewarded by what for it strives. | Taa-Haa : 15

The proof is related to the power in the Prophets and Witnesses:

وَقِيلَ مَنْ ۜ رَاقٍ

And it will be said who is the enchanter?


إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَوْمَئِذٍ الْمَسَاقُ

Towards your Lord is the driving

And said:

وَجَاءَتْ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ مَعَهَا سَائِقٌ وَشَهِيدٌ | Every soul will come accompanied by a driver and a witness: | Qaaf : 21

And said:

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ مِنْ كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا ثُمَّ لَا يُؤْذَنُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَلَا هُمْ يُسْتَعْتَبُونَ | The day We shall raise a witness from every nation, the faithless will not be permitted nor will they be asked to propitiate | An-Nahl : 84
The first verse means, God has hidden the meaning of Hour, because when it happens, it is a test for mankind, and by their response to the Call of God, they will be either punished or rewarded according to their strive to recognize the Qaim.
In another words, God did not say explicitly that the Hour is about the Qaim, a new Revelation, and He did not say explicitly when it is coming, so, that when suddenly He manifests the Qaim, the mankind be tested if they believe or reject Him.


The second verse means that, since in All Holy Books of God, such as Injil, Torah, Avesta as well as Buddhism or Hinduism scriptures, the coming of a Promised One at the Last Period was promised, this serves as a witness, for everyone, if they reject or believe in the what was said in their own Book.
It means no one can have an excuse from those followers.
Remember in Hadithes it is said, the Qaim Judges everyone according to their own Book!
Whenever a person passes away, in the spiritual world of God, he is held responsible for His response to Call of God. Those who did not believe in the Revelation that comes on the Day of judgment will have no excuse in the other world, after their passing.
And said:

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ ۚ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ | The day We raise in every nation a witness against them from among themselves, We shall bring you as a witness against these (people of your time). We have sent down the Book to you as a clarification of all things and as guidance, mercy and good news for the submitters | An-Nahl : 89

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ ۖ فَمَنْ أُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِيَمِينِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ يَقْرَءُونَ كِتَابَهُمْ وَلَا يُظْلَمُونَ فَتِيلًا | The day We shall summon every group of people along with their Leader, then whoever is given his book in his right hand—they will read it, and they will not be wronged so much as a single date-thread. | Al-Israa : 71
These verses are revealed regarding the Qaim according to Hadithes.

And Mohammad (s) is been called the clear proof:

لَمْ يَكُنِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ وَالْمُشْرِكِينَ مُنْفَكِّينَ حَتَّىٰ تَأْتِيَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَةُ | The faithless from among the People of the Book and the polytheists were not set apart [from the community of the faithful] until the proof had come to them: | Al-Bayyina : 1
Yes.
رَسُولٌ مِنَ اللَّهِ يَتْلُو صُحُفًا مُطَهَّرَةً | A Messenger from Allah reciting purified scriptures, | Al-Bayyina : 2
We talked about this verse.

And the degree his proof is hidden and manifest, is up to God


وَيَقُولُونَ لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۖ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ لِلَّهِ فَانْتَظِرُوا إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِينَ | They say, ‘Why has not some sign been sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘the hiding (of the sign) is for God. So wait. I too am waiting along with you.’ | Yunus : 20


And hence belief in the hidden is about belief in God's proof and signs:

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ | who believe in the hidden, maintain the prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them; | Al-Baqara : 3

And said:

عَنِ النَّبَإِ الْعَظِيمِ | [Is it] about the Great Tiding, | An-Naba : 2

عَنِ النَّبَإِ الْعَظِيمِ

The great announcement is Manifestation of Baha'u'llah in our view.

"Likewise, in the Qur’án He saith: “Of what ask they of one another? Of the Great Announcement.” This is the Announcement, the greatness of which hath been mentioned in most of the Books of old and of more recent times. This is the Announcement that hath caused the limbs of mankind to quake, except such as God, the Protector, the Helper, the Succorer, hath willed to exempt. Men have indeed with their own eyes witnessed how all men and all things have been thrown into confusion and been sore perplexed, save those whom God hath chosen to exempt."
Baha'u'llah
 
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