Question to Bahais. The Maitreya.

[Link]

I offered the Kitab-i-aqdas as proof and you went back to the Kitab-i-iqan, which was written as a reply to the Bab's uncle, before Baha'u'llah declared that he was a Messenger of Allah. Yet it is still one of the greatest books written.

Here is the kitab-i-aqdas, the Most Holy Book. It is as the Quran is.

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

Salam

I've read that. I don't find it impressive myself. I find for example, Lantern of the Path | Al-Islam.org a better and more eloquent book.

So let alone it compared to Quran.

That's my personal experience.

 

[Link]

I would say just by investigating his claims. If he has proofs. I didn't find proofs, and in his biography it is said he was an atheist before, and also, I don't see he even have a book really with any new teachings. It is just a claim at best. Baha'u'llah's writings are 100 volume of Books. So, are the Writings of the Bab are significantly large.
Those witnesses testified that when Baha'u'llah was having revelations, the scribes were not able to keep up with the speed of His words. The Book of Iqan was revealed in just two days!
The same is true about the Bab.

And both Baha'u'llah and the Bab did not really have education in religion.

The Bab was a 25 years old Persian, who was trained as Merchant, but all the sudden when His revelations began, He started writing many Books, with some of them in Arabic, though He did not have any learnings in Arabic.

Bahaullah in Book of Iqan, indicated one the evidence of Truth of the Bab:

"Therefore, should a person arise and bring forth a myriad verses, discourses, epistles, and prayers, none of which have been acquired through learning, what conceivable excuse could justify those that reject them, and deprive themselves of the potency of their grace? What answer could they give when once their soul hath ascended and departed from its gloomy temple? Could they seek to justify
themselves by saying: “We have clung to a certain tradition, and not having beheld the literal fulfillment thereof, we have therefore raised such cavils against the Embodiments of divine Revelation, and kept remote from the law of God”? Hast thou not heard that among the reasons why certain Prophets have been designated as Prophets “endowed with constancy” was the revelation of a Book"
Baha'u'llah, Iqan


This Book of Iqan was written in response to questions of an uncle of the Bab. He had asked Baha'u'llah that how could the Bab be the Qaim when He was killed, whereas the Qaim is suppose to rule.


What is noteworthy here is, the uncle of the Bab, knew the Bab very well, as they were close relatives and lived in the same locality from the Bab's childhood. So, he knew if the Bab had learnings in religion, or if He had studied them before.

So, Baha'u'llah is telling His uncle, that the Bab never studied and did not really have learnings in religion, yet He wrote so many verses. What is noteworthy is, the uncle did not say this is not true. If the Bab had any learnings, His uncle would have known, and rejected the reasong Baha'u'llah was giving him.

Eventually the uncle became a devoted believer and was martyred. A proof that he was a firm believer.

These are signs in our view that distinguishes between a true Qaim and false Prophets

Salam

I think if it was revealed slowly and all over the place, and he had to bring together like Quran, in which it was slowly built over many years and not in chronological order. That would be a sign. Fast speech is easy. Chronologically speaking is easy.

The opposite of what you say happened with Mohammad (s).

 

[Link]

When someone tries to represent someones faith, and they are wrong, that's not a logical point. Its just lack of knowledge.

If I tell you that you being a Muslim is worshiping Hanuman, that's not a logical point. Its just a lack of knowledge.

You misunderstand my point.

 

[firedragon]

In Baha'i thought only the nine I listed above are Manifestations of God.
I think you lost the audience with that question.

What audience? GA. If audience is your aim, like most, you will never gather information properly but only will try to prove you are the greatest because your audience counts.

Have a good day.

 

[firedragon]

You misunderstand my point.

Oh I see. Apologies. I will recap and get back.

 

[Link]

Oh I see. Apologies. I will recap and get back.

It's mainly by use of similar sophistry and arguments Bahais do to us that they would have to accept other people claiming to be Prophets.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree.
So we need some standards.

Hi Link. I always consider you my brother for your love for the Holy Quran and your sincerity. Even in English, the Book of God is so beautiful.

This is something I came across which I thought to share with you.

Dua Baha - Ramadan - Duas.org

 

[Link]

Hi Link. I always consider you my brother for your love for the Holy Quran and your sincerity. Even in English, the Book of God is so beautiful.

This is something I came across which I thought to share with you.

Dua Baha - Ramadan - Duas.org

Salam

This is a prayer from Imam Mohammad Al-Baqir (a). We (Shiites) believe the Imam of time is Baha'alimeen (as stated by Imam Sajjad (a) in Sahifa Sajjadiya) and that the light of the Imam is with all things, including those in the darkness, he is their light.

This is one reason I believe Bahai faith fails. It doesn't understand the mystic nature of light of the Imam and does not have a current Imam.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Salam

This is a prayer from Imam Mohammad Al-Baqir (a). We (Shiites) believe the Imam of time is Baha'alimeen (as stated by Imam Sajjad (a) in Sahifa Sajjadiya) and that the light of the Imam is with all things, including those in the darkness, he is their light.

This is one reason I believe Bahai faith fails. It doesn't understand the mystic nature of light of the Imam and does not have a current Imam.

We believe that the Imams derived their infallibility from Muhammad.

“The guidance vouchsafed to the Imams regarding the laws and institutions of Islam was absolute and unqualified. Their infallibility was derived directly from the Manifestation.”

(Shoghi Effendi)

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Maitreya that Baha’is accept is the One Buddha foretold, not the website you are referring to which has nothing to do with the Baha’i Faith or Baha’u’llah.

Please kindly refer to this site which explains accurate Baha’i beliefs in Maitreya and yes we accept Maitreya as a Rasool Who we believe originally taught the oneness of God.

This is the link I left out. Apologies.

Who is the New Maitreya Buddha?

 

[Link]

We believe that the Imams derived their infallibility from Muhammad.

“The guidance vouchsafed to the Imams regarding the laws and institutions of Islam was absolute and unqualified. Their infallibility was derived directly from the Manifestation.”

(Shoghi Effendi)

Salam

I know, but I'm talking about current time. The light of the world, Jesus (A) says he is that as long as he is here. There is always a connection between heaven and earth, cut off that rope and humanity connection to God dies. In Du'a Nudba this is emphasized, there is always a face of God to turn to God by.

The Imam (a) is that light, whether people recognize it or not.

While there's always times people are unaware of the last sent Messenger or Prophet, they always can connect to the Guide of the time.

The way Quran talks about God's guidance and Guide is that whoever God guides he does so by the Guide of his and whoever he leads astray, has no guide to guide him. For example there was time neither Torah or Gospels or Quran was known in North America, yet they can connect to Mohammad (s) when he was sent because he was their light and spiritual guide.

There is two type of guidance. Tashreei (warning and good news) and than actually pulling and drawing people to God which is Takweeni. Takweeni happens by God's permission while Tashreei is needed on us to heed the teachings and act on them.

The glory of God radiates to every heart through Imam.

Remember Quran has talked about unseen world, Jinn, Angels, and in there a spirit of his command. The spirit of his command per Quran is a light that God guides whoever he wants from his servants. According to hadiths, that spirit was with Mohammad (a) and is with the Imams (a) after him and is greater then Gabriel and Michael and from the Malakut (spiritual kingdom).

The Imams (a) taught about the mystical nature of Imam to prepare for Ghayba as well.

 

[George-ananda]

What audience? GA. If audience is your aim, like most, you will never gather information properly but only will try to prove you are the greatest because your audience counts.

Have a good day.

I'll remember the name 'firedragon' and waste less time on you in the future.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

I know, but I'm talking about current time. The light of the world, Jesus (A) says he is that as long as he is here. There is always a connection between heaven and earth, cut off that rope and humanity connection to God dies. In Du'a Nudba this is emphasized, there is always a face of God to turn to God by.

The Imam (a) is that light, whether people recognize it or not.

While there's always times people are unaware of the last sent Messenger or Prophet, they always can connect to the Guide of the time.

The way Quran talks about God's guidance and Guide is that whoever God guides he does so by the Guide of his and whoever he leads astray, has no guide to guide him. For example there was time neither Torah or Gospels or Quran was known in North America, yet they can connect to Mohammad (s) when he was sent because he was their light and spiritual guide.

There is two type of guidance. Tashreei (warning and good news) and than actually pulling and drawing people to God which is Takweeni. Takweeni happens by God's permission while Tashreei is needed on us to heed the teachings and act on them.

The glory of God radiates to every heart through Imam.

Remember Quran has talked about unseen world, Jinn, Angels, and in there a spirit of his command. The spirit of his command per Quran is a light that God guides whoever he wants from his servants. According to hadiths, that spirit was with Mohammad (a) and is with the Imams (a) after him and is greater then Gabriel and Michael and from the Malakut (spiritual kingdom).

The Imams (a) taught about the mystical nature of Imam to prepare for Ghayba as well.

In our view, it is not like always a Prophet or an Infallible Imam is on earth among people. Once their mission is completed, they leave this world. Their mission is complete revelations. Once the Revelations are written, then people can just read their works and there they have the guidance with them.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

I think if it was revealed slowly and all over the place, and he had to bring together like Quran, in which it was slowly built over many years and not in chronological order. That would be a sign. Fast speech is easy. Chronologically speaking is easy.

The opposite of what you say happened with Mohammad (s).

Allah had revealed only One Book to Muhammad, named the Quran.
Bahaullah was a Messenger that had many Books, as alluded in the Quran

"A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages, containing valuable Books."

Quran 98:2-3

In our view these verses are allusions to Bahaullah who recited pages, and then the pages became 100 Books.
Some Muslim scholars say this verse is about Muhammad, as Quran has many books. But the chapters in Quran are called Surrahs, not Books.

To Prophet Muhammad only one Book was revealed, (not Books)

"And certainly We had brought (to) them a Book which We have explained with knowledge - a guidance and mercy for a people who believe" 7:52

 

[Link]

Allah had revealed only One Book to Muhammad, named the Quran.
Bahaullah was a Messenger that had many Books, as alluded in the Quran

"A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages, containing valuable Books."

Quran 98:2-3

In our view these verses are allusions to Bahaullah who recited pages, and then the pages became 100 Books.
Some Muslim scholars say this verse is about Muhammad, as Quran has many books. But the chapters in Quran are called Surrahs, not Books.

To Prophet Muhammad only one Book was revealed, (not Books)

"And certainly We had brought (to) them a Book which We have explained with knowledge - a guidance and mercy for a people who believe" 7:52

You are ignorant of Arabic. Surahs are each a writing. Writings (plural) together form a writing.

Anyways, I've decided for my sanity. I won't talk to Bahais anymore. I'm done with this dialogue.

 

[Link]

Also Surahs doesn't mean chapter. We say that now, but really it means structure.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You are ignorant of Arabic. Surahs are each a writing. Writings (plural) together form a writing.

Anyways, I've decided for my sanity. I won't talk to Bahais anymore. I'm done with this dialogue.

Ya, Maybe I am ignorant.
Yes, it could be what you say.
Do you know any Hadithes, that explain these two verses?
Are they about Muhammad and Quran according to Hadithes?

 

[Link]

Ya, Maybe I am ignorant.
Yes, it could be what you say.
Do you know any Hadithes, that explain these two verses?
Are they about Muhammad and Quran according to Hadithes?

Then said, ‘And in the report of Abu Al-Jaroud, (It has been narrated) from Abu Jafar (ع) having said:

“(Al-Bayyinah) ‘The Clear Evidence’ is Muhammad (ص).”

Source: 432:2 تفسير القمّي Sharaf Al-Deen Najafy, from Muhammad Bin Khalid Al-Barqy with an unbroken chain from Amro Bin Shimr, from Jabir Bin Yazeed, who says:

“Abu Jafar (ع) regarding the Words of the Mighty and Majestic: ‘A Rasool from Allah’ – meaning Muhammad — ‘reciting pure pages’ [98:2], meaning, he points to the masters of the Command from after him, and they are the Imams, and they are the pure pages.”

And His Words: “Wherein is correct Scripture’ [98:3], meaning with them is the clear Truth.”

Source: 1/829:2 تأويل الآيات (Extract)

Sharaf Al-Deen Najafy, from Ali Bin Asbaat, from Ibn Abu Hamza, from Abu Baseer,

“Abu Abdillah (ع) regarding the Words of the Mighty and Majestic: ‘and that is the correct Religion’ [98:5], he said: “That is the Religion of Al-Qaim [عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف].”

Source: 2/831:2 تأويل الآيات

Sharaf Al-Deen Najafy, from Muhammad Bin Khalid Al-Barqy with an unbroken chain from Amro Bin Shimr, from Jabir Bin Yazeed, who says:

“Abu Jafar (ع) regarding the Words of the Mighty and Majestic: ‘And those Given the Book did not separate’ – meaning those who belied the Shias — ‘except from after the clear evidence had come to them’ [98:4], i.e., from after the Truth had come to them.

And His Words: ‘And they had not been Commanded ‘– these kind (of people) — ‘except that they should be worshipping Allah, being sincere to Him of the Religion’ – and the sincerity, it is the Iman in Allah and His Rasool and the Imam — ‘and they should be establishing the Salat and giving the Zakat’ – and the Salat is Amirul Momineen (ع) Ali Ibn Abi Talib — ‘and that is the correct Religion’ [98:5].””

Source: 1/829:2 تأويل الآيات (Extract)

Ali Al Husayn Al Astarabady – Muhammad Bin Al Abbas reported, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Al Waraq, from Ahmad Bin Ibrahim, from Al Hassan Bin Abu Abdullah, from Mas’ab Bin Salaam, from Abu Hamza Al Sumaly, Abu Jafar (ع), from Jabir Ibn Abdillah having said:

“Rasulullah (ص), during his illness in which he passed away, said: “O Ali! Come near me.” So he went near him. He said: “Bring your ears very close to my mouth.” So he did it. He said: “O my brother! Have you not heard the Words of Allah Mighty and Majestic in His Book: ‘Surely those who believe and are doing righteous deeds, those, they are the best of the Created beings’ [98:7]?”

He said: “Yes.”

Rasulullah (ص) said: “They are you and your Shia. You all will be coming as youths with resplendent faces. Have you not heard the Words of Allah Mighty and Majestic in His Book: ‘Surely those who commit Kufr from the People of the Book and the Polytheists would be in Fire of Hell, being eternally therein. Those, they are the worst of the Created beings’ [98:6]?”

He said: “Yes, O Rasulullah [ص]!” He said: “They are your enemies and enemies of your Shia, who will be coming on the Day of Judgement, with blackened faces, extremely thirsty, miserable, tormented, infidels, hypocrites. That, would be for you and your Shias, and this, would be for your enemies and their adherents.”

Source: Tafseer Abu Hamza Al Sumaly - Hadeeth No. 371

Sharaf Al-Deen Najafy, from Muhammad Bin Khalid Al-Barqy with an unbroken chain from Amro Bin Shimr, from Jabir Bin Yazeed, who says:

“Abu Jafar (ع) regarding the Words of the Mighty and Majestic: ‘Allah being Pleased from them, and they being pleased from Him’ [98:8]: “Allah is Pleased from the Momin in the world and the Hereafter, and the Momin, if he was pleased from Allah, then in his heart would be what is in it, when he sees the in this world scrutinising. Then when he sees the Rewards on the Day of Judgment, he would be pleased from Allah, truthfully as is the right of being pleased, and these are the Words of Allah ‘and they being pleased from Him’ [98:8].

And his Words: ‘That is for one who fears his Lord’ [98:8] – i.e., is obedient to his Lord.”

Source: 1/830:2 تأويل الآيات


This is some ahadith. Anyways, I think I got to stop this.

You are too bias. You don't think with mental clarity.

It's obviously Mohammad (s). And Surahs point to Imams (a) and like they are stated to be the "clear signs" of Quran, they too are the purified pages - that is Surahs are in their hearts and they are what they remind of. In fact, seeing Ahlulbayt (a) and their position in Quran, in many different aspects of Welayat, purifies the heart.

 

[Link]

In our view, it is not like always a Prophet or an Infallible Imam is on earth among people. Once their mission is completed, they leave this world. Their mission is complete revelations. Once the Revelations are written, then people can just read their works and there they have the guidance with them.

Yeah I know. You don't realize the mystical nature and need of an Imam per Quran and ahadith. But that's okay, you are not interested to know what Quran and hadiths both say about this. I know proving it will do nothing, you won't budge.

Reading is good, but, they (writing of Quran and ahadith) call to a reality. That reality is always available for people aware or not aware of the writing type reminder. For example, people who didn't hear about Torah, Gospels and Quran in North America, still had guidance from God and can connect to that light from God and that Guide. So during Mohammad (s) time, he was the light and proof in west and east. Whether people knew of Quran or not. The writing reminders all call the spiritual sky, that sky is filled with lanterns of an Ahlulbayt (a) in all times. The connection in this world to that sky is by an Imam, he is what connects everyone to the sky reality, as Quran has discussed.

Only people who would oppose this type of guidance and think their sights are intoxicated or sorcery is done upon them, won't get this type of guidance. For people who have faith in the unseen signs, they will get guidance in the unseen journey.

Almost all religions from what I know of have at least some sects that call to this reality. The difference is only in who perceive occupies that light right now. There is mystics in all religions that seek the spiritual masters and guides. New Age people might think it's Jinn and that they are the means of light. But Quran says, for pure streams of sustenance of God in power, blessings, and light, to seek intercession of who God has proven.

The intercession of misguided Jinn occurs to their friends, but without God's approval, and it's dirty energy per Quran, light mixed with darkness, and so the energy benefits the people only in this world and sorcerers benefit but only for this world.

Ahlulbayt (a) however are the proper means of ascension.

Every Ahlulbayt of the past calls to the current Ahlulbayt, and so every people can seek their own chosen masters/shamans/guides, and they will call to Mohammad (s) and his family (a).

And so Quran shows anyone who looks towards the malakut for light and guidance, like Ibrahim (a) and his look towards the malakut which took form of a star, then moon, then sun, then annihilation into the light of God, will be guided.

This is the promise from the Ahlulbayt (a), that Prophets (a) will all help and guide towards the Messenger who verifies them all and call to the current guide.

But I'm sure, you don't care what Quran says about this. You just want to search Quran and try to justify Bahai faith. No interest in what it really teaches.

 

[Link]

Salah has an outward form (Muslims all know it well), then has inward form (Ali and his connecting light reality), the latter, is something that you have to reflect over Quran to perceive because Quran being the truth is contingent on this philosophy. It's heart and biggest treasures is about this connecting reality to God which is the leader of the time, the witness, who witnesses all deeds. All holy books call to the light and leader of the time connecting them to God.

The outward ritual can change time to time, perhaps during Musa (a) time, the rituals took on a different form of connecting to God. The inward of those rituals and connecting signs is of course, the Imam of that time and his family are with him in his malakuti sky.

Every religion who emphasized on the outward rituals of connecting to God but disconnected from their inward connection (the Imam of time), count as those who cut off the connection and severed the link.