Salam Tony,
God bless you brother, may we be united with who God favored (his religion to humanity) upon and not disconnect from them and drink of the rivers of honey and milk by their hands, in this world and next.
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Question to Bahais. The Maitreya.
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God bless you brother, may we be united with who God favored (his religion to humanity) upon and not disconnect from them and drink of the rivers of honey and milk by their hands, in this world and next.
Salam
The world was not ready to embrace the Kingdom of God on earth, as it is in Heaven Link. It will not happen now until some time in the more distant future.
This is also the promise of the Maitreya.
That kingdom is available and operational all around the world.
All the best, Regards Tony
Salam
I believe there is two ways Imam Mahdi (a) can appear (a lot more but this summary of the ways under these two ways). When a lot of the world is ready (1), and the transition is easy to justice, in this case. The world is not ready (2), hardly anyone, but injustice is too much and God needs to deliver believers from their oppressors or save the oppressed (if hardly any believers left).
The Ghayba and warnings of Quran, is because, we were and are still heading towards a disaster warning in the Quran pertaining to the Mahdi. That the cities and most humans be destroyed.
This final test, we want the world to accept the Mahdi but it might not happen. It might be like what happened to Nuh's (a) people but on a world scale.
This is why God is delaying. He doesn't want the warnings pertaining to destroyed cities to take place. He warns and is giving us time to head the warnings.
I hope Imam Mahdi (a) comes on good terms. Now there is a lot of middle ground between these two, and there is also best results possible, but what I mean, is the warnings we are trying to avoid them.
But the warnings if they come about, there will be no return to dignity to humans after. The believers will be saved but humanity would have over all failed the test. Then there is the tests of how believers stay steadfast after and how long that lasts... God help us not repeat the same mistakes.
We need to learn from the past.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
What I understand, the Quran itself confirms that God's revelations came in different ways to different Messengers.
For example, to Moses God spoke directly. When we read Torah, in it, God is speaking directly to Moses. Revelations of Muhammad appears as an angel brings Revelations from God to Muhammad.
Gospel is different than both. It is a collection of words or teachings of Jesus, spoken to apostles.
Bahaullah's writings are a collection of Tablets.
This unnamed Messenger in 98:2-3 is a Messenger who recites Tablets or Pages as the Quran itself says.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
In several occasions the Prophet hinted that Day of Resurrection is very near, as we can see in the recorded traditions and the Quran.
"Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up),- (Yet shall ye be raised up)!" then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be it will be quite soon" 17:51
"I was sent to you at a time when the Last Day is very close like these two fingers." Hadith
Now consider that from the time of Moses to time of Jesus was more than 1500 years. From Jesus to Muhammad was 600 years.
If we say that the Day of Resurrection has not come after more than 1400 years, we would be ascribing a lie to Quran and Muhammad, as they said, it was quite near.
Moreover, it is said in Hadithes that even if One Day has remained till End of world God will send the Mahdi. if we think, Mahdi comes near the end of World, meaning that after End, there is no more life on earth, isn't that illogical? . Why I am saying it would be illogical? Because According to many Traditions, Mahdi comes to establish True Religion. He comes to fill the earth with Justiice and knowledge. What is the benefit of all of that, if only One day is left to the End of World?
Now, consider that even the Imams have said in many occasions that Day of Resurrection is that same Day of Rise of Qaim.
What should we do with these illogical problems with the idea that End of World means literally End of World, and still after 1400 years Judgement Day has not come, though the Quran says, it is very near? More importantly what is the point if Mahdi comes when the next Day could be End of the World, as Hadithes say?
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Thats great. Thanks.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Where is this Maitreya promise recorded as "The world was not ready to embrace the Kingdom of God on earth, as it is in Heaven"?
The promise was recorded, logically, as it was not embraced, the world was not ready.
ANOTHER BUDDHA WILL ARISE
He made it clear that He was about to pass away, and when [His cousin and foremost disciple] Ananda became disconsolate, Buddha consoled him and said:
'Have I not formerly declared to you that it is in the very nature of all things near and dear to us, to pass away? O Ananda, seeing that whatever is brought into being contains within itself the inherent necessity of dissolution, how can it be that such a being (as the visible Siddhartha) should not be dissolved?'He informed Ananda that in another three months He would pass away. Ananda, suppressing his tears, said to the Blessed One:'Who shall teach us when Thou art gone?'And the Blessed One replied:...'I am not the first Buddha Who came upon this earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a Master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach to you His religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal, in spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.' His disciples will number many thousands, while Mine number many hundreds.'
Ananda said,
'How shall we know Him?'The Blessed One replied:'He will be known as Maitreya, which means He Whose name is "kindness.'"
(Note: As you may already know, Baha'u'llah's given name, Husayn, is Arabic for "kindness)
A disciple asked Buddha,
"Is not Amitabha, the Infinite Light of Revelation, the Source of innumerable miracles?"And the Blessed One replied:"Amitabha, the Unbounded Light, is the Source of Wisdom, of virtue, of Buddhahood. The deeds of sorcerers and miracle mongers are frauds, but what is more wondrous, more mysterious, more miraculous than Amitabha?"- (Sanskrit: “Infinite Light”)
"But Master," continued the disciple, "is the promise of the happy region vain talk and a myth?"
"What is this promise?" asked Buddha, and the disciple replied,
"There is in the West a Paradisian country called the Holy Land, exquisitely adorned with gold and silver and precious gems. There are pure waters with golden sands, surrounded by pleasant walks covered with large lotus flowers. Joyous music is heard, and flowers rain down three times a day. There are singing birds whose harmonious notes proclaim the praises of religion and in the minds of those who listen to their sweet sounds, remembrance arises of the Buddha, the law and the brotherhood. No evil birth is possible there, and even the name of hell is unknown. He who fervently and with a pious mind repeats the words 'Amitabha Buddha' will be transformed to the happy region of this holy land, and when death draws near, Buddha with His saintly followers will stand before him, and there will be perfect tranquility."
"In truth," said Buddha, "there is such a happy paradise. But the country is spiritual and is accessible only to those that are spiritual. You say it lies in the West. This means look for it where He Who enlightens the world resides."
"Your description," Buddha continued, "is beautiful; yet it is insufficient and does little justice to the glory of the Holy Land. The worldly can speak of it in a worldly way only, they use worldly similes and worldly words. But the Holy Land in which the holy live is more beautiful than you can say or imagine. However, the repetition of the name 'Amitabha Buddha' is meritorious only if you speak it with such devout attitude of mind as will cleanse your heart and attune your will to do works of righteousness. He only can reach the happy land whose soul is filled with the Infinite Light of Truth. He only can live and breathe in the spiritual atmosphere of the Western Paradise who has attained enlightenment."
Further, Buddha stated,
"A true follower of the Tathagata (a title of Buddha meaning 'He Who has thus come') does not found his trust on austerities and rituals but, giving up the idea of self, relies with his whole heart upon Amitabha, which is the unbounded light of truth."
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Absolutely false. There is no indication in the Qur'an "how near". This is just some absurd assumption based creation of yours.
Why not stop making stuff up, and truly read the Quran in full. Try to stop cherry picking and making post hoc justifications that is simply painting the bulls eye and then placing your arrow in the middle and saying "Bwala. We nailed it".
Go back and read the Qur'an fully, from A to Z.
firedragon
Veteran Member
That does not say anything about "The world was not ready to embrace the Kingdom of God on earth, as it is in Heaven"
Tony. Thats just made up.
Quote scripture.
Where is "Kingdom of God" in it?
This is just fabrication mate. Why do you guys seriously make false claims like this?
Quote me anywhere in the Tipitaka where there is anything about a "Kingdom of God". Unless otherwise you can quote directly, this is just false.
You misunderstood my post you asked that question of, as such I replied in the light of my answer from that post. Both Jesus and the Maitreya, to me promised the same thing, a Kingdom that embraces our Oneness.
The world has not yet embraced that Oneness.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Thats not what you said Tony. You said "The world was not ready to embrace the Kingdom of God on earth, as it is in Heaven".
Where did the so called "Maitreya" claim this? Please do quote.
If you made a mistake, that's fine. Because I have no doubt, this is not in the Tipitaka. Thus, I would like to know if you made a mistake or if its really there somewhere and where that is.
Hope you understand.
My point was you mentioned fast revelation as a proof, to me, the opposite, it would be more of a proof if if it was revealed over a long period of time like Mohammad (s) and not flow chronologically but revealed all over the place, yet, comes together.
The line "even if...." doesn't imply there is any realistic expectation of it. It's exaggerated prose, that no matter what, Allah (swt) will send the Mahdi (a) before day of judgment.
Our prayers regarding Imam Mahdi (a), some of them, we pray he lives a long time after the victory as well.
As for day of judgment, the verse says it might be close. And this is because like I said the timing of how long of Imam Mahdi (a) will live after victory depends on state of humans. If we turn ungrateful after victory and rebel against him, it will be that day of judgment approaches faster.
With them rebelling against Mohammad (s), it may have caused the hour to draw near. This is because if Mecca was destroyed by God and other cities as well, and other cities the more he warns, then hour would become close.
But what happened was Mohammad (s) became victorious, so the world was given respite longer and time to prepare for the Mahdi (A). This also because of his Ahlulbayt (a) firmly establishing the truth.
فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَقُلْ آذَنْتُكُمْ عَلَىٰ سَوَاءٍ ۖ وَإِنْ أَدْرِي أَقَرِيبٌ أَمْ بَعِيدٌ مَا تُوعَدُونَ | But if they turn away, say, ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether what you have been promised is far or near. | Al-Anbiyaa : 109
وَإِنْ أَدْرِي لَعَلَّهُ فِتْنَةٌ لَكُمْ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَىٰ حِينٍ | I do not know—maybe it is a trial for you and an enjoyment for a while.’ | Al-Anbiyaa : 111
That is we didn't know. And it's easy to look at the long time now in Ghayba, but this too was unpredictable. Free-will makes it all unpredictable.
Also, the Mahdi (a) is delayed because Allah (swt) does not want to destroy a lot of cities when it can be still avoided:
وَإِذَا أَرَدْنَا أَنْ نُهْلِكَ قَرْيَةً أَمَرْنَا مُتْرَفِيهَا فَفَسَقُوا فِيهَا فَحَقَّ عَلَيْهَا الْقَوْلُ فَدَمَّرْنَاهَا تَدْمِيرًا | And when We desire to destroy a town We command its affluent ones [to obey Allah]. But they commit transgression in it, and so the word becomes due against it, and We destroy it utterly. | Al-Israa : 16
وَإِنْ مِنْ قَرْيَةٍ إِلَّا نَحْنُ مُهْلِكُوهَا قَبْلَ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ أَوْ مُعَذِّبُوهَا عَذَابًا شَدِيدًا ۚ كَانَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْكِتَابِ مَسْطُورًا | There is not a town but We will destroy it before the Day of Resurrection, or punish it with a severe punishment. That has been written in the Book. | Al-Israa : 58
Meaning not a town if it disobeys God when the Mahdi (a) comes.
Many things are written, but can be unwritten, as God says:
وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلًا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُمْ أَزْوَاجًا وَذُرِّيَّةً ۚ وَمَا كَانَ لِرَسُولٍ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ بِآيَةٍ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۗ لِكُلِّ أَجَلٍ كِتَابٌ | Certainly We have sent apostles before you, and We appointed for them wives and descendants; and an apostle may not bring a sign except by Allah’s leave. There is a book for every term: | Ar-Ra'd : 38
يَمْحُو اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ وَيُثْبِتُ ۖ وَعِنْدَهُ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ | Allah effaces and confirms whatever He wishes and with Him is the Mother Book. | Ar-Ra'd : 39
Salam
It's okay brother. He's been taught to think in a bias way, as a Bahai. We can help him see the truth.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Well, then you think when Allah said judgement Day might be near, He doesn't really mean that, even the Hadith confirms that.
Moreover, the Muslims are told by their scholars that the reason there is no need for another Holy Book or Revelation is because, Muhammad is so close to end of the world, so, there is no need to have another Revelation.
From time of Jesus to Muhammad was 600 years. It means Allah has been sending Revelations, or Holy Books every 1000 years, (more or less).
So, if after 1400 years, no Prophet, no Revelation has come, how is that justified?
فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَقُلْ آذَنْتُكُمْ عَلَىٰ سَوَاءٍ ۖ وَإِنْ أَدْرِي أَقَرِيبٌ أَمْ بَعِيدٌ مَا تُوعَدُونَ | But if they turn away, say, ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether what you have been promised is far or near. | Al-Anbiyaa : 109
Seems you misunderstood it. Man up and admit.
And brother I've explained to you why it's justified. It has to do with delay of God's punishment of towns and cities. This is the last Book and Mohammad's (s) is a Messenger to all humans all together, if we reject the Mahdi, there will be consequences.
The Mahdi (a) is delayed for sake of God's mercy, He is giving us time to prepare.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
If we read the Quran, we see it actually alluded how near it is:
"He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon" 32:5
He directeth ordinances means, sending down guidance. Then it has a life span of 1000 years. After that the ordinances does up again, meaning God, will take back, what He gave. Because He brings a new Revelation instead.
This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with ascension on the day of judgment. You are mixing everything up because you got nothing.
فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَقُلْ آذَنْتُكُمْ عَلَىٰ سَوَاءٍ ۖ وَإِنْ أَدْرِي أَقَرِيبٌ أَمْ بَعِيدٌ مَا تُوعَدُونَ | But if they turn away, say, ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether what you have been promised is far or near. | Al-Anbiyaa : 109